Why Didn’t We Learn From Vietnam?

[Lefty]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/12/08/why-didnt-we-learn-from-vietnam/

 

By the War’s end, Individual soldiers deserted in huge numbers, whole units refused to fight, there was rebellion in some Barracks, and numerous incidents of fragging, some preceded by warnings to officers and non-coms to back off, others not.

There were large mass demonstrations at home in America and the situation became so dire, that President Lyndon Johnson was told by his advisers and the Ruling Cabal that he must step aside and could not run for a second term.

Most of this was kept from the American public by a Controlled Major Mass Media (CMMM) which served in most cases as official USG propaganda dispensers.

 

The Vietnam War was botched from the very start and craftily set up before hand by top Policy-Makers that turned on their WW2 allies Chiang Kai-shek and Ho Chi Minh. Various machinations were enacted to divide Korea and Vietnam politically and set up both wars. Both wars were completely mishandled and illegal from the get go.  the very enemies fought were created, built up and armed by the private City of London Central Banksters and their Wall Street Franchise Banks including the Federal Reserve.

What Vietnam did to the American soldier sent to fight on the front lines there was evil beyond what most could ever imagine.

Vietnam was an especially twisted and sick situation with America’s finest sent into a hellhole strictly for perpetual war profits for the defense industry and politicians receiving fat kickbacks. It’s as simple and criminal as that, sorry to say.

These fine men and women American soldiers were served up as cannon-fodder, poorly armed, poorly supplied and poor;y managed. For a nation’s top Policy-Makers (only several men) to send American soldiers into such an un-winnable mess such as Vietnam is not only unforgivable, it is as criminally sociopathic as one can imagine under any circumstances.

Those who resisted the draft, went AWOL or deserted were considered traitors by the powers that be and the establishment, when actually it was just the opposite. These scum that set up and sent the troops to this illegal war were self-absorbed criminal sociopaths (just like today) who ALWAYS had other folks doing the front-line fighting, never themselves.

When the Vietnam War ended many thought it would be the end of such illegal, unprovoked, unConstitutional, undeclared American foreign wars...

[cobber32]

One answer to the question you pose is that politicians (governments) are not the people actually out in the field doing the fighting. From the comparative safety of their offices, they run the show, and get to go home most nights and live in comparative comfort, while the servicemen and women are out there doing the dirty work.

 

Your comments are about America and its people - I can tell you that in Australia things were similar; and all these years after, when a lot of truths were revealed as lies, it has left many of us scarred emotionally. Mates and people I never knew died and suffered for nothing, and that leaves a very sour taste in my mouth.

 

I went to (then) South Vietnam in 1966/67 as a young officer, doing what I believed was my duty - the "right thing".  Now .... I agree with you: "Why did we not learn ...?"     It makes me wonder if we (governments) ever will learn!

 

Thanks for the interesting topic. I don't often get worked up about a subject, (other than over sexual matters) and I'd be interested to hear other views and comments.

[rxpharm]

There is another reason Lefty, one that many dismiss as a loonie left wing conspiracy theory but I think has some validity. The military industrial complex makes tremendous amounts of money because of war, and when there is fear of external threats.

 

They have multitudes of lobbyists with tons of funding to influence politicians to pass policies that generate more profits for these companies.

 

Of course this isn't the only reason, but I think it does play a part of why the US is so involved in these situations.

[pdogg]

One answer to the question you pose is that politicians (governments) are not the people actually out in the field doing the fighting. From the comparative safety of their offices, they run the show, and get to go home most nights and live in comparative comfort, while the servicemen and women are out there doing the dirty work.

 

Well said Cobber!   

 

And a warm welcome back to my good buddy Lefty!   

[SiamSam]

Yes, welcome back Lefty! We missed you. Hope you are well.

[strocube]

I think you are failing to grock the situation in its fullness. The Vietnam war was not a "failure" for the military industrial complex (MIC). In fact, many contractors made a killing, pun intended. It was all about money from the get go. The Gulf Of Tonkin incident was pure propaganda and the flimsiest casus beli (pretext for war). They also destroyed Vietnam so as to make an example of it, lest any other countries in the region start getting any ideas about trying to do what they deemed best for their people instead of allowing themselves to be exploited by US geopolitical and corporate interests.

It is the business of this Empire to go around the world and foment as much strife, conflict and chaos as it can. This is what it does. It makes money this way.

[xyzzy]

You have an all volunteer military now. Would Iraq and Afghanistan be able to last as long if the sons and daughters of America were being drafted? Just adds to the problem IMO.

[azza33]

No mention of Extraterrestrials ... suprising

[KenW]

Interesting topic Lefty; thank you.

 

I agree with all said above about the military industrial complex, evil cabals and so on. But it raises some further issues which as far as I know have never been discussed publicly, or written about. (Or is it just that I've had my antennae folded up for too long.)

 

For example, the war in Vietnam was happening and would have happened (along what paths no one can ever know, for we can't re-wind the tape of history). As a civil war of basically communist sympathisers versus others. However all were nationalists, even the very bad guys like Ngo Dinh Diem (president of then South VN) and his crowd. They all wanted the French to leave (achieved after Dien Bien Phu in 1953 - ? I forget date). They all wanted the world to leave them alone until, until, until, it became clear that the communists were going to win the election the UN mandated for 1955. Those elections were never held as Diem and the US conspired to begin anti-communist military involvement. Anyway, enough lecture; I'm sure you all know all that. But the underlying point is: that evil complex you guys refer to, stepped opportunistically into a situation already on the boil. Yes it had to construct a Tonkin incident etc. But that was all justification, not incitement per se.

 

Second point: yes the western (especially US) armaments industry benefited hugely as it still does from such conflicts. But what about the North VNese? They were basically armed by the then Soviet Union and China (MIGs, Kalashnikovs, anti-aircraft guns, even advisors on the ground). Who paid for that? I have never heard a word about VN paying off financial debts to their allies' war industries. Was it just comrade donations? On that side of the evil armaments industry the world remains silent.

 

Third: yes there were unnecessary and immoral cannon fodder casualties from US, Australia, South Korea, New Zealand, etc. But never forget that a still unaccounted number of VNese lost their lives too (estimates fly around here of up to maybe 2 million people). Had the US never got involved there would have still been VNese casualties as in any civil war. But nowhere near the number eventually taken out by napalm, B52s and all the rest. Many who write about the war or reminisce about it, even today, discuss the horror as if VN and the VNese were just a backdrop to the American suffering. There were real grandmothers and real infants dying here in huge numbers.

 

I could go on. But enough. Fascinating thread that really got last night's beer cobwebs shaken out on a Saturday morning. Thanks again.

[Lefty]

hope ya all didn't just read the part I copied and pasted. Click on the link if you've not done so, and it covers a whole lot more of the decades before the VN War, things to do with WW2, etc. Some of it is so wild, not sure even I can believe it. 

[deepthroat]

Glad to see you're back Lefty, I've missed you.

I don't think we'll ever agree on the whole "JFK assassination conspiracy" thing, but at least we can both agree that Vietnam was a total cluster.

[JaiDee]

I have studied that war extensively and once we got mixed up in Iraq and Afghanistan I couldn't believe the parallels.....it's like we never learned a thing the first time around, amazing really.

[pacman]

All the denials about the invasion of Iraq being about claiming their oil were knocked out of the park when it was revealed that the day before the swearing in of the new government of Iraq, the new leader Iyad Allawi was handed a bundle of documents that had to be agreed to. This bundle ran to some 1000 pages & Allawi & his staff only had one day to vet it. He knew what he was looking for & they worked into the night until they found the page that committed Iraq to signing over their oil forever. It was very fortunate Allawi could read English.

 

He removed the page, signed the agreement & was sworn in the next day.

 

One can only wonder at the reaction of Dick Cheney & the rest of the Neo-Cons when they learnt the news. Not a good day at the office.