Likely Contenders for Thailand's #1 Ladyboy Bar of 2023

[Pulci Gorgon]

21 minutes ago, The-Sith said:

thanks for your comments @Pulci Gorgon.

 

I just want to be clear....I don't think anyone here is like the IOC nor do I think anyone here is filthy nor a criminal.

I'm not sure of what you call IOC, but I think that Moderating a forum requires a sense of responsibility. You can't assume that I see them as filthy criminal but cynical idiots is different. They pretended to manipulate mongers, they will loose their business. 

BTW, I wonder who's SD. I don't think that Snoopdwag is the guy you're talking about. 

[Woodie]

3 hours ago, Pulci Gorgon said:

 

Skipping the answer. How cnadid you are about ownership in Thailand. If you had explored the country a bit deeper, you'd know that farangs aren't the "official" owner of their business all the time. A country fellow explained me the whole system. All the businesses are registered in the name of his Thai wife, but he has in his safe deposit box promissory notes duly drafted by a lawyer he generously paid. That rascal Petesie is familiar with the system, as he himself has explained the ins and outs of the lease agreements at LBR. It's evident that he's the one who established it, and his partner, at best, shares co-management responsibilities.

More obvious, Rom doesn't want to add this dive bar with lofty ladyboys claims since he fears me to vote for this seedy place. 

 

You have got it bad!

So now you are the purveyer of all knowledge of Thailand as well as Vietnam.

I wrote what Petesie told me. As you were there you would know that. I am assuming you were there by your statement. I did not claim to know everything about Thailand

unlike yourself. A certain whiff of arrogance is apparent.

Read what I wrote, not what you THINK I wrote.

[The-Sith]

13 hours ago, Pulci Gorgon said:

@The-Sith wonderful post, especially your paragraph dealing with Obsessions. I had enjoyed the place when I visited during the off-peak season before the COVID outbreak. Perhaps I focused too much on a star, but I hadn't found everyladyboy outshining there. I think I had already commented  somewhere in the forum. 

 

I would like to react on a few of your comments though. 

 

I'm surprised to read it posted by an American guy. What you post about "We pay. We get" seemed typically American to me. May I add that European people can be demanding, wanting more while paying less at times. It sounds normal to pay to get and pay more to get more. 

BUT
I felt comfortable with this concept as long as we played the game with low rates countries. If I hadn't read about cheap prices in Thailand in the 2000s, I wouldn't have gotten airline tickets in the 2010s. Some cynical idiots called me a cheap charlie but I could see during my trips that Asia that countries are no longer third world nations, especially Thailand and that p4p scenes are vanishing as they did in Europe from the 1960s to the 2000s. 
I noticed that many BMs either in this board or other ones withdraw from the scene without notice nor warning. They just decide it's no longer worth the price. I'm afraid I will be one of them within a few years, or I will find another scene to have fun somewhere else in the world. 
This is probably, in a way, what Rom was trying to pull off in Madagascar. I wish he had found better opportunities. But Madagascar is also far as far as airline ticket prices are concerned. Airline ticket prices are also another issue. 

Now Thailand will follow  quality policies similar to what happens in the car industries or other industries. There will be higher quality for those who can afford it but only for a happy few. 

 

I have no inclination to engage with individuals who display such behaviours that lead us to call them PY. I think that Rom thinks more or less the same. 

The IOC is the International Olympic Committee which makes decisions on selecting cities and who is cheating and punishments etc....they are the ones that picked Beijing for summer and winter within a 14 year period which is unprecedented that the same city does that so quickly and there is a genocide happening and then Russian athletes caught red handed with a piss exchange factory for covering up testing and they still get to compete but as a "federation" etc..... it's a corrupt group.

 

 

I am afraid (and also glad) that Trans women and their amazing beauty and attributes have taken over men's imagination and affection all over the world. Men from all over now are interested in trying trans women and many are getting into it.

 

25 years ago it was something exclusive to a drunk late night walk home in Jakarta or Pat Pong where an unsuspecting dude bumped into a girl who took him to a hotel and found a cock under the sexy dress. Today it's a click of a mouse and a tug at your dick away to start the journey and men are finding they have trans women in their neighborhoods in some countries and those that don't? ..... they are flying in droves to the one place they know does.....Thailand.

Scores of men from all over.... and those places that have money (like Asians) and those that have a culture where prostitution is normal (like Asians) understand that you can buy women and the more you pay....the better you get.

 

Americans are not there yet because only two groups have traditionally engaged prostitutes in American. The dregs of society and the ultra rich. Everyone in between was taught its bad and there are harsh rules against it too so it was mostly for men who had experience in other nations where it was ok. That's changed significantly over the past 15 years with the internet and Asian and Russian immigrants but it's still taboo and many men don't know how to properly behave with p4p here.

Not true for the average Asian bloke who enjoys p4p and does business over p4p and even goes out for nights with friends engaging in p4p while the latter happens for Americans on their "stag night". Poor fellows.

 

If you come to Asia to whore.... you have to adapt to the local whore culture.

 

1. Buying drinks.....because this is baked into the business model.

2. having a bunch of girls at your table that you are buying drinks for because again....it's the business model.

3. Bar fine and take a girl eventually.... or 2 or 3!

4. Tips for the ladies that played with you but you didn't take. Mama San drinks and tip are extra and discretionary but recommended if you want her help for anything.

5. if you don't want to do these local behaviors.....then do it on a small scale with a drink for yourself and one girl you buy drinks for..... or just for yourself.

6. If you don't do even 5 then obviously you are totally out of line and it's not their fault for being pushy.... it's your fault for not being aware.

7. the popularity and wide spread acceptance of LBs drives prices up fast and compelling me to earn more money. It's fun being a "Two Week Millionaire" and there will be a time a decade or two in the future you will need to be an actual millionaire to participate in the LB gogobar night life.

8. the alternative is digging deeper and doing more work off the beaten track like in Issan and VN and Cambodia and Laos....which in its own right has its own rewards because the girls are so hot there and for some of us (like me) the chase and hunt is a lot of fun too!

 

The secret has been discovered..... ladyboys are awesome. Prices are going up.

[Pulci Gorgon]

@The-Sith 

 

Quote

The IOC is the International Olympic Committee which makes decisions on selecting cities and who is cheating and punishments etc....they are the ones that picked Beijing for summer and winter within a 14 year period which is unprecedented that the same city does that so quickly and there is a genocide happening and then Russian athletes caught red handed with a piss exchange factory for covering up testing and they still get to compete but as a "federation" etc..... it's a corrupt group.

I'm afraid that the PY folks aren't any better than the IOC gangsters. They operate with the same spirit of bad faith. They simply have far less power but don't hesitate to abuse it for rather trivial profits.

Quote

Americans are not there yet because only two groups have traditionally engaged prostitutes in American. The dregs of society and the ultra rich.

You forgot to mention a third category. If you look at it carefully, you'll notice that ladyboys bar developped in areas around US Navy and USAF bases. When the US armed forces go, ladyboys activities decline. 

Quote

 

If you come to Asia to whore.... you have to adapt to the local whore culture.

1. Buying drinks.....because this is baked into the business model.

2. having a bunch of girls at your table that you are buying drinks for because again....it's the business model.

3. Bar fine and take a girl eventually.... or 2 or 3!

4. Tips for the ladies that played with you but you didn't take. Mama San drinks and tip are extra and discretionary but recommended if you want her help for anything.

5. if you don't want to do these local behaviors.....then do it on a small scale with a drink for yourself and one girl you buy drinks for..... or just for yourself.

6. If you don't do even 5 then obviously you are totally out of line and it's not their fault for being pushy.... it's your fault for not being aware.

7. the popularity and wide spread acceptance of LBs drives prices up fast and compelling me to earn more money. It's fun being a "Two Week Millionaire" and there will be a time a decade or two in the future you will need to be an actual millionaire to participate in the LB gogobar night life.

8. the alternative is digging deeper and doing more work off the beaten track like in Issan and VN and Cambodia and Laos....which in its own right has its own rewards because the girls are so hot there and for some of us (like me) the chase and hunt is a lot of fun too!

 

 

This is not THE business model in Asia. This is A business model that appeals to certain Westerner  including American customers. But it's easy to find a couple more business models as far as ladyboys are concerned. It's hafway between the search of a girlfriend (that one will have to pay) for a short term relationship and p4p or it's a world of freelancers that are pushed out of the street by local polices but develop in Internet.  It works pretty well in the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Cambodia and Vietnam as I experienced it
 

The difference with the above model is that it more pricey. I even experienced it in Thailand in Chiang Mai, Udon Thani, Ubon Ratchathani, Si Sa Ket, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen, Koh Chang, Hua Hin, Phuket, Ao Nang Hat Yai, but also in Bangkok and Pattaya.I'm referring to places I've visited, where I encountered this different approach.

 

22 hours ago, Woodie said:

You have got it bad!

So now you are the purveyer of all knowledge of Thailand as well as Vietnam.

I wrote what Petesie told me. As you were there you would know that. I am assuming you were there by your statement. I did not claim to know everything about Thailand

unlike yourself. A certain whiff of arrogance is apparent.

Read what I wrote, not what you THINK I wrote.

 

You're being ridiculous. You're creating a controversy out of trifles. I didn't merely confine myself to a Paattaya ladyboys bar, passively listening to the boss, who leveraged his role as a forum moderator to promote ideas that favored his business while alcohol clouded my judgment. Instead, I engaged with a diverse array of individuals, carefully sifting through fellow countrymen I spoke with, and found some interesting insights. I suggest you check out the above lists, rather than getting lost in your passive-aggressive tendencies.

[Woodie]

1 hour ago, Pulci Gorgon said:

@The-Sith 

 

I'm afraid that the PY folks aren't any better than the IOC gangsters. They operate with the same spirit of bad faith. They simply have far less power but don't hesitate to abuse it for rather trivial profits.

You forgot to mention a third category. If you look at it carefully, you'll notice that ladyboys bar developped in areas around US Navy and USAF bases. When the US armed forces go, ladyboys activities decline. 

 

This is not THE business model in Asia. This is A business model that appeals to certain Westerner  including American customers. But it's easy to find a couple more business models as far as ladyboys are concerned. It's hafway between the search of a girlfriend (that one will have to pay) for a short term relationship and p4p or it's a world of freelancers that are pushed out of the street by local polices but develop in Internet.  It works pretty well in the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Cambodia and Vietnam as I experienced it
 

The difference with the above model is that it more pricey. I even experienced it in Thailand in Chiang Mai, Udon Thani, Ubon Ratchathani, Si Sa Ket, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen, Koh Chang, Hua Hin, Phuket, Ao Nang Hat Yai, but also in Bangkok and Pattaya.I'm referring to places I've visited, where I encountered this different approach.

 

 

You're being ridiculous. You're creating a controversy out of trifles. I didn't merely confine myself to a Paattaya ladyboys bar, passively listening to the boss, who leveraged his role as a forum moderator to promote ideas that favored his business while alcohol clouded my judgment. Instead, I engaged with a diverse array of individuals, carefully sifting through fellow countrymen I spoke with, and found some interesting insights. I suggest you check out the above lists, rather than getting lost in your passive-aggressive tendencies.

You really have your knickers in a twist.

You make up stories to suit the narrative. Have you a very boring life?. Fortunately I never drink to the stage that you seem to so alcohol does not cloud my judgement.

Talk about passive aggressive. You been looking in the mirror?.

[Zeppie]

15 hours ago, The-Sith said:

The IOC is the International Olympic Committee which makes decisions on selecting cities and who is cheating and punishments etc....they are the ones that picked Beijing for summer and winter within a 14 year period which is unprecedented that the same city does that so quickly and there is a genocide happening and then Russian athletes caught red handed with a piss exchange factory for covering up testing and they still get to compete but as a "federation" etc..... it's a corrupt group.

.

Agreed!!!......all the world type organization are hopelessly corrupted and sold to the highest bidder.....China!!!....and I mean all of them..........it is time for the USA to get out of them and stop giving money to the corruptted.........kick the UN out of America.......fuck them pigs......

[Pdoggg]

17 hours ago, The-Sith said:

having a bunch of girls at your table that you are buying drinks for 

 

I have a buddy that loves splashing the cash in the top GG gogos.  Since he's financially well off it's no big deal but he wouldn't want to spend what it takes to do this in Vegas.  We all learned as teenagers to get girls drunk!    

17 hours ago, The-Sith said:

small scale with a drink for yourself and one girl you buy drinks for.

This is the MO of budget minded expats who want to get to know a girl before barfining her.  For some, it's just one drink before the decision to barfine or not.   But if the bar experience is enjoyable and not simply a means to an end then it could be multiple drinks.  Of course one can just use Thai Friendly or other apps for 1000 baht sex reasoning that the cheapest bars would be about 500 baht for 1 drink for you, 1 drink for the girl, and the barfine so for just an extra 500 baht you get sex and if it's not good so what.  But for some saving money is not important and they don't want to waste time with someone they wish wasn't there once they open the door.

In Pattaya girls are available for guys on just about any budget.   But some guys prefer to pay more to get the experience that suits them.

17 hours ago, The-Sith said:

baked into the business model

There's a 80/20 business axiom that states 80% of profits come from 20% of customers.  I wonder if this is true in the Thai bar business?

[Zeppie]

In Vegas, they call them whales............what do they call them in TH.......

[The-Sith]

16 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

I have a buddy that loves splashing the cash in the top GG gogos.  Since he's financially well off it's no big deal but he wouldn't want to spend what it takes to do this in Vegas.  We all learned as teenagers to get girls drunk!    

This is the MO of budget minded expats who want to get to know a girl before barfining her.  For some, it's just one drink before the decision to barfine or not.   But if the bar experience is enjoyable and not simply a means to an end then it could be multiple drinks.  Of course one can just use Thai Friendly or other apps for 1000 baht sex reasoning that the cheapest bars would be about 500 baht for 1 drink for you, 1 drink for the girl, and the barfine so for just an extra 500 baht you get sex and if it's not good so what.  But for some saving money is not important and they don't want to waste time with someone they wish wasn't there once they open the door.

In Pattaya girls are available for guys on just about any budget.   But some guys prefer to pay more to get the experience that suits them.

There's a 80/20 business axiom that states 80% of profits come from 20% of customers.  I wonder if this is true in the Thai bar business?

Las Vegas is a suckers game.

American men are 90% suckers because they have been taken down this puritan and emasculated path of having basic male NEEDS be made wrong.

 

So prostitution is totally wrong.

Relations between older males and significantly younger females is totally wrong.

Men with trans women is totally wrong (it's ok for a trans woman...... but the men get judged).

We on LBR have traversed those American taboos which taboos are against our basic male nature.

I want young women.

I want to pay for play.

I want trans women too!

 

But poor poor American men.....they get one chance to party in a way that might be outside of this taboo and that is Las Vegas.

It's the only time for 90% of then where they can engage with prostitutes. It's the only streets they can walk with a young girl and not get sneered. Trans probably still taboo for men to openly enagage in.

 

So when American men go to Las Vegas.... one hour....maybe two hours of very hurried action with an above average but not stellar prostitute will run $2000. This is what my sucker friends were paying.

How much at a brothel? Who knows.

How much for amateurs that are willing to fuck for pay at one of the major night club's? At Hakkasan $800 for a pudgy girl and $1,500 for a hot one, and for an actual hooker.... Sky's the Limit! I can't even guess....but I'm assuming it starts at $5k and goes up from there.

 

This was on my last trip to Vegas about 7 years ago.....which was excruciatingly boring for me...... like a 30 year old going to a high school party where the fun consists of chugging brews and "Spin the Bottle". So fucking lame and the prices for one day and night in Las Vegas are what most lads spend on a two week trip to Thailand.

A bunch of us dropped $25,000 for a table at a club with Tiesto (maybe it was Tryst?). He was so pathetic and I almost left. The girls flock to tables and so the 25k gets you babe capture..... girls who have a 10% chance to fuck like any other club in the nation where you are piling girls with drinks..... the technique @Pdoggg so wisely highlighted. Yet a low hit rate.... especially if you are older.

 

Add at LEAST 30% to the prices above given the inflation we experienced in the past 7 years. Maybe add 50%

 

The guys I was with were not whales. They are above average guys earning low to mid six-figure salaries. 

They get to be "MEN" one time per year..... maybe twice. For a weekend only. Maybe only at stags so not even once per year. Maybe one time in their life.

 

One word describes the situation of these American Brothers: PATHETIC.

 

PATHETIC in terms of the ridiculous prices for sex that are 20x to 40x going rates in other markets in Asia.

PATHETIC in terms of the clock watching shitty service compared to other markers in Asia which are professional GFE (because Asian clients demand professionalism while Americans have no clue and take whatever they can get).

PATHETIC in terms of the drink prices and other payments needed to even get to regular girls for no pay......let alone amateurs willing to fuck for some money....... and semi-pros....... and the dreded total professionals that fleece the men there for everything. Drinks and tables are 10x to 30x the rates in Asia (although comparing like for like..... we can't compare Soi Cowboy to Las Vegas and RCA Entertainment Complex to Hakkasan and Tryst.... so maybe closer to 10x to 15x).

 

PATHETIC in terms of men in America so beaten down that any behavior that expresses their basic desires as men is labeled as "Toxic Maculinity" and is made wrong. And American men just lay down and accept that shit..... when a plane ride to BKK and Pattaya and Manila and Singapore and even Macau is a mouse click away and the costs are a tiny fraction, and the fun is a massive multiple.

 

PATHETIC in terms of these poor sods in America who will never know what its like to enjoy hot babes that are ready to serve for fun and pleasure.... where you can walk down the street with two sexy vixens dressed like total sluts that are half your age and giggling and having fun without being made wrong and cancelled (or worse....reported to your community or police)..... and where man can happily cohert with trans women without other women and men making it wrong.

 

BE GRATEFUL You aren't one of these sore lads.

They will pass.....never try.....and never know.

[Pulci Gorgon]

17 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

There's a 80/20 business axiom that states 80% of profits come from 20% of customers.  I wonder if this is true in the Thai bar business?

 I learnt it in management. This is thePareto principle. 80 % of the turnover is generated by 20 % of customers. (My manager called it class A). Eighty percent of the remaining turnover (16%) comes from only 20% of the remaining customers (class B= 16 % of customers). However, the last 4% of turnover is generated by 64% of the customers (class C). My manager aimed to eliminate class C, thinking it was too costly and contributed nothing. The intended result was to create new classes A, B, and C, but this strategy was misguided. In reality, there are no 'small' customers as long as they don't waste our time.

The Pareto principle can also be applied in other economic contexts: 80% of assets are held by just 20% of individuals, and 64% of assets are concentrated among a mere 4% of the population. This means that more than half (51%) of the assets are controlled by less than 1% of the people. I never read about theories on Pareto principle, but you can have a look at Wikipedia. 

17 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

I have a buddy that loves splashing the cash in the top GG gogos.  Since he's financially well off it's no big deal but he wouldn't want to spend what it takes to do this in Vegas.  We all learned as teenagers to get girls drunk!    

When I first arrived in the USA, I was part of a group that included European and Japanese individuals, with just two Americans. One of the Americans had a budget, thanks to his service as an Army veteran. The other guy was the type who loved to splash cash at places like doll houses in Myrtle Beach, which seemed utterly extravagant. He'd wake up the next day with a hangover, lamenting his depleted funds. But then, he'd secure a credit line and find a new job to start the cycle all over again. Unfortunately (or not), European guys like me weren't permitted to work, so we couldn't earn money. It was astonishing to witness how easily one could find employment in the USA and have cash to spend on bars and discos. After I got the clearance to have a self employed job, I saved the money and went back to Europe. 

I guess that the same guy would be a one week millionaire in Pattaya and would even sell his return ticket to keep on partying. But I don't think he found the way to Pattaya. Good for you if you like to attract girls or ladyboys with the smell of your 1,000 THB bills like sh... attracts flies. However, it's not in everyone's culture to do so. 

[Dan Miller]

Just wondering here ... has Mr. Rom already made a decision ?? Hearing continuously these annoying Xmas songs on the radio reminds me the year is going to end quite soon, so which bar will be the lucky one in 2023?

Would be nice if I can congratulate the bar owner in person with this honor, in a little over a week 

[Dan Miller]

On 12/10/2023 at 10:37 AM, Dan Miller said:

Just wondering here ... has Mr. Rom already made a decision ?? Hearing continuously these annoying Xmas songs on the radio reminds me the year is going to end quite soon, so which bar will be the lucky one in 2023?

Would be nice if I can congratulate the bar owner in person with this honor, in a little over a week 

@Rom? 

 

[Rom]

Thanks Dan  No I have not made the decision.  Usually I do it before Xmas but this year I will wait til you go there to take into account your findings...  If I  go in January I will delay it a little longer...

 

[Pdoggg]

Since Cindy's Secrets Pattaya and Peachy Lilly are operated by very well known ladyboys and opened within weeks of each other there will be inevitable comparisons.  I paid a visit last night to both venues.  Here are some quick observations but note these bars are contenders for the 2024 Romscars and not the 2023 Romscars which is what this thread is really about.

Cindy's is a chill bar with spread out out tables and appealing decor.  We sat outside next to the caricatures of some of the staff which I thought was well done and haven't seen in a ladyboy bar before.  Was chatting with Cindy who is very friendly and sets a good tone for the bar.  A friend asked about Areeya and Cindy said Areeya was ther a coupe of nights ago but is now back in Bangkok. It's actually my second visit; had a beer about a week ago very early around 7PM before the bar got going. I sat at the bar and Joy the bartender was friendly in a very nice way.  She seemed to be trying hard to be be a good host rather than trying to just get a drink or a customer. Last night we were sitting outside; the small unnamed soi is a pleasant place to sit.  I liked the music and actually Shazamed two songs which were house remixes of old songs.

Peachy Lily's is on the very busy and high rent LK Metro.  It's a small indoor bar which was previously Pandora which was by far the smallest LK gogo.  I get the impression that Lily's joint is more hands on but probably not with Lily herself.  There is also a very small stage area in the back where two or maybe three ladyboys can dance so it's kind of like a hybrid gogo/lounge bar.  I get the impression it can be a very energetic place.

My beer was 90 baht at Cindy's and 99 baht at Lily's.  But I suppose the big expenses at either place are the ladydrinks and barfines.  My mate bought a 165 ladydrink at Cindy's. He also bought a drink for a beautiful Burmese ladyboy at Lily's but I didn't catch the price. Don't know the price of barfines in either place.  Probably the biggest question is whether or not Cindy's girls expect Bangkok prices if going to your room.

But for many it's all about the girls which is also a matter of taste.  Although it seems Cindy's has a core staff sometimes it's supplemented by Bangkok staff especially for party nights.  Everyone should try both joints they aren't far from each other.  You might like different bars on a different nights depending on your mood.  The music volume is lower at Cindy's.  If you like shooting pool Cindy's is the winner as Lily's doesn't have a pool table.  Both bars have lots of positive qualities; time will tell which one is more successful.

[Pulci Gorgon]

I don't see what's supposed to be funny in  @Pdoggg's pertinent post above. If you're aiming for a touch of humor, consider this scenario: in the end,@Rom will announce the winner as an elderly vagabond, accompanied by a couple of old ladyboys serving drinks from an alcocart on a dull street in Pattaya: Jimmy, also known as Jimbo. 

[Woodie]

Although not a gambler, I would put 10 baht on Cindy's

[Dan Miller]

The year-end is approaching swiftly now, so about time to announce, on behalf of Rom, to you all the winner of the "2023 - Ladyboy bar of the Year" contest.

                      Cindy's Secrets

It's unbelievable what Cindy and her partner Gav have achieved in the past period. Not one, but two successful ladyboy lounge bars open, in both Bangkok and Pattaya. It's really nice to see that all the time, money and energy they have put into this is paying off.

Yesterday I finally managed to get both of them to the same location to hand over the certificates, which deserve a nice spot on the wall in their bars. Both were very pleased and Gav has promised to provide LBR with some new updates on a more regular basis.

All that remains for me to do is to thank Rom for his annual commitment (mind you, this year this award celebrates its twenty-fifth anniversary!) and of course all BMs who have contributed to the election through their opinions.

Here the happy couple with the awards and Cindy with her girls in Bangkok: