bumblebee Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 * I'm not looking for depth or something more meaningful; it's not a goal. Personal connections aren't my raison d'etre. I suppose in terms of life goals, at the end of the day, I only have two: have as much fun as a I can before I die, and follow the Golden Rule as much as possible, both in terms of the people I encounter and the world at large. I'm not looking for love, and I guess that's why I find this whole thread -- and many others -- mystifying. I suppose if I find it, that would be great, but it's not a goal. It's not something I seek out, expect, or necessarily even want. I like to keep life simple. Give me some drama-free fun and excitement sprinkled with a bit of passion, and I'm content and happy; all is right with the world. Heh, nope, never been married and most certainly no rugrats (do not want to even contemplate the responsibility that would entail). I used to think when I was younger that I wanted these things; after all that's normal. It's how I (and many others) was raised. It's what people do, and I had a string of serious relationships starting in college, a few live-in girlfriends, etc. With one of them we actually came within several months of getting married. Church and pastor booked, invitations mailed, reception booked -- the whole nine yards. *shudder* Confronted with the reality of it, I had to do some soul searching and some long, hard thinking, the end result of which was realizing that getting married -- not just to her, but to anyone -- and producing children were the absolute last things I wanted. Thus wedding called off; the ugliness that ensued only reinforced my feelings. The above quotes from 4.17 really struck a chord, he may as well be reading my mind and from having hung out with many of you guys here while in Los you might be thinking the same about yourselves. He has summed up the way I more or less see life and as I say I reckon a fair percentage of the guys who are into LBs think the same way, not all of you mind. Why do we think this way, is if from bad experiences with women earlier in our lives or are some of us wired differently and just cannot conform to the expected norms of life. Probably a mixture of both at the end of the day. So what makes us live this life of true grit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEXASMAC Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Defeated Expectations !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4:17 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The above quotes from 4.17 really struck a chord, he may as well be reading my mind ... Got mah hoodoo workin'! ... So what makes us live this life of true grit? Well, now, I suppose that's the $64,000 question, isn't it? By the way, I'm all out of +1's today, BB. Oh well, you've already reached cockstar status ... is there a reputation step beyond that? Super Deluxe Ultra Man Cockstar? Supreme Overlord Cockstar? How much rep does one need to achieve Cockstar status anyway? Anyway, I suppose like Tex says, part of it is defeated expectations -- the realization that white picket fences, a mortgage, spouse, 2.3 kids and a dog and the (often soul-crushing) job/career to support all that -- all of the usual things one expects to achieve in a first-world culture -- that none of that is what you want or is going to make you happy in the long run. The realization that no matter how hard you try, you can't choke down the red pill and stay in the Matrix, nor do you want to; a conventional life just won't do. From there you realize your path is going to be different -- or maybe you don't in so many words, but just instinctively set out on that Frost-laden road less traveled, giving the finger to the path of least resistance (damn, I am seriously mixing metaphors and pop culture references today), and figure it all out later. That is, if you're prone to thoughtful navel gazing (and I most certainly am). I'm sure most if not all of us have a friend or two back home who've told us "Shit, man, I wish I could do what you do. Just pick up and go. Have no worries or cares, do what the fuck you want. But I could never do that ... " blah blah blah because all the usual reasons, let me stop while I pop another blue pill. Do they lack true grit? I don't know. But among my better friends back home, when they come up with that line -- usually over a few beers -- I always like to respond: "You lack the courage of your convictions sir (or madam/mademoiselle, as the case may be). Do it." I can be a dick sometimes. What I often find more difficult to understand, however -- and what prompted my posts in the other thread -- are the folks that come abroad, particularly to a place like Thailand, to fulfill those expectations defeated at home. If you love transgendered women, that's one thing -- hey, who doesn't? -- but many people are still chasing the whole white-picket-fence dream on top of that, even though that chase has been making them unhappy for years back home. But to each his or her own. I'm not here to judge, just to try and understand. And I'm sure there are those individuals who are quite happy with a white-picket-fence lot in life -- just not with someone that was born with two XX chromosomes. We all have our own paths to travel. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randiuno Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 What I often find more difficult to understand, however -- and what prompted my posts in the other thread -- are the folks that come abroad, particularly to a place like Thailand, to fulfill those expectations defeated at home. If you love transgendered women, that's one thing -- hey, who doesn't? -- but many people are still chasing the whole white-picket-fence dream on top of that, even though that chase has been making them unhappy for years back home. But to each his or her own. I'm not here to judge, just to try and understand. And I'm sure there are those individuals who are quite happy with a white-picket-fence lot in life -- just not with someone that was born with two XX chromosomes. We all have our own paths to travel. How about a white picket fence and five ladyboys sipping Mai Tai's around the swimming pool in the backyard...sort of like a snoop dogg or puff daddy video, but with lbs instead of gg's ... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceberg Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Great topic BB, and a great response from the man who inspired it 4:17 thanks for replying btw, I agree the "white picket fence" has passed me by along time ago, now I just live for the day and enjoy my life when I'm in LOS! Can't wait to discuss this in person with the 4 guys who've responded to this thread, see ya in October-November! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4:17 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 ... Can't wait to discuss this in person with the 4 guys who've responded to this thread, see ya in October-November! Same same me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randiuno Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The wimpy "picket fencer" says...looking forward sitting with you guys and having a drink in Oct/Nov. Maybe I'll be converted to the 4:17 way of seeing the world especially when surrounded by 100's of gorgeuous ladyboys I can ST for 1000 baht. Cheers and just two months and 10 days to Patts! Randi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4:17 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The wimpy "picket fencer" says ... maybe I'll be converted to the 4:17 way of seeing the world ... Now now, nothing wrong with the white picket fence; it's just not for me. And I think many guys/gals who do want that fence perhaps go about it the wrong way -- or in an unenlightened way, shall we say -- and there are probably a few (maybe even a lot) who aren't fence sitters at all, but just haven't figured it out yet. Like I said in the other thread, you seem to have your eyes open and your wits about you and seem to know what you're on about, so I think you've got a fair shot at your own version of the white picket fence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendoUK Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 When I came back before my October trip last year I had a similar epiphany a few days before I went out due to things happening to friends and family, I realised life was too short to hold back and I just needed to live every minute and have fun as I saw fit, especially while I was in LOS and BOY did I have fun that trip. From quite a young age I realised I couldn't see myself making a good parent and when my most recent GG relationship in the UK broke down a couple of years ago I realised I was better of just saving my romancing for when I got into the kingdom. I think if I went down that GG path again now it would end up being a total sham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblebee Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Being honest with yourself about your sexuality and what you want from life is the big step it seems. Many people seem to hide behind the facade of normality to please others. For sure some of us hide our LB activities from our family and friends, but at least we have the balls to go out and deal with these desires in SE Asia and elsewhere. How many guys keep these desires pent up and never act upon them, staying at home and never stepping out. That is the real shame, not being able to be who you are, even for a short holiday in Los. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimslim Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Many people seem to hide behind the facade of normality to please others. Society puts massive pressure on people to conform to what is commonly accepted as the norm . Anyone who steps outside the rules is treated as a bit different or eccentric or just plain weird in some quarters . Get married , have kids , get a mortgage , new car every few years , flat screen TV , Sky subscription , 2 weeks holiday in the same place every year , latest phone , watch mind numbing shit on TV every night ..... all the consumer madness - this is what is commonly accepted as "Normal " I applaud anyone who rejects that vision and who does their own thing . I know I'm seen as a little different by many of my friends , I wish I had a pound for every time I got " No word of you settling down again ? " I've lived that life and got out of it and am far happier now than I was back then . We will never be totally free but this is the closest we will get to doing what we want to do, we should grasp that chance with both hands and live life to the full because many will never get that chance . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSam Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Good post Jim. I concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shikariman Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 A slightly different perspective on Jimslims quote: "Society puts massive pressure on people to conform to what is commonly accepted as the norm ." I had the good fortune from an early age to spend most of my life working overseas / offshore and managed to snag some absolute honeys from the local GG population, without doing P4P, which I never enjoyed. When I had lost most of my hair and money and went back to the UK, I found that I was 20 years older than anything I found remotely attractive and unsurprisingly , they weren't the slightest bit interested in me , as , apart from the age thing, I had a big flashing sign over me, saying commitment aphobe. By that stage I was moving more to the dark side anyway and I found that irrespective of the Baht or Peso, 'one of ours' tended to appreciate guys who genuinely found them more interesting than their sisters and made that much more of an effort to entice you . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strocube Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Oh man, this thread got me thinking. You know boys, I just spent a little over two months in Medellin with a very sweet, no hassle girl. Got me thinking all the usual stuff about long term relationships, etc. It was hard to leave, but leave I did. No promises for any future meeting, all good, yet . . . Damn if I wasn't considering relocating there and startin a regular middle lass life as a committed couple with her. Still not sure how that will play out. I am currently in the midst of some very deep personal work with various plant medicines in Peru, so I have no idea how I'll feel or how things will look to me when I leave here in early October. I do know, that right now, I would really love to spend an extended period of time in the LOS fucking as many ladyboys and femboys as I can possibly manage. So who fuck knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I was married for twenty-three years...Been a single man now for twenty-two years... Those twenty-three years were some of the best years of my life...Produced a child...My immortality... If I had to stack those twenty-three years against these last twenty-two years...The twenty-three would win...Being free is in your mind and your spirit...Not in where or how you live or with whom you live.... I think I might understand a bit of what some of you are saying though...But I truly miss the mortgages and car payments...The school plays and teacher meetings...The soccer games and Christmas shopping...The bickering and the making up...Feeling responsible for another human... I understand most of you can't miss those things cause you never had them... However, you should all be thankful that there are folks who opt for the mainstream lifestyle...We call them mothers and fathers...And if it wasn't for your mothers and fathers and their "normal" lifestyle, you couldn't be here now enjoying your "alternate" lifestyles... BTW: What the fuck does True Grit have to do with any of this... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSam Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 All very true Kahuna, very true. Well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4:17 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 BTW: What the fuck does True Grit have to do with any of this... I think BB was alluding to the fact that the protaganist of True Grit, the teenage girl Mattie Ross, led an unconventional life -- an alternative one, if you will. She certainly didn't conform to the stereotype of the teenage girl in the late 1800s when the Western U.S. was still being settled (when she narrates the story it's in the late 1920s, if I recall correctly, when she is an old woman -- but it's been many years since I read it). One of my favorite quotes from the book (assuming that I transcribed it right; I gave away my copy years ago): “People do not give it credence that a 14-year-old girl would leave home and go off in the wintertime to avenge her father's death but it did not seem so strange then, although I will say it did not happen every day. I was just fourteen years of age when a coward going by the name of Tom Chaney shot my father down in Fort Smith, Arkansas, and robbed him of his life ... ” Being free is in your mind and your spirit...Not in where or how you live or with whom you live.... I have to respectfully yet whole-heartedly disagree with this; I would say how you choose to live has everything to do with being free. And each choice you make in life has a subsequent impact on how you can live your life and how free you are to make the choices you want. But then to each his own beliefs. I understand most of you can't miss those things cause you never had them... Again, I have to respectfully disagree; I don't have to be an airline pilot to know I wouldn't enjoy a career as one. The happiest years of your life were in the context of marriage and parenthood (and certainly there's nothing wrong with that); the most miserable of mine were spent chasing the dream of marriage and all it entails. I spent half my adult life chasing that monogamous white-picket-fence dream, and for every day I was happy -- and there were some glorious, ecstatic, wonderful days -- there were many more days I was miserably unhappy, and many others still where I was just tired, bored and indifferent (the worst of all). This includes a three year stretch of dating, living together and an engagement; I'm pretty sure I know what I'd be getting into if I got married and consequently know I don't want that, as it's not going to make me happy. Coincidentally the happiest times of my life as an adult have been the years I gave up chasing that dream and resolved to merely do what I found fulfilling -- what *did* make me happy (within reason, of course). By the same token, I've gotten at least somewhat of an idea of what being a parent entails; I've watched my brother raise his children; I was with him at the hospital when his first son was born, and I was there to witness his first steps. As much as I love those kids, I don't want any of my own. If something happened to him would I head back home and step up to the responsibility plate? Of course I would; I've been asked to promise as much should that terrible possibility arise. Do I want to seek out that responsibility on my own? Nope. I'm not knocking people who do; good on 'em, those that do. It's just not for me. What I don't understand are the people that chase these dreams with blinders on in the most unlikeliest of places, or those that are clearly trying to shoehorn their square selves into the round hole society and culture have prepared for them, never stopping to consider why they are unhappy and what they could do about it. What's worse are those that dream about doing it, but for whatever reason, can't or won't. I'm not condemning them, judging them, or ridiculing them; I just think it's a bit tragic, really. But such is the human condition. *shrugs* However, you should all be thankful that there are folks who opt for the mainstream lifestyle...We call them mothers and fathers...And if it wasn't for your mothers and fathers and their "normal" lifestyle, you couldn't be here now enjoying your "alternate" lifestyles... Do you assume we don't? I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here -- far from it -- and I can only speak for myself of course, but I'm eternally grateful to my parents for providing the loving, stable, two-parent home in which I grew up. I told them this often in the years before they died, and I'm further grateful to the powers that be that they lived long enough for me to grow up enough to appreciate just how fortunate I am. Ironically, they often said the same things I've heard for the last decade or so of my life, some of the things you've said above: "you can't imagine how wonderful it is until you have children of your own, and/or are married to your one and only. You just haven't found the right one, etc." And the big argument to counter the wayward son: "Where would the world be if everyone thought like you?" To which I would always answer: "Well, there would be fewer people in the world, less strain on the environment and more resources to go around or last longer, and fewer people who shouldn't be raising children (who are in spite of that). "You have to understand (Mom, Dad, et al), my choice of paths isn't a condemnation or veiled criticism of yours, or anyone else's for that matter. It's simply the choice I want to make, as it's the one that makes me the most happy." It seems people rarely understand that, though. I've had this conversation a zillion times, it seems, not just with them over the years, but siblings, extended family and my straight breeder friends -- some of whom are very dear, close friends -- back home. *shrugs* 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSam Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 4:17 Eloquently well put also. I fully understand and appreciate both views on the subject. The important thing for all of us to remember is one approach does does not suit everyone. If it did we'd all be living in black and white Pleasantville (the movie). I have gone back and forth between the two lifestyles in the same way as I go back and forth between GGs and LBs. Like I said, I understand and appreciate both so it really depends on the way I am feeling at any particular time of my life. I have been married and have a child. My marriage was the worse 10 years of my life. My daughter has and continues to represent the best years. I value the freedom to make individual life choices and respect the choices made by others. Hail Mary to that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblebee Posted September 9, 2012 Author Share Posted September 9, 2012 BTW: What the fuck does True Grit have to do with any of this... While 4.17 makes a good case for the movie, I had more in mind the meaning of the words. Basically I was referring to guys who have the confidence to make a lifestyle choice that most people would consider non conventional. http://thesaurus.com/browse/true+grit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Basically I was referring to guys who have the confidence to make a lifestyle choice that most people would consider non conventional. In my mind it doesn't take much grit to make that choice if "most people" back home don't know you have made that choice...It surely didn't take much grit for me to initially make that choice...(damn, I split an infinitive)... It would however, in my mind, take a great deal of grit for me to tell everyone in my little world that I like to suck pretty boy's cocks... And while I truly don't miss being an airline pilot, cause I have never been an airline pilot, being stuck here in the States, I truly do miss sucking a pretty boy's cock, cause I truly am a Ladyboy Worshiping Dicksucker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 What I don't understand are the people that chase these dreams with blinders on in the most unlikeliest of places, or those that are clearly trying to shoehorn their square selves into the round hole society and culture have prepared for them, never stopping to consider why they are unhappy and what they could do about it. What's worse are those that dream about doing it, but for whatever reason, can't or won't. I'm not condemning them, judging them, or ridiculing them; I just think it's a bit tragic, really. But such is the human condition. Excellent post 4:17, very nicely put. The above quote struck a chord with me because it is a sentiment I have long observed. I can never understand how seemingly intelligent people can live their lives with such little oversight. Lemming-like, they lock themselves into unhappy lives with a wife they don't like, a job they can't stand, children who may or may not be a blessing & the prospect of death, their only escape. That of course does not apply to the many who wouldn't have it any other way. The guys who have never stopped loving their wife & have a totally fulfilling work life. Lucky them. But I refer to the many conversations I have had with guys who yearn for more. Who quiz me about every part of my visits to LOS & live vicariously through the heavily censored information I choose to share. In the past 10 years, several of these men found themselves single. And within two or three years, they all had remarried. I have asked them what happened to their dream of a better life. They think they have found a better life. It isn't my place to suggest they haven't, I know now that what they talk about wanting & what they will settle for are two different things. Either they lack the courage to move out of their comfort zone or they have separated their fantasy world from a self-imposed obligation to conform to society's norms. Or maybe their need to be in love trumps all other considerations? I don't have any special claim to the truth & I can't say they did the wrong thing. But I can see them one day having that moment of clarity when they come to realise that they can't live their life over again & the choice they made wasn't so clever.* And then it will be too late. Carpe diem. * I must add that I wouldn't be criticising them if they had married some super model with 10 million bucks in the bank. These are grandmothers with lots of debt & physical ailments. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4:17 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Thanks Pacman. Wokka wokka wokka. Shit, now I have the theme from the video game stuck in my head. You know, I was thinking about this thread the other day after my last post, and I really think everyone -- even those on the fence or on opposite sides of the fence -- are in the same boat, ultimately. I'll see your split infinitives and raise you a mixed metaphor. At the end of the day, everyone is at least ostensibly trying to be happy. I think the trick is figuring out what makes you happy. Obviously that's not the same for everyone. The thing is, for some people, they may have expectations about what makes them happy, and when that doesn't pan out, it leaves them up a creek in the aforementioned boat without a paddle. "WTF do I do now?" And this works both ways. Not everybody is happy being the consummate butterfly man who truly loves all of his ladies but never settles down with just one (beyond a night -- they really do have hearts of gold, most of 'em, but that doesn't mean I want to settle down with 'em. ) Sometimes discovering what makes you happy may be a matter of stepping out of cultural norms and social and familial expectations -- this requiring the aforementioned grit -- but I think for many more it's simply a matter of knowing yourself and finding out what works for oneself (as others have stated previously) -- what makes one happy. Dog knows it took me a long time to figure it out for myself; I spent some time up that creek sans paddle before I realized I was happiest being a ramblin' man -- and at least a few (Mekong) delta women think the world of me, as a result. Ha! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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