A "Farang" Forever to the Locals?

[bumblebee]

Back in the sticks this week visiting the in laws for the third time. There was a group gathered yesterday at the family home and every so often I'd hear the word "farang" being bandied about, obviously referring to me but not once did I hear my first name mentioned.

I found it amusing in the same way that some Thais refer to themselves in the third person. There is a feeling of detachment about it all. I wonder is it the same if the family is more middle class Bangkokonians for example.

So what has been others experiences. Will you always be the farang, the novelty who will never be fully accepted no matter how much time you spend with the locals.

As an aside my other half is coming home for a month soon and I'd be mortified if my family and friends kept referring to her as "the Thai" and not use her name.

[Luung]

I've posted about this before BB (Just wish I could recall the thread), & I tend to think that these people are in about the same place now as the England that I grew up in back in the 60's & 70's.

Believing that we still had an empire & that the rest of the world owed us something for saving them, we were incredibly jingoistic, with a deluded superiority complex, which in turn made us pretty mean spirited towards foreigners.

My dad married an immigrant & that poor, lovely, little lady remained a fukin' foreigner for the rest of her days... And ever since I've hated racism, but unfortunately that's all I see here.

And they really don't give it a second thought... These people are sophisticated enough in the way in which they communicate with each other, even down at the village level... And it's predominantly about keeping up the veneer of politeness, which in our case they don't.

They know that they're being rude & condescending, but really couldn't give a shit.

Got the same with my ex's family... And she even admitted as much.

[lance2546]

Being referred to as farang beats being called "man" มัน...

... which is Thai for "it", used to refer to animals and foreigners :)

[cobber32]

Some locals are polite; even asking a friend who knows "what is his name?" (in Thai); one guy has called me "You" over the past 5 years (but he is friendly with it) and yet several people whom I've known well over the same time, who consider themselves Hi-so, still refer to me as Farang.

So what is my take on it all?  I don't take it seriously enough to be offended, or upset, but I'm bloody sure that when we go back to Australia all my friends and family will use her name, and not call her "the Thai"

[xyzzy]

I read a post on another board by an American that had lived in Thailand for 20 years. He was well acquainted (just friends) with a middle class Thai lady. She once told him "I feel sorry for you as you can never be Thai". I pretty much agree with Lung's post on the Thai's arrogance. 

 

I've also heard that the word farang use to mean something worse than white foreigner.   

[Guest sustra]

could speaking thai in a proper way change the situation? i do not speak thai, but in my youth i used to be an interpreter with 6 languages and i noticed a difference of behaviour from local people in personal relationships if You speak the local language.

[lance2546]

I read a post on another board by an American that had lived in Thailand for 20 years. He was well acquainted (just friends) with a middle class Thai lady. She once told him "I feel sorry for you as you can never be Thai". I pretty much agree with Lung's post on the Thai's arrogance. 

 

I've also heard that the word farang use to mean something worse than white foreigner.

Yes, "farang" is some times pejorative in context. Its no wonder that locals often treat us with disdain- they insult u, treat us with open contempt and we just lap it up. Parallel Universe...

[Luung]

could speaking thai in a proper way change the situation? i do not speak thai, but in my youth i used to be an interpreter with 6 languages and i noticed a difference of behaviour from local people in personal relationships if You speak the local language.

I wish it could, Sustra... I actually speak Thai at a lower conversational level, but this lot just don't really seem to care.... You're a bit of a non person to anyone other than the person you're actually having the relationship with.... Has I said, pretty much the same as the England in which I grew up in.

 

It's a shame, but that's the way it is.

 

Wow, six languages!!!.... Remind me never to play you at a brainy game 55555

[Luung]

Yes, "farang" is some times pejorative in context. Its no wonder that locals often treat us with disdain- they insult u, treat us with open contempt and we just lap it up. Parallel Universe...

I think that there lies a large part of it... A lot of the time we happen to empower them, just by rolling over.

[Luung]

I read a post on another board by an American that had lived in Thailand for 20 years. He was well acquainted (just friends) with a middle class Thai lady. She once told him "I feel sorry for you as you can never be Thai". I pretty much agree with Lung's post on the Thai's arrogance. 

 

I've also heard that the word farang use to mean something worse than white foreigner.   

Yes, Thai arrogance indeed... They often remind of many Israelis that I meet... God's chosen people... (Only these ones do actually live in the land of milk & honey)!!! 

 

Initially Farang derived from Ferengi, which was the Persian term for white people (not the Star Trek type)... And probably worked it's way down to Farang as our skin resembles the succulent white fruit.

 

But in this day & age... It can mean a whole lot more & usually a lot worse, a bit like calling someone a nigger, wog or a pakkie to their face & not caring what they think or feel

[pacman]

I've also heard that the word farang use to mean something worse than white foreigner.   

 

You may have read one of my old posts about the word "farang". It is the worst perjorative imaginable, equivalent to the N word. Some time back the Thais were asked what farang meant as they already had a word for foreigner. They came up with the answer that it meant "foreigner other than from SE Asia". And all their text books were changed to reflect that official translation. However they couldn't exactly start a campaign to re-educate the public lest they gave the game away.

 

As a generalisation, when you see locals sneering as they refer to the farang, it isn't that they dislike one particular farang, they hate the lot of us. This applies especially to the uneducated low-so Thais but it's an attitude that can be found everywhere.

 

EDIT: Oops, sorry Lung, I missed your post when I was replying. At least I am not contradicting you.

[Luung]

Now there you  go... Paxo's just mentioned the 'N' word & he hadn't even seen my post.

 

Sort of says it all really.

 

 

NB. And no, they don't like us (or anyone else who isn't them, for that matter)... Especially with the feeling's of growth & empowerment that they've had for the past handful of years, this attitude towards us is only ever going to get worse.

 

Believe me, if this lot felt that they could turn the tables on us, then they would... Most just don't quite know or understand how incredibly competitive this lot are... And how desperate they are to be No 1

 

 

Man, you'd be torn to shreds for posting this on LBP

 

[rxpharm]

Well, in China the word for a western foreigner is "white devil or demon". Many cultures are quite ethnocentric, and while I wouldn't rank Thais as the worst, they are above average.

[KenW]

I know nothing about Thailand or Thai culture. Cop that.

 

But I do know about other Asian cultures, Vietnam especially but also Indonesia, Japan, & the generalised Asia-Pacific. So I will make some comments, albeit that they may be misplaced due to my Thai ignorance. However, hopefully some of them may be relevant.

 

bb, it's years since we met up, drank together etc., so I cannot recall anything about your Thai language competence. [Please don't be offended if here I presume language ability not had, or language ability had, but forgotten by me.] Several things occur to me, most of them contrary to most of the posts above, posts which seem to me to be heavily anti-Thai and perhaps a bit lacking in cultural sensitivity and understanding.

 

Opening, let me say this: you hear the word farang & suppose it about you. Here in VN they use a similar word "tay" - literally west, but used nowadays to allude to all white foreigners. People one does not know - meet in the street - will use this word about you all the time. One hears them refer to "ong tay" - old man foreigner, if you are, for example, buying a bowl of soup in a local eatery. But in 10 years of living here + ten more of visiting prior to residence, I have never yet heard anyone close to me call or refer to me as tay [= farang].

 

I got married back in the day - and as my mates here on LBR know, long separated. However, as bb is about to discover if he hasn't already, one enters kinship knowing/or not knowing, you will never escape. It is a web, as solid as any spider's, that holds you as surely as that glossy one holds its flies & moths. Kinship is the Asian web of relationships that consumes you. So today, while I live alone & act alone, I obey & honour the kin network I once entered into. They won't let me do otherwise. They knock on my door at significant times, to ensure it is so. That is, I still dutifully attend family funerals, death anniversaries, and other major cultural rituals, for to not do so is to be the scum of the Earth, the lowest rudest less than human life form. I do it happily, for they all involve copious amounts of piss & good times.

 

At each & every one of such occasions I am called by terms from the kinship network. Those superior to me (ex's oldies, uncles aunts etc., older siblings, call me by my given name - let's say Ken.) Children, nephews nieces etc., call me by appropriate kinship terms: uncle, grandfather, etc. All this is in keeping with what they would do in any normal VNese situation. In other words, I am embedded as if I were a local, never any offence, never anything different from local custom.

 

Second, they use the word tay readily to talk about the concept, given that I, obviously, stimulate their thoughts in that direction. Example: I get a pissed & happy, begin to sing & carry on. I hear them saying (example): Westerners (tay) do this sort of thing, and such odd songs they know. Laughter follows, but it is laughter of pleasure. They encourage me to sing more. They love a happy time, and want me to be happy.

 

It may be the same for you in the sticks bb. You may hear farang, but it may simply be their generalised talk about foreigners, stimulated by your presence. Enjoying you.

 

Now, delicately, he asks: do you know Thai kinship terms bb? Can you hear them referring to you as older brother, in law, son, nephew, etc.? If not, then to home in on the one word farang is perhaps a bit lacking. I'd be surprised, given that you've married this girl, that her family would just dismiss you as a foreigner. Never forget this: you are now family and will never - be prepared for this - never escape. Asians are better than the above posts assume: they don't treat family - even a foreign member - as anything other than family. They will not be using farang to demean you - I will bet huge sums on that.

 

As above, I don't know Thailand or Thai culture. But I know what Asians do and how they behave culturally. Relax about farang. Get your girl to teach you kinship terms, then you'll begin to hear, through the prior fog of non-understanding, the right words being used to pay you respect. You''ll be surprised about how they enjoy you for wanting to be part of them and their family situation.

 

And while LBs or bar owners may dismiss you as farang - which is all most punters ever get to be familiar with, you who have now leapt into the deep end, can learn to swim in the confidence that your new family never will.

[SiamSam]

Once again Mr. Ken, extremely well put.  

 

From one "ong tay" to another 

[bumblebee]

Thanks for the insight Ken very informative as usual. As I said at the outset I found it amusing rather than demeaning. Perhaps my presence got them talking about farangs in general but ever time I heard it their heads moved slightly in my direction. They know my name but as herself has informed me they find it difficult to pronounce apparently and that's why they call me farang in this particular situation.

Perhaps there is kinship involved as you say but there also tends to be an arrogance here that I did not witness in my time in Cambodia that has been touched on by other posters.

[seven]

How about thais calling black people chocolate-man. Ive heard it numerous times. Try to get away with that in politically correct west.

Ignorance or racism?

[Jimslim]

Belief that ones own country or culture is superior to others is nothing new and is pretty much alive and well the world over .

 

If you are force fed extreme nationalism from an early age and don't have the opportunity to travel and experience other cultures then you will be more susceptible to it , you believe the world revolves around your own little place because that is what you are told day and daily .

 

I don't believe any one race or culture is any more racist than another just a lack of education and opportunity will mean people will express themselves in more basic terms .

[ThaiMe]

Guitar from Famous Bar once told me "You fuck me good Chocolate Man".  If she was racists I don't think she would have been with me in the first place.  I have heard Chocolate Man a few times while in Thailand, not a problem for me but it might be for someone else. 

 

A few years ago I was talking to Nok the owner of La Bamba and Farang came up during the conversation.  To prove my lack of knowledge of the Thai culture, I told her I was not Farang because I am not white; "My skin same same you".  She had a good laugh and then told me anyone not Thai is Farang.    

[xyzzy]

, for to not do so is to be the scum of the Earth, the lowest rudest less than human life form.

 

Sorry for the negativity but in Thailand I think that is where you start out and mostly stay even though you are tolerated. Family is first and you are probably 4th behind Buddha and you know who. The last two not necessarily in that order. But if you are the family ATM you likely get better attention. I sometimes wonder what the attitude of the people would be like in Thailand if they went through what Vietnam and Cambodia had to endure years ago.

 

I made the rounds with a black friend in Pattaya back when I had a long pony tail. They called him chocolate man and me long hair. Just something to personalize their attention toward you as they try and attract your attention IMO.