SiamSam Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Not sure Beijo. I've learnt in my long life we can't paint with such a wide brush about anybody or anything. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beijo Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Its not such a wide brush if you look at who we are talking about. We, the tourists, who are looking for sex in the Thai bars and the Thai LB's and GG's who are looking to make a living selling sex, a relative small group of people.The Thais we are dealing with are not the most affluent and I dont want to put anybody down or blame them for what they are doing. The Thais we are dealing with most of the time dont have any other way to achieve a better live and for the punters its easy to get fooled. Who would go looking for love and devotion in the bar scene back home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSam Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Not all tourists who frequent Thai bars and not all LBs and GGs who happen to work there are looking simply for sex. Yes they are there to provide for themselves, family and make ends meet. And yes we are there because it is a whole lot easier, available and cheaper to enjoy terrific companionship than we could ever find in our own native countries. However, in the end everyone looks for depth and for more meaningful connections with their relationships. When you have food, warmth, shelter, and money you seek and hold dear what you do not have. That is love and a personal raison etre. Thais have family (and respect family differently than we in the west) and for the most part that family provides a lot of love and connection. Their Thais lovers, husbands, boyfriends usually do not. What they don't have is money, security, and a future trust that they and their families will be okay. You provide that and I trust you can find someone who is willing to provide you with your needs. We in the west think this might be an example of the "long con". Not sure, could be, but once we believe that about everyone...well what's the fucking point about anything? Like I said, I believe painting with a wide brush misses fine and precious detail. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke007 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Duke - Yes there are exceptions to the rule, Just like redrock says its all about sex and money. Yes there are definately quite a few exceptions to the rule, trust me, "Up to you sceptics to believe " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beijo Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 SiamS - You made my point, we are loved for the money we provide. I asked my GG girlfriend of 2 years what are your priorities and she answered: 1- my parents, 2- you, 3- money. I enjoy every minute with her and i do provide for her and I have to say that no women back home ever treated me as nice as she. She or her parents never asked for 1 baht from me, however I have no illusions that in case of parential request money would not move to 2nd place. Just as you correctly pointed out there are substantial cultural differences. Yes, as Duke said and I agreed there are exceptions, My above post are more for the Newwbies who easily could fall in love but do not know Thailand who should be watching their hearts more than their wallets and for anybody thinking about marriage and taking a LB or GG back home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4:17 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 *dons flame-retardant suit* First, once again, excellent thread, BB. Second, let me emphasize, this isn't directed at anyone in particular, and I'm not trying to troll or otherwise get anyone upset/pick a fight -- just trying to understand. I confess I really don't understand the cynicism that so many people have regarding Thai girls/LBs and Thai culture -- and believe me, there are things that drive me absolute bat-shit crazy when it comes to Thai culture (of course there are things that bug the shit out of me about Western cultures, too). But then I suppose that's because I don't understand those looking for love in LoS. SiamSam made an elegant statement -- very well said sir; +1 -- and I'm curious as to how many of you here it describes: Not all tourists who frequent Thai bars and not all LBs and GGs ... are looking simply for sex. Yes they are there to provide for themselves, family and make ends meet. And yes we are there because it is a whole lot easier, available and cheaper to enjoy terrific companionship than we could ever find in our own native countries. However, in the end everyone looks for depth and for more meaningful connections with their relationships. When you have food, warmth, shelter, and money you seek and hold dear what you do not have. That is love and a personal raison etre. Does this describe you, forum reader? Because I have to say it doesn't describe me, and maybe that's where I'm at a loss. Again, don't get me wrong; I'm not arguing with Sam or saying he's wrong or anything -- just really curious and trying to understand why I'm always reading about drama and the ensuing cynicism *cough, cough -- LBP forum -- cough, cough* or hearing about it first hand here on the ground, either here in Viet Nam or back in Thailand. I'm not looking for depth or something more meaningful; it's not a goal. Personal connections aren't my raison d'etre. I suppose in terms of life goals, at the end of the day, I only have two: have as much fun as a I can before I die, and follow the Golden Rule as much as possible, both in terms of the people I encounter and the world at large. I'm not looking for love, and I guess that's why I find this whole thread -- and many others -- mystifying. I suppose if I find it, that would be great, but it's not a goal. It's not something I seek out, expect, or necessarily even want. I like to keep life simple. Give me some drama-free fun and excitement sprinkled with a bit of passion, and I'm content and happy; all is right with the world. So are most of you ultimately "seeking and holding dear what you do not have," to paraphrase Sam? Is that your personal raison d'etre, once you have food, warmth and shelter? Are you looking for more than just a good time? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixon cox Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I like your story very much and pity those that don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randiuno Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 *dons flame-retardant suit* First, once again, excellent thread, BB. I'm not looking for depth or something more meaningful; it's not a goal. Personal connections aren't my raison d'etre. I suppose in terms of life goals, at the end of the day, I only have two: have as much fun as a I can before I die, and follow the Golden Rule as much as possible, both in terms of the people I encounter and the world at large. I'm not looking for love, and I guess that's why I find this whole thread -- and many others -- mystifying. I suppose if I find it, that would be great, but it's not a goal. It's not something I seek out, expect, or necessarily even want. I like to keep life simple. Give me some drama-free fun and excitement sprinkled with a bit of passion, and I'm content and happy; all is right with the world. @4:17 Couple of questions for you. 1) Ever married? 2) Any children? I have an uncle that has never been married and has no children. Although he is a little quirky, he has a full life and doesn't ask anyone for anything. He is also available to help others with his resources. I am also unaware of him ever having a meaningful relationship with any other person. I don't understand it, but he is happy. You may be like him. I often say I too am just playing around and being honest as I go about it, but ever since I was young, I have enjoyed being in "intimate relationship" with another human being. My problem today is that the individuals that I'm attracted to and want to be in intimate relationship with happen to be transgendered, and there are limited transgendered prospects where I live. So I am scouring the far reaches of South East Asia to try to find a TG person who also desires an intimate relationship with another human being just like me. Maybe to some members of this board that sounds ridiculous, but the difference between ladyboy fans and GG fans, is that there are 10000's of pretty GG prospects right here in the U.S. where I live. But, to meet a TG girl, that is a different story - Not so many prospects here in the U.S. Thus, I have to either Move to S.E. Asia, or Visit Regularly, or Bring a nice girl back to the states. Right now I'm in the visit regularly crowd...(three trips in last 9 months), and one more planned for November. However, since my business is not international trade or investments, it costs me each time I travel. So my solution is either to change careers so that I can be in S.E. Asia, or take the risk on one girl and bring her back, or just keep spending all my discretionary income on travelling to Cambodia, Philippines, Thailand, and points beyond to meet new girls or the sames one over and over again. I realize that many on this board face the same connundrum. Anyway...i guess this is just a long winded justification for what some would consider insane behavior...but as the songwriter says..."If loving you (one tg girl) is wrong, then I don't want to be right!" Cheers everyone, and see you in LOS Oct 31 to Nov 4 (and possibly longer) Randi 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSam Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Sorry I'll miss you Randiuno. I get there for the last 2 weeks in November. Woulda liked to have met ya. Next time perhaps. Have a go trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimslim Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I ain't got fuck all in common with any of them, and the cultural divide is, at times, impenetrable. Good point , all I've got in common with them is a childlike sense of humour so I can have a laugh and enjoy the company of those that are not too serious . I still couldn't see any situation that could go beyond that my life is just so different to any Thai person . Any wonder though why we still seek out the company of other BM's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randiuno Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Sorry I'll miss you Randiuno. I get there for the last 2 weeks in November. Woulda liked to have met ya. Next time perhaps. Have a go trip. Hey SiamSam, It would have been nice to chit chat over a drink. You have given good insignts to me on this board since I joined in Nov of last year. Would have been nice to put a face with the name...I may stay in Thailand through November 12, but thinking I may reconnect with my Philipinne friends in Cebu after spending 5 days(Oct 31-Nov 4) in Patts/BKK since I'm really going to see the Miss International Queen pageant... Anyway, hope you are well. Randi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4:17 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Hey Randi, Thanks for taking the time to post that. +1 I guess I'll never completely understand the hunt for true love, so to speak, but I can understand where you're coming from now that you've spelled it out for me. It sounds like you've got your eyes (and your mind) open and are self-aware, so I think if anyone has a shot, you do. @4:17 Couple of questions for you. 1) Ever married? 2) Any children? I have an uncle that has never been married and has no children. Although he is a little quirky, he has a full life and doesn't ask anyone for anything. He is also available to help others with his resources. I am also unaware of him ever having a meaningful relationship with any other person. I don't understand it, but he is happy. You may be like him. ... Heh, nope, never been married and most certainly no rugrats (do not want to even contemplate the responsibility that would entail). I used to think when I was younger that I wanted these things; after all that's normal. It's how I (and many others) was raised. It's what people do, and I had a string of serious relationships starting in college, a few live-in girlfriends, etc. With one of them we actually came within several months of getting married. Church and pastor booked, invitations mailed, reception booked -- the whole nine yards. *shudder* Confronted with the reality of it, I had to do some soul searching and some long, hard thinking, the end result of which was realizing that getting married -- not just to her, but to anyone -- and producing children were the absolute last things I wanted. Thus wedding called off; the ugliness that ensued only reinforced my feelings. That's been, oh, a decade and a half ago, and there have been a couple of serious relationships since then, although I was brutally honest with them and explained I'm not husband material: no interest in long-term serial monogamy nor in procreation; living together isn't even an option. Both times, in the end, the women confessed that they thought that I was either a) just another full of shit guy who just needed to be hooked and reeled in, or that they could change me -- tame the wild stallion, or some other such silly metaphor. At this point, unless a woman -- transgendered or otherwise -- came to me and said, "4, I love you and all that, but I'm not wifey material: I have no interest in a long-term serial monogamy nor in procreation; living together isn't even an option" -- there's the perfect woman -- I don't think I'd consider another relationship, not in a conventional, romantic sense of the term. So yeah, that's me, the weird globe-trotting, happily-single uncle showing up unannounced on siblings' doorsteps with odd souvenirs in hand for the brood of nieces and nephews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSam Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 ...and there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of that 4:17. In fact it is down-right sincere and I applaud your honesty to self. We are all different and there truly ain't no right or wrong way IMHO. Sounds like your ducks are in order. Bravo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblebee Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Hey SiamSam, It would have been nice to chit chat over a drink. You have given good insignts to me on this board since I joined in Nov of last year. Would have been nice to put a face with the name...I may stay in Thailand through November 12, but thinking I may reconnect with my Philipinne friends in Cebu after spending 5 days(Oct 31-Nov 4) in Patts/BKK since I'm really going to see the Miss International Queen pageant... Anyway, hope you are well. Randi Randi I can just see you frantically running around Patts on 3 November trying to postpone your flight to PIs. A very good, mature discussion here guys, this is what the forums are really all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4:17 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Danka, Sam. And you know, I forgot to mention -- in one respect I may surprise some people with my thinking, here -- but I'm much less cynical about people getting involved with working girls than most folks on this here board and others, as well as people I've bantered with in real life. Relationships aren't my thing, as established here and on BB's other thread, but it seems to me that the cultural and age differences are the big issues in these relationships, not merely the fact that she's a bar girl. Of course, as others have noted, if you don't want her to continue to work in the bar, you've either got to be here on the ground or willing to pony up your cash as well as your trust -- or so I would think. But then I'm not willing to put that to the test . Can't very well expect fidelity when I'm not willing to adhere to that myself. In fact, given a 20-something Thai girl who has lead a middle class or even hi-so life, vs. someone from rural Issan who has worked in a bar for several years -- provided they have the attitude/aptitude for that kind of life -- I imagine that in the long run there may be less issues with the bar girl who has graduated from the school of hard knocks; she's going to have different expectations than her well-to-do counterpart. But then I'm speaking generally; each person is, of course, different and a unique individual, regardless of what side of the planet they come from. And I'm admittedly biased, as I love my whores. (they do have hearts of gold, just often gilded in iron, heh). But then, I'm not looking to marry them -- or anyone else for that matter. P.S. and like Icerberg, I look forward to discussing this in real-time in Patts. ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSam Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Sure. I hope to be kicking around Bangkok and Pattaya the last two weeks in November. If you're about we'll sip a few. All the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblebee Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 It's an interesting coincidence that most of the posters in this thread will cross paths come early November. We could nearly name a place and time already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSam Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Don't burn out the shindig until I get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaiDee Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 This may sound strange to all the mongers here, but in a way I feel fortunate that my libido has kind of gone south in the past few years and these days I don't even bother anymore, and certainly not with relationships. I was just in Pattaya for about 10 weeks and didn't have sex with even one person, female or male or in-between and didn't give a toss either way. And, ummmmm, they certainly were available, it was low season! But even when I was much more active, say between 2000 and 2005, I only ever had ONE 'girlfriend', for about a year, and we both cheated on each other constantly so in reality how real was that? Every Thai has an angle, every single one, with us westerners. Sorry but I don't believe some of the stories I see about how "she really did/does love me and after a year or 2 still doesn't want anything from me" .....give it some more time and eventually the bomb will get dropped on you, if for no other reason due to pressure from her family. Keep in mind everyone is different, but I don't want to be part of any 'game'; I like my bed to myself, and sex is no big deal to me. I keep my phone off most of the time and don't want to be bombarded with messages and calls from people in "the game" when it is on, and the accent also drives me nuts after a while; I hear men my age explaining things to their girlfriends like a 5-year old and I don't want to be that guy. I like Thailand for the good weather and the cheapness factor and the fact they have so many nice beaches. The food is decent also. Relationships? Ehhh. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4:17 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 This may sound strange to all the mongers here, but in a way I feel fortunate that my libido has kind of gone south in the past few years and these days I don't even bother anymore, ... So now that you got all that fucking out of the way, now you can settle down to start writing novels or painting, yes? Back in college I came across a quote from a famous painter who, upon reflection on his life, wondered what else he could have accomplished -- beyond what he already had -- with his art, if not for his dick getting in the way. I don't remember who it was -- it may not have even been a painter; perhaps a writer, even, or a sculptor -- but at the time I reacted to it with a youthful "whatever, dude." Now that I shan't see 40 again, I'm beginning to suspect he was right. Nevertheless, having said that, we all know where I'm going and what (and who) I'm going to spend time doing the next time I have a few days off work (come the end of September). And again at the end of October. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblebee Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 I like my bed to myself, and sex is no big deal to me. I keep my phone off most of the time and don't want to be bombarded with messages and calls from people in "the game" when it is on, and the accent also drives me nuts after a while; I hear men my age explaining things to their girlfriends like a 5-year old and I don't want to be that guy. I like Thailand for the good weather and the cheapness factor and the fact they have so many nice beaches. The food is decent also. Relationships? Ehhh. Yep gotta agree with you there JaiDee. Nothing as bad as waking up with a dead arm contorted around someone else. I remember one night heading home along Pattaya Tai and seeing a well known member sitting looking bored shitless at a street stall while his chosen partner for the night had her nails painted. Having to break down our English to basic words and sounds is something amusing to observe as long as its not me doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSam Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Good post 4:17 :happy0065: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaiDee Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Yep gotta agree with you there JaiDee. Nothing as bad as waking up with a dead arm contorted around someone else. I remember one night heading home along Pattaya Tai and seeing a well known member sitting looking bored shitless at a street stall while his chosen partner for the night had her nails painted. Having to break down our English to basic words and sounds is something amusing to observe as long as its not me doing it. Well, as I say everyone is different and I certainly don't want to disparage anyone who actually LIKES talking in mono-syllabic sentences with someone 30 years their junior, that's their choice; it's just not for me. Every time I hear a farang on his cell or in person talking to his sweetheart and it goes something like "me come see you work 10 o'clock, we go get food, we go my room, tomorrow we go mall then go see momma you" I just say to myself "better him than me". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaiDee Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 So now that you got all that fucking out of the way, now you can settle down to start writing novels or painting, yes? Back in college I came across a quote from a famous painter who, upon reflection on his life, wondered what else he could have accomplished -- beyond what he already had -- with his art, if not for his dick getting in the way. I don't remember who it was -- it may not have even been a painter; perhaps a writer, even, or a sculptor -- but at the time I reacted to it with a youthful "whatever, dude." Now that I shan't see 40 again, I'm beginning to suspect he was right. You know 4:17, I really have no idea WHAT I will be doing with the next 20 or 30 years; I just left my 40's [ugghhh] and it just seems impossible that I would just not have interest in sex anymore, no? But for the past 3 or 4 years that has been the case; I took a girl from Obsessions a couple years back, based on a suggestion from my buddy TT Chang [who I am quite sure had taken out life insurance on me] and she nearly stopped my heart and when I finally did squeeze out a load after 30 minutes of sweating and panting it just seemed like so much........WORK! I said to myself at that time "was that really worth it?" and the clear answer was no, it wasn't. I've also had some health issues lately; I am overweight, have kidney stones and have been diagnosed with sleep apnea, and one of the side effects of that is low libido. I did talked to a urologist in Boston in 2010; he did some tests and said my testosterone level was fine, and that whatever problems I was having was "all in your head". Yeah, tell me something I DON'T know, Doc. Since we are all friends here, or adults, or maybe friendly adults[?], I don't mind saying this one bit; masturbation is much easier, costs nothing, I don't get winded and I can comfortably sleep alone. Win-win. But i still find it hard to believe my sex life could be over at age 50; while here in the states I don't mind at all, but I'd like to do some hunting again in the Land of Ladyboys some day! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4:17 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 You know 4:17, I really have no idea WHAT I will be doing with the next 20 or 30 years ... I'm sure you'll think of something, JD. I think you should put pen to paper and write a memoir. If you need a ghost writer or editor, I'm your man. ... I just left my 40's [ugghhh] and it just seems impossible that I would just not have interest in sex anymore, no? But for the past 3 or 4 years that has been the case ... I've also had some health issues lately ... I've found my middle aged body is like the middle-aged Ford I drove in high school and college. I put a lot of miles on it for its age, but it ran pretty good -- if I took religiously good care of it. My old T-Bird, if I ran it ever day -- highway miles, preferably -- changed all the fluids and filters per the manual, put high-octane fuel in it and did all of the recommended preventative type maintenance, it ran to beat hell (usually -- even then, some random shit would break once in awhile, but then it was old). Let it sit in the driveway and slack off taking care of it -- it would almost immediately and invariably start to run like shit. Same same me. When my father died I put on a lot of weight, quit working out, riding my bike and whatnot, and I'm still working it off years later. Back in my 20s if I put on weight I could always lose it with little trouble -- used to piss off my girlfriends (having a girlfriend is usually when I would put on a few pounds, lol). When I went back to the States last year, I started eating like I'd never left -- my intestinal track let me know in no uncertain terms that this was no longer an option -- no more cheap, low-octane gasahol. Don't get me wrong; I'm not offering any advice or proselytizing here -- just sympathy. I think your health naturally affects your libido, so I can sympathize. The aforementioned time after my dad died, I lost all interest in sex. Part of that was mental, sure, but part of it was also physical, I think. It wasn't until I started working out a bit again, yoga and some light trail running/mountain biking, that I began to notice women again -- that's what worked for me, at least. I'm sure you'll get yourself sorted and find your mojo again ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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