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Below is an excerpt of the personal profile of a Filipino trans woman who liked me on an online dating site.  It speaks for itself.  If what it says makes you uncomfortable about yourself or your convictions, please don't bother accusing me of making it up because I did not.  Instead go ask a trans woman friend or lover if they like being called or referred to as "ladyboy" as opposed to "transgender/trans woman." 

I playfully was using "sissy" in my mongering-related posts and apparently it bothered several BMs.  So I shall use "trans woman" from now on as to be EDITORIALLY as respectful and considerate as I can.  But I, like most other BMs here and especially the sexpats, will still take advantage of youthful Asian Trans Women's economic hardships to have sex with much younger partners who otherwise would not accept.

Please express your views without personally attacking me or your post will be hoovered.  This is not about me despite me bringing it up.  It's about discussing what several BMs saw as a major ethical issue that made me change my posting ways.  Perhaps they want to change theirs to be even more respectful of the trans women they profess to respect so much ???

Keep Calm and Debate On...

Rom

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Interesting subject!  Rom, You are quoting a highly educated rather woke Filipina.   What term do your partners in the Philippines prefer?

When speaking English, Thai ladies in Pattaya often refer to a black man as Chocolate Man (not sure if they use this term in the Thai language).  No disrespect intended; just descriptive.  One Youtuber even calls himself Chocolate Man.

If you used the term transwoman, you would just get a blank stare from most Thai ladyboys.  I guess it would be interesting to ask them their preferred term both in English and Thai.

 

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The opinion expressed in the OP ain't the opinion of Asian ladyboys. This is just the opinion of one bakla. 
The behaviour is typical of Pinoy ladyboys. Many can't help it, they need to complain. So the generic word ladyboy ain't good enough for this one. We'll keep on using it without her agreement. 10 to 15 years, Pinoy ladyboys seldom had silicone breasts. I never heard or read a message from a Pinoy ladyboy saying she didn't like this word. 
But Pinoy ladyboys enjoy complaining. They often complain of discriminations. I can't say I witnessed such discriminations during my 10 days in the Philippines, I'm aware it must happen, but complaining is used as a lifestyle. I remember an interview of Paris when she lived in Pattaya and sang in a rock group. She was lucky enough to live in Thailand, pretty enough to be a demanded hooker, talented enough to sing in a rock'n roll group with Thai ladyboys. I didn't see her dealong with group dynamic, working together, working hard to reach a result. She just complained of discriminations against ladyboys. The rock'n roll group stoped existing a few months later. 
So what's the matter now ?  Did she find the surgery expensive  ? Does she want to be distinguished from ladyboys who don't have bolts on or from ladyboys who haven't had SRS ?

It seems to me that many Pinoy ladyboys will always bring negative feeling about their status. This reminds me why I decided not to waste my time with them. 
In Vietnam, I found out that ladyboys must have an interview with a shrink before they complete their SRS. The interview consists for the shrink to warn them they won't feel better after the surgeon's final stroke and even 50% of them feel frustrated. I guess we have here a typical case of what they mean.  

 

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One lb's opinion. You would certainly get the blank stare if using the term trans in Thailand. Just another example of a form of woke and an attempt to have a term that for whatever reason they want used rather than the accepted one. I could expand on it but what is the point.

End of story!.

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I found something interesting during my latest visit to Thailand. I encountered a younger (20 year old) postop lb, who told me she preferred to be called a "trans" lady. I had no issues with this and did so. I asked her then what is the difference between a ladyboy and a trans and she said that she felt trans applies to postop lbs. I found this interesting as I haven't had come across this before in Thailand.

However I don't think this is restricted to young vs. old. The term transwoman is being used more often in Thai society as advocacy groups are increasing awareness and education. Also my ex-gf who is 42 is also using the term trans - she has a lot of education and lived outside of Thailand for many years.

There are many Thai ladyboys who don't seem to care about the term, but I think this could change over the future.

If you respect the wishes of your partner (short-time, long -time or really long time), it will make the relationship smoother. No need to be stubborn about a term that we have grown used to.

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I don't know anything about Phillipino lbs/tgs. So I will take what you say about one at face value.

I do know that all the tgs I have met in los refer to themselves as ladyboys, occasionally transgender, but I've never heard them use the term 'trans woman'. But it does sound respectful.

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I am not going to bite any of the baits tossed at me and I agree that "ladyboy" is not offensive to most TH and PH ones, who have more serious things in life to be worried about.

I also agree that when I used "sissy" it was not the most chivalrous thing to do.  And I stopped.  But they will find other stones to cast at me.

What I dont agree AT ALL is 

On 1/7/2023 at 6:22 AM, Woodie said:

You would certainly get the blank stare if using the term trans in Thailand

1110976692_download(7).jpg.aa05d77141865e8b2f280e3f5568e7a7.jpgWRONG and BIASED sir !

google  "Jakrajutatip" and see if a single reference comes up of her being "a ladyboy".  Always respectfully referred to in the mainstream press as "transgender."  If a sexpat farang went up to her and called her a ladyboy he would probably get slapped and be swiftly removed by her security staff.

and therein lies the problem:  "Ladyboy" is derogatory in that it is associated with empoverished, uneducated transgenders many of whom earning a living as prostitutes.   Jakrajutatip is way above that. She gets to be called "transgender".  The poor ones who suck farang cock for 500 baht get to be called "ladyboy".

Those of you who found my use of "sissy" offensive but are not willing to stop calling them "ladyboys" are not as respectful as you could be if you called them "transgender/transwomen".  Are you willing to go all the way in doing the right thing gentlemen?

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6 hours ago, Rom said:

Are you willing to go all the way in doing the right thing gentlemen?

I strive for easy communication given the limited English vocabulary of many bargirls.  So I'll use the word they understand. But I am willing to ask a ladyboy who speaks pretty good English if she prefers to be called a transwoman or ladyboy and see what the response is.

Probably more useful is to ask what words they use in Thai though.

Yes, the highly educated upper class contestant in the Miss Tiffany show will use a term such as transwoman.

In the Philippines once I was asking contest questions to a ladyboy and used the phrase "transexual rights". She was well spoken but confused and considered herself gay.

 

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7 minutes ago, Rom said:

I am not going to bite any of the baits tossed at me and I agree that "ladyboy" is not offensive to most TH and PH ones, who have more serious things in life to be worried about.

I also agree that when I used "sissy" it was not the most chivalrous thing to do.  And I stopped.  But they will find other stones to cast at me.

What I dont agree AT ALL is 

1110976692_download(7).jpg.aa05d77141865e8b2f280e3f5568e7a7.jpgWRONG and OUT OF TOUCH sir !

google  "Jakrajutatip" and see if a single reference comes up of her being "a ladyboy".  Always respectfully referred to in the mainstream press as "transgender."  If a sexpat farang went up to her and called her a ladyboy he would probably get slapped and be swiftly removed by her security staff.

and therein lies the problem:  "Ladyboy" is derogatory in that it is associated with empoverished, uneducated transgenders many of whom earning a living as prostitutes.   Jakrajutatip is way above that. She gets to be called "transgender".  The poor ones who suck farang cock for 500 baht get to be called "ladyboy".

Those of you who found my use of "sissy" offensive but are not willing to stop calling them "ladyboys" are not as respectful as you could be if you called them "transgender/transwomen".  Are you willing to go all the way in doing the right thing gentlemen?

Once again Rom, it is your opinion. Never been slapped as you say for using the term ladyboy. MY opinion is that to use the term transgender is to be bowing to the woke types who think they can force people to use the term they want to use. Doesn't work that way. We have not all been wokerised or whatever term is invented in the USA.

I will continue to call them what I regard as being appropriate.

I still haven't worked out what term to use for ladyboys without boobs/ Dont like the term 'sissy". It classes them as being something different from lbs that have spent a lot of money to have two bags of silicone attached. That as far as I can tell is the only difference!. Of course the other form is the "postop", now there we have a whole new kettle of fish.

Your last sentence is being high and mighty to the enth degree. I dont think you have the right to ask anyone to do what you think is the right thing. Have you considered that it may not be "the right thing".

Just something for you to ponder on.

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5 minutes ago, Woodie said:

MY opinion is that to use the term transgender is to be bowing to the woke types who think they can force people to use the term they want to use.

If a ladyboy requests to be called a transwoman that's not a unreasonable request IMO.  

But requesting farang to use English words that won't be understood by the prostitutes that they associate with won't work for either most guys or most prostitutes. 

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26 minutes ago, Woodie said:

I will continue to call them what I regard as being appropriate.

As far as I am concerned, you have the right to.  Only wish you and the other BMs would also allow me such right.

"Sissy" was a great term for me to use because it captured the dimension of boyish submissiveness I tried to convey in my posts of encounters with youthful transgender women.  And as you just saw using "youthful transgender women" does not quite work does it to project monger's mischief and bravado like I try to? ... When a creative writer can't use the words of his choice, his writings will be impaired, emasculated even, and eventually he will loose motivation to write...

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Not trolling soju.  I am perhaps steering some BMs to look themselves in the mirror.  If they don't like what they see don't take it out on me...

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2 hours ago, Rom said:

Only wish you and the other BMs

As far as I am aware, I don't think I have complained about your use of the term sissy. I personally don't like it and never have. I stated this in my last post as I don't see the difference, apart from them not having boobs. They still fuck BM's. (sounds brutal doesn't it?). I was trying to think of another term which doesn't separate them from their silicone enhanced "sisters".

Perhaps there is no need to have another word. They can just be lbs, or as Rom calls them ,trans.

My long term ex gf went from being boobless to having a great pair of silicones. I don't think I thought anymore of her because of them. I certainly never called her a sissy before the addition.

We can get pedantic about terminology but in the end it does not matter a shit!.

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3 minutes ago, Woodie said:

I was trying to think of another term which doesn't separate them from their silicone enhanced "sisters".

On 'another' lb forum the younger ones without implants were often referred to as 'femboys'. But the girls themselves don't recognise this term and call themselves ladyboy.

And many will tell you if you ask that they always knew they were ladyboy from when they were quite young.

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On 1/6/2023 at 11:03 PM, Rom said:

Please express your views without personally attacking me or your post will be hoovered. 

It said it in the OP.  No exceptions.

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I'll try to bring the discussion back on track:

Pdoggg mentioned the "Miss Tiffany" Universe pageant, which is a great place to look for an answer as it is THEEE gold standard for ALL Thai transgender women, from the prosties we chase to those who are not.

So I looked at their official Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/MissTiffanyUniverse/?ref=page_internal)  Much of it is in Thai but the English bits not once mention the word "ladyboy."  I repeat: not once.  This is how they present themselves:

Miss Tiffany's Universe - The Biggest & Most Well-Respected Beauty Pageant for Thai Transvestites &   Transgender Organised by Tiffany's Show Pattaya Co.,Ltd

Now this does not mean they consider the word "ladyboy" derogatory or offensive.  But it sure indicates they avoid using it.  Should those of you so concerned with being as respectful as possible when referring to Thai transwomen also avoid using "ladyboy" ?

But before you decide, there is more:

The online consensus when you google whether "ladyboy" is derogatory is that it is not entirely kosher but the Thai transgender don't mind the tourists using it.  Here is a balanced assessment I found:

Ladyboy, kathoey or transvestite?

‘Ladyboy’ is a term that is used by tourists for a transgendered man – one that dresses and behaves like a woman. In Europe we call them transvestites or transgenders. Thais use another word – ‘kathoey’ – which comes from Khmer language and means a boy that is also a lady – a ladyboy. The word ‘kahtoey’ is also used to distinguish a transgendered man from men and women. That’s why most of the Thai society perceives ladyboys as a third gender. Many kathoeys prefer this name as they think ‘ladyboy’ is slightly disrespectful.

Other more critical internet assessments say "ladyboy" is primarily associated to the foreign-geared sex industry (as we all know so well!) and therefore it is disrespectful, especially when used by the foreigners who avail themselves of prostitutes (us!!!).

 

TO CONCLUDE:   As we saw gentlemen from the reactions posted, nobody likes to be told what words they should use or not.  But those of you who were so readily offended by me using "sissy" are not so ready to stop using your preferred designations in favor of more respectful ones.

 

GOING FORWARD:  Like those of you who stuck by your guns, I also reserve myself the right to use whatever designations I choose including "sissies"  and "ladyboys".  But for the foreseeble future, I will stick with "trans".  I think I am doing every BM here a favor when I use it because "ladyboy" is only going to become potentially more and more sensitive like the word "negro" became in America to the point that even though it is not a bad word everyone avoids using it now even the negroes african-americans themselves.

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2 hours ago, Rom said:

transvestite?

‘Ladyboy’ is a term that is used by tourists for a transgendered man

So is there a difference between a transgendered man and a transgender man?

I prefer the clarity of M2F or F2M. 

I thought a M2F transexual is considered a transgender woman but perhaps the final "ed" changes the meaning.   

Btw, my pronoun is he but in Thai if you elongate the he to hee with a rising tone it's a crude term for vagina so I guess guys who think I'm a cunt are right!

Talking about transvestites here's Tim Curry and a young Susan Sarandon:

 

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3 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

So is there a difference between a transgendered man and a transgender man?

I prefer the clarity of M2F or F2M. 

I thought a M2F transexual is considered a transgender woman but perhaps the final "ed" changes the meaning.   

Btw, my pronoun is he but in Thai if you elongate the he to hee with a rising tone it's a crude term for vagina so I guess guys who think I'm a cunt are right!

Talking about transvestites here's Tim Curry and a young Susan Sarandon:

Big Rocky Horror Picture Show FAN here.  First saw it in Georgetown DC on Halloween night 1980 as a child visiting from Europe and had no idea what the hell it was about... only got the Meatloaf part.

It’s “transgender,” not “transgendered.”   “Transgendered” would be the linguistic equivalent of describing a Thai male as “ladyboyed.”

This is a good time to remind that we had a thread like this 4 months ago (Are we non-binary?) where I wondered if we should change the Board's name to the politically-as-correct-as-it-gets  ThaiMaleCisgenderEnbiesReview   ????

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7 hours ago, Rom said:

‘Ladyboy’ is a term that is used by tourists for a transgendered man – one that dresses and behaves like a woman.

So the above should read transgender woman or transwoman.

But the author seems to imply that the transgendering process changes a man to a woman.

I reckon those who invented the new terminology wouldn't like M2F since they consider the original biological designation irrelevant.

Shemale is considered offensive and an invention of the porn industry.

Maybe we should just all agree to call our girls sissies?  :girl_hospital:

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7 hours ago, Rom said:

Ladyboy’ is a term that is used by tourists for a transgendered man

Nothing gets by you, does it Pdoggg?    Siiiiiigh  !   It was me who added the "ed" to "transgender man"  as it was incorrect in the source I quoted  and hereby reference:  https://www.theblondtravels.com/ladyboys-third-gender-thailand/

A ladyboy would be a transgender woman (as opposed to "cisgender woman" what we call a "GG").   Born male but identifying as female: TRANSWOMAN;  M2F

"Transgendered"  should not be used, even if it is tempting to say "Young Wanchai transgendered into Lily."  Don't!

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1 hour ago, Rom said:

Nothing gets by you, does it Pdoggg?    Siiiiiigh  !   It was me who added the "ed" to "transgender man"  as it was incorrect in the source I quoted  and hereby reference:  https://www.theblondtravels.com/ladyboys-third-gender-thailand/

A ladyboy would be a transgender woman (as opposed to "cisgender woman" what we call a "GG").   Born male but identifying as female: TRANSWOMAN;  M2F

"Transgendered"  should not be used, even if it is tempting to say "Young Wanchai transgendered into Lily."  Don't!

Geez, you have been warned!.

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