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VIP Resident Visas: It's the End of Sexpats As We Know Them


Rom
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Last year I posted that Thailand mongering would not be the same after Covid-19, not so much because of Covid itself but because of ongoing demographic and income trends in Thailand that will progressively make cheap eager prostitutes (and menial laborers in general) a thing of the past.   Covid, once its over, would just provide a convenient timing for the Thai authorities to reform its farang-oriented sex industry since it all but closed in 2020-21 so the desruption is already there if changes are to be made.  Going forward, I prognosticated, there is only one direction:  UPSCALE WHORES and HIGHER-VALUE MONGERS.   

Seems I was on to something.  The Thai authorities just announced a VIP sexpat visa for wealthy applicants with US$1 million in assets and annual income of US$80,000.  Pensioners get a break and need only US$40,000 (which is actually not that high).   But the point is that gone are the days when Thais were happy to attract low-income farangs coming to Thailand on a Cheap Charlie budget to enjoy the sex lives of rock stars without bringing much to the economy (unless of course they blew their life savings building houses in Issan in the name of their future ex-es...)

The Thai authorities say they want to attract "1 million" such high-value expats over the next five years, which stands to reason will be at the expense of lower income applicants and perhaps even of sexpats already there who might not see their visas renewed.  This will also serve for Thais to avoid having to deal with the otherwise expectable inflow of the Arab world and China-equivalent of the West's riff-raff, as all those Jordanians and mainlanders we have been seeing gaining ground on the bars over the past 20 years are also gonna want to retire in the company of cheap sluts.

What do you all think ?  how much time do we have to enjoy Thailand on the cheap ?

Here is my source and a helpful chart they prepared:

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2181775/govt-to-entice-rich-expats

 

334747089_VIPsexpats.jpg.f1eee2d34c988fe1959370615eee2a8d.jpg

 

 

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17 hours ago, Rom said:

What do you all think ?

Me thinks you want to be a guest lecturer at Bangkok Ladyboy University!   :obscene:

Re the second category, Wealthy Pensioners, not sure why this is a better scheme that what is normally offered.   The current Retirement Visa is a great deal at 1900 baht a year.  The main inconvenience is that it must be renewed in a 30 day window at the same time every year.  Currently a Retirement Visa holder must either keep 800K baht in a Thai bank, prove 65K baht a mont in pension income, or pay a fixer.  Guys balk at 800K baht so 250K USD ( around 8 million Thai baht) is a hurdle.

The government could keep the current system in place but do away with the age requirement and change pension income to any income. 

The article makes no mention of the visa fee.   In the past the fee was an exorbitant amount, age restricted, and seemed to offer little benefit beyond the retirement visa.  The retirement visa fee is quite low in Thailand compared to the Philippines and Cambodia.  In Cambodia it is the equivalent of 10K baht.

The current system for digital nomads is absurd, a system where every few months the nomads must do a border run in a death van.  Would be more sensible to jack up the visa fee to cost of the death vans.  

 

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10 hours ago, Rom said:

Pensioners get a break and need only US$40,000 (which is actually not that high).

I don't know what US pensions are like. But that would be high at around £29,000 in UK. The average UK pension is about £15,000.

I wouldn't like to guess about what is going to happen in Thailand, but I suspect there will continue to be 2-4 week tourists on lower budgets. 

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"What do you all think ?  how much time do we have to enjoy Thailand on the cheap ?"

Well, I think those times have - more or less - ended already even before the pandemic started, especially in the tourist trap bars in Bangkok's RLDs

In the ladyboy world this wasn't perhaps as apparent as in the GG universe. Pre-pandemic, even some at best average looking Thai GG girls of Soi Cowboy and Nana Plaza were demanding big money for their services (if they were willing to go with farang customers at all).

Guess there will be a year or two after the restart of the sex tourist business, where the girls will be desperate enough to go for less money than before covid. But wait until after the tourist business is back in full swing and the good (i.e., cheap) days will be over again pretty soon.

I think that doesn't mean there won't be any prostitutes around anymore looking for farang boyfriends for the night or week. But I'd say you will more and more often see girls from poorer neighboring countries, such as Laos and Myanmar and less and less Thai girls.

As for the ladyboy sex business, I think there'll be enough Thai ladyboys around for quite some time. Their options in the regular economy are still limited and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Until they have better chances getting into good, regular jobs, there'll be enough lbs around in the short run, perhaps even the medium term.

Those are my thoughts...

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I agree with Papa Sam above and had previously made the same call that the best days are long over as far as GG mongering, while for ladyboys it peaked later but we are also on the downhill already...

check it if interested:      http://www.ladyboyreview.com/index.php?/topic/8947-covid-19-the-upsides-to-the-end-of-pattaya-as-we-know-it/&tab=comments#comment-189812

 

I also agree with Quietguy's stat of 15,000 quid or thereabouts and that's precisely the sort of retiree pensioner Thailand intends to get rid off to upgrade itself as an expat destination.   Let's face it:  such low-income expats are actually lossmakers from Thailand's point of view as they use public services (roads, security, other govt services) without paying income taxes.

which brings us to Pdoggs's argument that the current system is already "a great deal"  which I took to mean that it is working to attract expats.   Yes it is!  The problem for the Thais is precisely that it is working so well that it would continue attracting the low-income pensioners that Thailand seemingly no longer wants.  Hence the new VIP visas which will also do away with the periodic check and 90 day exits that had to be imposed on the riff-raff...

The other post is a non-sequitur as income distribution among Thais is not relevant to the new Visa policy.  If anything, it would be ABSOLUTE income levels among the poorest Thais and those have undisputably been rising to the point where the poorest Thais are much less poor than in the past, are having fewer children, and are more likely to educate them than to ship' em off to brothels...

One upside is that for those who will be able to afford the VIP visas, Thailand will be a more exclusive place with less competition from so many sexpats on a budget.  How would that work for you?

Professor Romulus 

Guest Zoom lecturer at BKK University

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3 hours ago, Rom said:

 

 

 

I also agree with Quietguy's stat of 15,000 quid or thereabouts and that's precisely the sort of retiree pensioner Thailand intends to get rid off to upgrade itself as an expat destination.   Let's face it:  such low-income expats are actually lossmakers from Thailand's point of view as they use public services (roads, security, other govt services) without paying income taxes.

So, I am one of these blokes to be got rid of, I guess. I'm no millionaire, but over the 12 years I've lived here I've put around 50,000 baht a month into the local economy. And some of it is very local, not all to the hi-so companies, but rather to local markets and tradespeople. And tax is taken from the bank interest I earn as well. Right now I think Thailand would be happy, financially speaking, to have blokes like us living here. By the time the country finds it's feet again I will probably have gone in the local temple crematorium, thereby contibuting again to the local economy on my way out.

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Well considering the average household income in Thailand equates to $10,000.

So if a Pension of £15,000 from somebody in the UK ($20,000 thereabouts).

I can't see how they are a burden to Thailand really. Insured etc 

Can only be a benefit in these difficult times.

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I understand that Thailand wants to "upgrade" getting rid of the average rif-raf pensioner and making higher revenues pensioners come instead. I don't know whether the covid crisis will help accelerate this policy or delay it for a couple of decades. 

I don't think that Thailand wants to put out the former average retiree but will stop attracting new ones and will try to attract better off retirees instead. If I remember well, there had been an Asian crisis in 1997 that made countries like Thailand lose high levels of incomes and they had been happy to welcome farangs with an average purchasing power. Perhaps they will be happy to welcome average mongers after the covid crisis to bring Thailand foreign currencies. 

We'll see what will happen in real in the next few years. Just a reminder : I stopped going to Chiang Mai since I had found the city no longer looked like an exotic touristic destination but more and more like a European provincial city. I had the same judgement regarding the Patpong area. It reminded me of tourist bars in a European captital city touristic area. 

Regarding expat visas, I don't really feel concerned either by Thailand or another country. After visiting SE Asia a few times, I decided that becoming an expat wouldn't be a great idea. I would be bored with what makes a sex tourist happy and I wouldn't be able to be a 52 weeks millionaire. I also distanced myself from Thailand and have felt happy for it. I  know neither where I will be mongering in 5 years nor if I will be mongering ladyboys/shemales or GGs in my other destination. So, I don't place much importance to this kind of forward looking information. I will tell you what I do after I have done it. 

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Gentlemen this is NOT PERSONAL neither on the part of the Thai Government towards any of you, nor on mine as I don't have any idea what income level any of you expat BMs enjoy and how the new policies might affect you if at all.

But we have to admit this is a NO-BRAINER !    if given a choice between high-income, high-skills expats VERSUS low-income, bargain hunting expats, if the Thai Minister of Economics is doing his/her job he/she will pick the high-incomes.   You may feel you are spreading the wealth among the neediest when you buy 30 baht pad thais from the street vendors, but you would spread your wealth much faster if you paid 300 baht every meal, which is the minimum you would pay for a cooked and served meal in your home country... same-same when you buy 50 baht beers that in western strip joints cost 500...  1000 baht longtimes  that in europe might cost you 1000 euros... etc, etc

I doubt Thailand will become the French Riviera, but they are now in a position to become more selective as regards who they want to live in their country...  Especially regarding the sexpats since the supply of Thai prostitutes is going down (fewer children and alternative occupations) and the demand is going up from more and more sexpats and sex tourists from more countries.  It stands to reason the cheaper charlies have to be culled, or the high-rolling charlies won't come.

Besides the demographics, there is another factor at play:  Despite the prevailing authoritarianism, Thais are becoming more politically and socially aware and will eventually not accept being the country where old foreign men come to fuck their young.  When that day comes, and it will, it will be the end of sexpats as we know them, which is the message i intended when I started this thread.   And then the end of sex tourists also and that would be me among them.

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So why upgrade the airport then Rom?

Hotels popping up like mushrooms.

I really think they the Thais have not attained the exclusivity of the South of France or Mayfair of London.

Yes I've seen the HISO establishments in BKK. I stayed at a hotel on several occasions in Hway Kwang, it had its own disco/private club for very rich Thais. The DJ was a farang TS. 

Seen Arab brothels only.

Personally I don't think we are near that point yet not likely to be either for a good while.

 

24 minutes ago, Rom said:

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Rom said:

I doubt Thailand will become the French Riviera, but they are now in a position to become more selective as regards who they want to live in their country... 

I hope it never will be although I love the french riviera and would probably retire there if I could afford it. Or north Engerland, mainly for the food , weather and their beautiful women. Thats off the table now because of Brexit though. Shame really.

 

What makes you think they will be in a position to chose their visitors? I think your prediction is way off. We'll be fine with €1500 a month. My biggest concern is will they allow the 2 week millionaires in? I hope not. Better to allow sextourist come there for 3 to 4 months.

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1 hour ago, Rom said:

Gentlemen this is NOT PERSONAL neither on the part of the Thai Government towards any of you, nor on mine as I don't have any idea what income level any of you expat BMs enjoy and how the new policies might affect you if at all.

But we have to admit this is a NO-BRAINER !    if given a choice between high-income, high-skills expats VERSUS low-income, bargain hunting expats, if the Thai Minister of Economics is doing his/her job he/she will pick the high-incomes.   You may feel you are spreading the wealth among the neediest when you buy 30 baht pad thais from the street vendors, but you would spread your wealth much faster if you paid 300 baht every meal, which is the minimum you would pay for a cooked and served meal in your home country... same-same when you buy 50 baht beers that in western strip joints cost 500...  1000 baht longtimes  that in europe might cost you 1000 euros... etc, etc

I doubt Thailand will become the French Riviera, but they are now in a position to become more selective as regards who they want to live in their country...  Especially regarding the sexpats since the supply of Thai prostitutes is going down (fewer children and alternative occupations) and the demand is going up from more and more sexpats and sex tourists from more countries.  It stands to reason the cheaper charlies have to be culled, or the high-rolling charlies won't come.

Besides the demographics, there is another factor at play:  Despite the prevailing authoritarianism, Thais are becoming more politically and socially aware and will eventually not accept being the country where old foreign men come to fuck their young.  When that day comes, and it will, it will be the end of sexpats as we know them, which is the message i intended when I started this thread.   And then the end of sex tourists also and that would be me among them.

"but you would spread your wealth much faster if you paid 300 baht every meal,"

A rather strange comment to make.

So we cherry pick which items we pay western world prices for?. I would have thought that meal prices are established in the same way that prices are established in most places. That is; cost of materials and labour, plus margin plus profit margin and be in competition with other suppliers. Is that correct? Not based on what a similar item might might sell for in the EU or the US.

In most countrties petrol is much more expensive than it the US for example, partly due to taxes and other expenses. Petrol is way more expensive in Thailand than the US. Let the Thai government drop the price. That will get them a leg up!.

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50 minutes ago, seven said:

I hope it never will be although I love the french riviera and would probably retire there if I could afford it. Or north Engerland, mainly for the food , weather and their beautiful women. Thats off the table now because of Brexit though. Shame really.

 

What makes you think they will be in a position to chose their visitors? I think your prediction is way off. We'll be fine with €1500 a month. My biggest concern is will they allow the 2 week millionaires in? I hope not. Better to allow sextourist come there for 3 to 4 months.

Seven, you were joking re the North of England? Food; soggy chips and bangers. Weather ; rain with short periods of milky sunshine. Beautiful women; those ten ton hunks of lard rolling out of the pubs at closing time!. Wow!.

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57 minutes ago, seven said:

Or north Engerland, mainly for the food , weather and their beautiful women. Thats off the table now because of Brexit though. Shame 

If you didn't watch metro lovies like Mr Pie in the Sky. Manchester for example is experiencing a property boom. Why?. I really don't know why you got this BREXIT hang up Severn. Fringe countries in Europe do better than the EU members in terms economic performance (Norway, Switzerland & Iceland). Still early days for the UK but we are doing ok.

Very rich Arabs prefer the climate of the North West in summer as opposed to getting fryed in their native countries, at least you get rain. Then there's the horses, the infamous football club. 

PS. My phone is self aware like skynet its being very naughty. Apologies for the structure of my post 555.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Woodie said:

"but you would spread your wealth much faster if you paid 300 baht every meal,"    A rather strange comment to make.

So we cherry pick which items we pay western world prices for?. (...)

NOT "we" cherrypicking anything Woodie !!!    It's the Thais who get to cherrypick farangs by welcoming the ones who spend more and phasing out the bargain hunters whose spending is no longer of much importance in view of Thailand's economic growth and whose continued presence may turn off the wealthier ones from coming and prevent the stated policy objective of turning Thailand into a high value destination.

One BM says he "puts 50,000 baht a month into the local economy" which may be a lot for him, but for farangs earning US100,000+ a year it's pocket change and it's those farangs Thailand wants going forward...

You might ask : why not continue to have both as Thailand has had for so long: the budget farangs who stay at 500 baht per night rooms and the quality farangs who stay at the expensive resorts?  I think they will for the foreseeble future, but my whole point is that by instituting the new VIP visas it has to be seen as an official shift to high-value tourism that will go hand-in-hand with the demise of the world of cheap mongering we love so much.

It's what happened in other countries in Asia (HK, Taiwan, Singapore, Korea, Japan a long time ago) where women used to be eager and plentiful and cost of living affordable and then those countries went upscale, including what remains of their sex industries...

Let's just be glad we've enjoyed it for so long and that we still have more than a few good years left as I don't think Pattaya will turn into Cannes overnight ... But I do think it's going to be even faster downhill from now when it "reopens" and more than half the bars will remain closed, and the ones that open will have fewer staff, and prices inevitably have to go up...

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12 hours ago, Rom said:

if given a choice between high-income, high-skills expats VERSUS low-income, bargain hunting expats, if the Thai Minister of Economics is doing his/her job he/she will pick the high-incomes. 

12 hours ago, seven said:

What makes you think they will be in a position to chose their visitors?

Given the choice, a beautiful young Thai GG or LB would choose a twentysomething guy with KPop good looks who drives a Ferrari and is hung like a Brazilian travesti instead of a LBR member.

It does make sense to make it easier for farang of means under 50 to stay in Thailand without jumping through multiple hoops.   But it will not be easy for Thailand to attract these farangs.

Thailand's best bet is to target the Chinese.

6 hours ago, Rom said:

I don't think Pattaya will turn into Cannes overnight ...

:biggrin:

Perhaps the first step is to push the bars to the other side of 2nd Road or even across 3rd Road to really get them out of sight.   Put a big splashy casino on Beach Road or Bali Hai that you can get to by monorail.   

But Thailand won't turn into Singapore overnight and the HiSo Thais will resist wealth distribution so hooking up with mongers will still be an attractive option for farm fresh Thai girls.  If not, mongers will have the Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Bali which should all take longer to gentrify.

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7 hours ago, Rom said:

NOT "we" cherrypicking anything Woodie !!!    It's the Thais who get to cherrypick farangs by welcoming the ones who spend more and phasing out the bargain hunters whose spending is no longer of much importance in view of Thailand's economic growth and whose continued presence may turn off the wealthier ones from coming and prevent the stated policy objective of turning Thailand into a high value destination.

One BM says he "puts 50,000 baht a month into the local economy" which may be a lot for him, but for farangs earning US100,000+ a year it's pocket change and it's those farangs Thailand wants going forward...

You might ask : why not continue to have both as Thailand has had for so long: the budget farangs who stay at 500 baht per night rooms and the quality farangs who stay at the expensive resorts?  I think they will for the foreseeble future, but my whole point is that by instituting the new VIP visas it has to be seen as an official shift to high-value tourism that will go hand-in-hand with the demise of the world of cheap mongering we love so much.

It's what happened in other countries in Asia (HK, Taiwan, Singapore, Korea, Japan a long time ago) where women used to be eager and plentiful and cost of living affordable and then those countries went upscale, including what remains of their sex industries...

Let's just be glad we've enjoyed it for so long and that we still have more than a few good years left as I don't think Pattaya will turn into Cannes overnight ... But I do think it's going to be even faster downhill from now when it "reopens" and more than half the bars will remain closed, and the ones that open will have fewer staff, and prices inevitably have to go up...

Rom, sorry the first "we" was referring to the Thai authorities. You are saying that the Thais will price goods and services aimed at tourists specifically to deter the less wealthy tourist and concentrate on the wealthy ones. Well good luck to them on that one!.

A countries wealth is dependent on a lot of things, but with Thailand they have what appears to be an even more stratified economy than most. A very rich top layer whose number is very small, and a very poor remainder. Doubt whether your theory would apply to them. The wealthy as in most countries ,want to keep the poor very poor. Scared maybe as to what a more wealthy and educated lower class could do to their standing. What you are suggesting would not help their cause. If a meal costs 100b but is then increased to 300 baht, where does the 200 baht go to?. By the way, you are welcome to pay the 300 baht for your meal, but if you are dining in the Hilton you would be paying more than that anyway!.

If as it should, their currency falls to a level that it should be at, around 35 to 38 b to the USD, that may stir up the populace (who I feel sorry for), as it would lead to an increase in inflation, but it would help stimulate tourism when the borders open.

If anyone on here can explain the level of the baht, please fire away. It is almost the 8th wonder of the world!.

Just on a side note. I find that what appears to be a very low priority in Thailand in the teaching of English to a degree that would allow the young ones from Isaan etc., to be involved in tourism, very puzzling. The times where I have had trouble communicating with hotel staff is too many to be acceptable. Yes I know some of you would say why only English?. It just happens to be the almost universal language when travelling.

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  • Rom changed the title to VIP Resident Visas: It's the End of Sexpats As We Know Them
19 hours ago, Woodie said:

You are saying that the Thais will price goods and services aimed at tourists specifically to deter the less wealthy tourist and concentrate on the wealthy ones. Well good luck to them on that one!.

It does seem to be working in India. They like Thailand used to attract a lot of low spending tourists, backpackers and elderly retirees who would go there to get some cheap sunshine, food, alcohol and guesthouse accommodation over the European winter

India too wanted to deter the cheap tourists and attract the rich. A few years back India started increasing visa charges. I think Thailand might raise visa prices and introduce charges for even 30 day visas.  

Also India introduced 'Luxury Taxes' in tourist areas on goods and services foreign tourists would use, hotels, alcohol and restaurant meals. Indian Nationals are exempt I believe. A bottle of wine or spirits cost 3-4 times what would be paid in London. One of the main reasons I stopped going to Goa in Jan/Feb and went to los instead. Also I do not like Modi's Hindu Nationalist Government.

Despite the price increases foreign tourism increased by 3.5% from 10.56m in 2018 to 10.93m in 2019. They are promoting 'luxury hotels and tours for the wealthy. Internal tourism increased a lot, which I think is because the increasingly well off middle class are holidaying in the guesthouses and cheaper hotels previously used by the budget foreign tourists. 

Thailand might be looking at India and realising higher prices will likely deter the less well off tourists and attract the rich.

 

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5 minutes ago, Quietguy said:

It does seem to be working in India. They like Thailand used to attract a lot of low spending tourists, backpackers and elderly retirees who would go there to get some cheap sunshine, food, alcohol and guesthouse accommodation over the European winter

India too wanted to deter the cheap tourists and attract the rich. A few years back India started increasing visa charges. I think Thailand might introduce charges for even 30 day visas.  

Also India introduced 'Luxury Taxes' on goods and services foreign tourists would use, hotels, alcohol and meals. Indian Nationals are exempt I believe. A bottle of wine or spirits cost 3-4 times what would be paid in London.

Despite the price increases foreign tourism increased by 3.5% from 10.56m in 2018 to 10.93m in 2019. Internal tourism increased a lot.

Thailand might be looking at India and realising higher prices will likely deter the less well off tourists and attract the rich.

 

The Indians were coming into Thailand and buying up Tellys, due to their conversion from analogue to digital.

Not so much the case now I think.

I never really understood their interest in Thailand, you can get the same in Kerala or even Goa.

In fact, I never understood why on earth you'd want a family holiday in Pattaya (applies to Russians and Chinese as well). Surely you'd consider Krabi over Pattaya?

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4 hours ago, Woodie said:

Rom, sorry the first "we" was referring to the Thai authorities. You are saying that the Thais will price goods and services aimed at tourists specifically to deter the less wealthy tourist and concentrate on the wealthy ones. Well good luck to them on that one!.

 

My Auntie was a millionaire, seriously. I thought I was tight 555.

She had a hardware shop in the city, nothing to look at from outside. But she was a exporting machine 555.

PS. She despised the EU more than me and that's saying something. She was exporting all over.

As for prices like that, they would get a serious hand bagging off her.

If Gin would of been overpriced she'd of flipped 555.

Hell hath no wrath like a woman's scorn. 555.

Her house was a time machine, she had a gas fire in her bedroom from the 1920's FFS.

Rom, seriously mega rich people your describing are tight as fuck 555.

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17 hours ago, Woodie said:

Seven, you were joking re the North of England? 

He thinks he is being a clever t**t Woodie,  :wink:

 Manchester has just been voted 3rd best City in the World after San Francisco and Amsterdam concerning nightlife, restaurants, cultural highlights amongst other categories. :good:

Probably best to visit a place first before slagging it off imho:kissass:

 

IMG_20210918_195143.jpg

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5 hours ago, duke007 said:

He thinks he is being a clever t**t Woodie,  :wink:

 Manchester has just been voted 3rd best City in the World after San Francisco and Amsterdam concerning nightlife, restaurants, cultural highlights amongst other categories. :good:

Probably best to visit a place first before slagging it off imho:kissass:

 

IMG_20210918_195143.jpg

Yes I agree with you Duke its a great place to visit, easy to drive into the city centre unlike Birmingham or London. Excellent rail links, plus the metro. Great History and culture. Clubbing not been their for years but I did go the Hacienda in the late 80's on a few ocassions.

They have filmed movies in the city, did the New York scenes of Captain America in the Northern Quarter & some scenes of Sherlock Holmes (RDJ vrsion).

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