Hugo Chavez-R.I.P.

[pacman]

Paccers, and  your fellow born-again christian right-wingers , 

 

Really? I assume you mean this is some metaphorical sense. You don't know my politics or my religion. Most days I'm atheist anyway.

 

Chavez was one of the good guys, simple as that, really.

Thatcher, GW,=evil

Chavez, Castro= good

I'm sure y'all deep down agree, no matter how the ignorant bastards at Fox news slice it 

 

You forgot Kim Jong Un. He's another Socialist hero. 

As for the rest, you know my feelings about Chavez & GW, Castro is an idiot who consigned his country to irrelevance & Maggie was good for the country, not so good for those who she crushed.

 

The real heroes of the left who left the greatest legacies are Deng Xiaoping & Wen Jiabao. Deng particularly was the greatest reformer of the 20th century & by extension, history's greatest ever reformer. Wen carried on the work.

 

When people think of modern China they think of Mao. Mao was responsible for the deaths of 40 million people & the Cultural Revolution. Deng was locked up twice by Mao yet emerged from the shadows to completely outscore Mao in relevance & importance.

 

Viva la revolution!

[williethepimp]

I have never argued that Chavez hasn't helped the poor, what I do criticise is the damage he caused while in office. I know many forgive him for that because of the good he did. I can't. It didn't have to be that way. His time in office saw widespread cronyism, damage to the environment, a soaring crime rate, the nationalisation of industry with the loss of the educated professionals, etc. Plus his hatred of the US & the UK saw him involved with some of the less savory regimes going. He helped finance Hezbollah & the IRA, he supported Almandinajad & Ghaddafi, he aided Colombian drug cartels (allegedly).

 

One man's saint is another man's criminal. It's a jolly good debate though.         

The IRA-? did siam sam pass you his crack pipe paccers...........?   An awful lot of allegedlys in your posts paccers......allegedly they were all complete fabrications by the good ol boys running faux news...

[pacman]

I'll retract the IRA from my last post. I couldn't remember who else he paid so I popped them in knowing someone would correct me.

 

I'm sure Saddam Hussein sent the IRA money but there was someone else giving them aid. Not Chavez apparently.

 

And for all Hugo's supporters, I just read the most glowing account of what a wonderful chap he was. It must be by a left wing writer with an agenda. Or not. A nice obituary though.

 

We come to LBR for the girls, we stay for the education.

[rxpharm]

The real truth is probably somewhere in between. Not an angel, and not a demon. The real measure would be was Venezuela better off before he took over? In some respects it was - and in others it was not. The poor are better off, but is the country's development better? Are there more opportunities for people in general?

 

I think it is a bit of a wash, but things don't look too bright economically for them. High inflation, no real diversification from oil, the loss of people who could innovate. What will happen to the country once the oil revenues decrease - there doesn't seem to be any provision for that.

[Jimslim]

 He gave the poor something they never had - education, subsidised food, access to nationalised land for farming, no one had ever given them a break before. I described it as a bribe before & in any sense of the word, offering freebies to those with nothing is a bribe.

 

I'm surprised at you Paccer's why do you have to assume that everyone does something for a price ?

 

Freebies ? C'mon its about trying to improve the lot of fellow human beings who have nothing .

 

He helped the poor because it was the correct thing to do and what all decent societies should do .

[iceberg]

GLAD HE'S DEAD SORRY WILLIETHEPIMP! BUT THIS MOTHERFUCKER WAS EVIL!!!!

 

Also fuck most of the Palestinien motherfuckers! (Arab Scum) and I support Isreal! for sure!

 

I hate ("socialist,communist!) assholes! Fuckem'!

 

Especially, the POTUS!!! This bastard! makes me hate my country,and that really sucks for sure!

 

He and his wife, really suck for America! and I can't believe he was elected for a 2nd term! America,really sucks now IMHO!

 

To quote his bitch, "I'm really ashamed of America now!" and this is the 1st time! i've ever said this!but I really feel this way! Fuck Obama! He wants to drive my country into the ground!! Welfare,and illegal immigrants are his main agenda! FUCK THIS!!!!

[williethepimp]

(WILLIE THINKS TO HIMSELF)..............

 

 

I must remember never to discuss politics with Iceberg..........

[azza33]

(WILLIE THINKS TO HIMSELF)..............

 

 

I must remember never to discuss politics with Iceberg..........

 

hahaha was thinking the same myself...

 

Quite the rant i thought

[pacman]

Go on Willie, it would be fun...        

 

And he did say he was sorry.

[pacman]

BUT THIS MOTHERFUCKER WAS EVIL!!!!

 

I accused Chavez of being corrupt but I never thought he was evil. Now after reading more about him I have toned down my opinion to incompetent. A poor leader with a good heart is one way to describe him. I bet Willie & Route67 never expected that...       

 

Especially, the POTUS!!! This bastard! makes me hate my country,and that really sucks for sure!

 

He and his wife, really suck for America! and I can't believe he was elected for a 2nd term! America,really sucks now IMHO!

 

Oh dear...         

 

I've read some controversial posts on a number of forums but this wins.

[bumblebee]

Not sure if this documentary got international viewing outside Ireland but here is the Youtube intro, interesting viewing.

 

A 2002 documentary about the April 2002 Venezuelan coup attempt which briefly deposed Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. A television crew from Ireland's national broadcaster, RTÉ happened to be recording a documentary about Chávez during the events of April 11, 2002.

 

Shifting focus, they followed the events as they occurred. During their filming, the crew recorded images of the events that they say contradict explanations given by Chávez's opposition, the private media, the US State Department, and then White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer. The documentary says that the coup was the result of a conspiracy between various old guard and anti-Chávez factions within Venezuela and the United States.

 

 

[Tomcat]

Especially, the POTUS!!! This bastard! 

 

Whats that mean Iceman... i never heard of the POTUS ... and i thought i was a streetwise dude 

[pdogg]

POTUS is an acronym for President Of The United States.

 

Think it was first used in a Clancy novel, not sure.

[azza33]

I accused Chavez of being corrupt but I never thought he was evil. Now after reading more about him I have toned down my opinion to incompetent. A poor leader with a good heart is one way to describe him. I bet Willie & Route67 never expected that...       

 

 

Oh dear...         

 

I've read some controversial posts on a number of forums but this wins.

With reference to the last part... I hear his pain and so do you paccers.

Look at that read headed clown in charge of Australia. Socialist, probably communist, whore!!! Right now i couldnt give a fuk about this place, as i see it... If people are stupid enough to vote for such a despicable rodent they deserve all they get.

The sooner i leave this place and move to asia the better.

I despise having to pay tax to support the breeding of the muppets who keep this mob in government.

[pacman]

I despise having to pay tax to support the breeding of the muppets who keep this mob in government.

 

Even the muppets won't be voting for her next time. Well some of them will because that's all they know. What can you do?

[pacman]

Whats that mean Iceman... i never heard of the POTUS ... and i thought i was a streetwise dude 

 

You surprise me TC. The POTUS & the FLOTUS are commonly used acronyms that have been around for some time.

 

I admit the first time I saw Michelle Obama referred to as the FLOTUS I had to think about it for a second. But only a second.

[pacman]

I'm surprised at you Paccer's why do you have to assume that everyone does something for a price ?

 

Freebies ? C'mon its about trying to improve the lot of fellow human beings who have nothing .

 

He helped the poor because it was the correct thing to do and what all decent societies should do .

 

It's our most basic human instinct to act in our own self interest. I don't accuse Chavez of not wanting to do the "correct thing" but a nice benefit from all his largess was to secure the Presidency of an oil rich country. Not bad when it didn't cost a cent of his own money plus he copped all the perks that came with the office.

 

With eighty per cent of Venezuela's population impoverished, I agree that any leader had a moral imperative to help them. How morally bankrupt would the place have been if another oligarch had taken office & further enriched himself? Beyond the pale IMO.

 

And yes, all decent societies have an obligation to help the poor. Where we differ is how they are helped. Chavez' plan has not left Venezuela in good shape for the future, quite the reverse tragically.

 

And all those poor, what happens to them now that the US is on the cusp of declaring itself free from oil imports? It isn't as if Chavez invested in manufacturing & other industries that can employ them once the oil revenue dries up.

[williethepimp]

Not sure if this documentary got international viewing outside Ireland but here is the Youtube intro, interesting viewing.

 

A 2002 documentary about the April 2002 Venezuelan coup attempt which briefly deposed Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. A television crew from Ireland's national broadcaster, RTÉ happened to be recording a documentary about Chávez during the events of April 11, 2002.

 

Shifting focus, they followed the events as they occurred. During their filming, the crew recorded images of the events that they say contradict explanations given by Chávez's opposition, the private media, the US State Department, and then White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer. The documentary says that the coup was the result of a conspiracy between various old guard and anti-Chávez factions within Venezuela and the United States.

 

 

Yeah I saw that documentary on tv in the UK.Amazing stuff really,and shows the extent the opposition were prepared to go to to overthrow Chavez......meanwhile they talk about democracy and the rule of Law,yet actively work against both.

[Tomcat]

 As mentioned before  , the body count under Chavez rule was worst than post war Iraq. So much for the rule of law then

[Tomcat]

You surprise me TC. The POTUS & the FLOTUS are commonly used acronyms that have been around for some time.

 

Thanks Paccers...  Ill have to watch NCIS a bit more it seems

[Tomcat]

I thought the Homicide rate was pretty much a known and not disputed  and was published in most quality new papers .

 

The Daily Telegraph stated that the Murder rate quadrupled when he got in and was among highest in the world. Also i seem to remember that up to 2007 at least 6000 human rights investigations were made against the Police... Sounds like the Wild West to me... 

 

a lot of single women walking around is usually a pointer

[Tomcat]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/03/11/us-venezuela-crime-idUSTRE62A44A20100311

 

There , put that in your Opium pipe and smoke it. The actual break down on the figures are at the UN but are available online if you trawl ... as  i have a day job ill leave that to you... or try Wikpedia , 

[4:17]

Oi, I had no idea so many had axes to grind here. And people wonder why I never discuss politics or religion.

 

Just curious: has anyone that has commented on this thread ever been to Venezuela? By "been to" I mean spent significant time there: a month or more outside of the conference room/business class hotel?

 

Failing that, does anyone actually know citizens of the country? And I don't mean long-time expats/immigrants in your own or some other country, but people who have lived the bulk of their lives in Venezuela? And by know, I mean know well, as in enough to actually have some sort of insight into their lives?

 

And I'm not trying to make *any* implications one way or another vis-a-vis the quality of anyone's posts. As i say, just curious: no judgments implied or explicit.

[JaiDee]

Oi, I had no idea so many had axes to grind here. And people wonder why I never discuss politics or religion.

 

 Probably a good rule of thumb, 4:17; I read just 2 pages of this thread and that was plenty. Bottom line is, you can't win anyway because everyone has their own opinions on these things, and changing their minds is near impossible. In the states, it's pretty much 50-50 so when I meet someone who is a right-winger I usually don't talk about politics, it's  just not worth arguing about.

 

 As for this wannabe tinhorn dictator, who the hell outside of Venezuela even cares about him?  Nothing to see here, moving on.....

[deepthroat]

He didn't like the US Government very much from what I've heard. That makes him ok in my book.

 

Being facetious here, I really have no dog in this fight. Just couldn't let a controversial political or religious topic go past without throwing in MY 2 cents.