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I think different types of criteria, even for the different types of relationships within the realms of P4P... But at the end of the day, whatever way you want to look at it, you're walking into a one sided contract, unless you want to fuck around as well, in which case it'll be falling apart, sooner rather than later. If you want a real relationship, which is incredibly rare with a Thai partner, even outside our little world, then you've got to take her out of P4P & either live with her here, or in your own country... PERIOD! If you don't, you're going to be lied to, you'll be respected less & less as time goes on & you'll be used a door mat... PERIOD! At any rate, firstly, you've got to define what a 'relationship' is & then make sure that you & your ladyboy friend are both on the same page with this???? And then could she 'honestly' get her head around concepts like, give & take, working together, sharing goals, building for a future, being a real partnership, supporting one another, fidelity, loyalty etc, ect, etc... You see, the problem there is that they'll nod in agreement with you while paying no more than bare, minimal, lip service to these concepts, which are mostly not even within their remit... This is Asia, & the man/husband isn't required to do much more than bring home the bacon... After all, our ideals of marriage & romantic relationship are a bit 'Mills & Boon' for this bunch, same as they would have been for 90% of westerners before Edwardian times. And funnily enough, I had a situation a little while ago where an LB (who you actually know) was really pushing hard to be my girlfriend, but she wasn't willing to fully take herself off the P4P market, because I wasn't 'yet' offering to become a sponsor (& I wouldn't have, for a multitude of reasons), her not wanting to 'yet' give up P4P & her Facebook fan club being amongst them! Now, she likes to maintain as high a public profile as she can & whatever she does somehow becomes very public, whether by her orcestration or not... And man, that would have been way too much for me to deal with, but she just didn't get it, THEY DON'T!.. So I was happy to walk away & retain my dignity before the inevitable liaisons with others happened. So for the duration of our 'friendship' I was very happy to stay in the background, because if they have been in P4P for any amount of time then they will have probably lost virtually all sense of shame or embarrassment & most importantly what that means for 'US'! So personally, I feel your self respect is where it should be Swedeman... And as for the others who are so insecure that they need to declare 'boyfriend' status for an active P4P whore... I'm not going to be mean enough to say what I think. I'll have a real relationship, mind, body & soul, or stay on my own, thanks!

Found this photo in some very old photos, probably taken in 1999 or 2000 with a regular 35mm camera developed on paper so sorry for the poor quality. This is Soi Tanaya, "Japanese street" over by Patpong. Most likely not any Ladyboys, just very selective Ladies who will only go with Japanese men. Probably hasn't changed all that much since that time.

How does a BM remain in a relationship with a LB who is still in P4P? If I had someone that I truly cared about, and announced it on all forums and for everyone to know, the least I would do is take her off the market. It would be embarrassing to me if some monger was barfining someone who I considered to be my GF. My self respect is a bitter higher than that I guess, and again I would just simply not allow it. Plain and simple I don't share the one I love with anyone, period. However, I guess for some that may not be a big deal? -Swedeman007

Cunts who follow fashion!!!.. Especially old cunts who go to Pattaya for their holidays FFS! Start trends, don't fukin' follow them... Or abstain. Gripe No 28566986458668- Cunts who think they've got taste, but haven't!! Fashion is a style dictated to you by some 'Euro poof' with a 2B pencil stuffed up his arse... If you're silly enough to follow it, then your more of a prick than even he is! Fukin' stab them in the face... I'd like to pull every last remaining piece of flesh off their faces & then make them eat it, before I pull their ears around the back of their silly 'haute coiffured' fukin' heads & then tie a fukin' knot with them... That's before I march them down the road by the scruff of there silly fukin' tattoooed necks & make them buy a gingham blouse. AGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! CUNTS, CUNTS, CUNTS, FUKIN' CUNTS, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! No taste is good taste, otherwise have some fukin' style. CUNTS!

That particular relationship ended last year when Titian decided that Om was not for him - but she had been out of the P4P scene for at least two years in order to have a monogamous relationship with him. The sad thing was you could see the relationship unravelling over a prolonged period as differences in culture, aspirations and personalities came to the for, yet neither of them seemed to recognise it or were prepared to acknowledge and then tackle the difficulties. Maybe they did in private, but publicly they maintained a front of luvvy dubbyness until it went tits up. For those interested in such things, Om is a sweet girl who would make a great GF, albeit with quite high maintenance needs.

Fuck BB, someting's just oozed out of the side of my shorts! I think this could run for as long as the 'soul' thread did... Good mornng gents. The middle one looks photoshoped, but I've had my beagle eye go all over it for a close inspection & it looks real enough to me.

The scion of one of the most powerful families in Chicago, if not the USA, and a decorated military officer, announced she is transgender. Amazing...the world is changing very very fast. Also, she is pumping real money into think tanks to address the issues of equality for the TG community at UCLA. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/23/jennifer-natalya-pritzker_n_3806126.html?utm_hp_ref=Chicago Cheers, Randi

Probably mentioned before but deserves another mention - ladyboys who have more body hair than me. If I wanted to fuck someone hairy, I would clone myself.

I sort of look at it as the same as people who buy timeshare condos...you can claim the condo for yourself for the two weeks you are in Hawaii, and you know whenever you go back to Hawaii, you will get the same unit, with its concomitant characteristics. I remember my granddad and grandmother used to the go to the same hotel every year and the same suite to celebrate their nuptials. Why? They had good memories of the experience and wanted to make more, however, they could not guarantee the room wouldn't be booked when they wanted to go. However, a timeshare solves this problem. I think a working ladyboy gf is simply a timeshare relationship, I get my two weeks guaranteed. What I have discovered is timeshares are usually more expensive than simply renting the condo next door for the week. However, I can't always guarantee I will get the condo. So, It appears to me if a guy claims a LB working girl as his gf, he is simply saying that when I'm in town, we spend time together and she has agreed to spend her time with me. And he is agreeing to pay for that luxury and guarantee. Anyway, i'm very loosey goosey on my terminology...so any girl I'm not paying for is my girlfriend, if only for a one night stand...lol. I date many gg's in the US. I call them all my "girlfriends", and introduce them as such to my friends, but we are not monogamous, and until I call one a "wife" again, I don't ever plan on having any thing close to an expectation of monogamy. So, when come back to Pattaya, and a girl I meet at a bar decides to hang out with me and travel with me for a few weeks, she will be my girlfriend for my vacation.... And I would feel no shame or loss of face if I elected to do a timeshare with a working girl, and called her my girlfriend. It would simply explain to my mates on this forum why I show up all the time with the same girl.... she is the one who rocks my world in the pay 4 play world, and I would like to guarantee access, and calling her my "girlfriend" in Thailand and is generally much nicer than saying "my favorite whore who I pay1/4 the price of a whore I hire in the US, but who gives me 4 times the service." My two cents... Randi

-Swedeman007

I'm sorry, my mother was a lady tailoress & I'm half Italian... It's in the 'jeans'... Get it??? Fuck me, I'm throwing em' away.

I think you've just answered your own question, Swedeman. NB. The first one's sad... The second one's even sadder

Guys who wear RL Polo shirts (authenitic or Thai knock- off) with the colar up

Check out the short video, Paccers; that one is about tanks and hummers and is equally as depressing. Warning, it was produced by FOX 'news'; but I still believe it. Meanwhile, "truth is coming and can not be stopped" popped up in Manchester, UK this week;

All good questions Swedeman, and I'll be damned if I know the answers; I've only really had one LB ''girlfriend'' and she was in college at the time. She hooked later but we were long done by then. One example of what you are referring to is Cindy from Cascades; many guys here would know her, likely some even know her in the biblical sense. She had a long-term relationship with a western guy and kept working, and he knew full-well what she was doing, never even tried to deny it. His attitude was, 'I'd like to see her stop working but I can't afford to cover the amount she makes every month" so she kept working. PD refers to guys like that above. Last I heard they gave their relationship the ol' college try but it just didn't work out. A bit off-topic, but think of all the guys who call a working girl "my girlfriend", and eventually works his way up to sending her 40 or 50K to get out of the bars, but she keeps working anyway, effectively doubling her monthly haul. He can call her "my girlfriend" and that may make him feel better, but all the while she is still working while he is away; quite common I believe.

Noon, front and center.

It isn't so much being in a relationship with a LB and either party is fooling around on the side. That is a whole different topic that I am sure can be debated whether it be P4P or not. It is more of calling a certain ladyboy your GF because when the so called BF is in town she spends all her time with him. It could be that he spends months at time with this LB when he is in town. And when he leaves and goes back home, then she is back selling her wares in Patts. The BF isn't willing to sponsor her, and knows full and well that she is back working at the bar. In this case, can you really claim her as your girlfriend? The only thing that separates a monger from the BF is a few baht, so I guess the monger can call her his GF as well if they spend a descent amount of time together? What I am trying to understand is the thought behind why someone would claim a "currently working LB" as "their girl". Is it due to a lack of personal self worth, basically low self esteem, that you call her your girlfriend even though you know she is still in the business? In a case like that I personally wouldn't label her as mine,but more of a go-to girl when I am in town. Or does being with her provide you with some type of status that you personally feel is admired by your "forum mates"? -Swedeman007

That picture is all the more unbelievable when one considers the level of US debt & the fact that nearly 50 million Americans receive food stamps. I wonder how future generations are going to judge the military complex & the leaders who were persuaded to build more weapons of war rather than look after the welfare of their own people. I haven't seen that picture before but I can't believe how much it has affected me. It's the embodiment of complete madness.

Hey, we can't get too down about the US or its military; we have all these planes just sitting there waiting to be used again! Only problem is, by the next time we fight a major war - which, lets face it, won't be far away - all these planes [[200 Billion worth] will be basically worthless because the guys at Grumman and Boeing and Raytheon, et al, will be forcing [read; bribing] the elected officials from their districts to keep pumping MORE cash into the military machine. So yeah; basically all these planes, as well as all the tanks and other equipment in the short video below are essentially worthless. "We could fly back one plane load of equipment every hour for the next ten years and we would STILL not have all our stuff back from the war zones." Awesome. http://video.foxnews.com/v/2608902890001/military-surplus-sale-unloading-unused-war-equipment/

lots of talk about noon on forum , have never been in guess bar , any pictures of her .

tina's suite pretty good , rooms from 700 baht with balcony , overlooking action street .

Valid points, RX; many guys want to have their cake and eat it too. Case in point, and this happens often; a guy who wants his LB girlfriend to be faithful to only him, then when he comes back for his one or 2 months a year he is off to Pattaya either before or after the visit with his GF for some 'butterfly' time. How many times have we seen "I can't wait to spend my time with Nong; but first I will head down to Pattaya and clean my tubes out." If he can do it, she can do it when he's not around.

Many of those who proclaim they want a bf/gf relationship with an lb will often fool around on the side. Is that any different than what a Thai lb will do? There is likely a small minority of guys who would be strictly monogamous with an lb gf, which is probably around the same percentage of lbs who would be monogamous with a single guy. If an lb is in the p4p scene, as we all have heard the stories and seen the evidence, the % of not working is low. I think that an lb gf who was not in or from the p4p scene would be a different story. My question is what about you? Can you avoid the temptations? I think very few of us can - so why bash the lbs so much when the guys probably cheat just as much and likely lie about it as often too?

Yes, this past week has been eerily quiet in Sin City, and that goes for all the bars. Hopefully the next few nights will see things pick up a bit. It's my last night, so going to have a few in Sensations, then mope the night away at HQ, until Miss Sindy puts me to bed.

I don't like him because he's rude and obnoxious I never really liked his music either , hearing Brown Eyed Girl at every wedding disco you've ever been to gets a little much after a while . Here's a nice little mural for all you fans painted recently in Belfast city center

I remember a few years ago now being at a party in Pattaya with a ladyboy I'd known a long long time , she's holding my hand and whispering sweet nothings in my ear whilst I look around the room and realize the majority of the guys there have been with her in the biblical sense at some stage too . Mills and Boon moments don't happen in Pattaya .

I know he got a bit of flack but Titian seemed a decent fellow and I met him and Om several times when they were together and I was with my LBGF of 4 years at the time. Early evening 2 days ago I saw Om along Soi6 as I was walking up from Beach Road to Horny Bar, where little May was kind enough to show me the ST room innards for an off-season take-it-or-leave-it price. T'was good too. I would reckon most of us who've been on the scene a while have given it a go once or twice during our Thailand years, but time reveals the uglier underbelly of Thai thinking and it inevitably leads to failure. Hopefully without too much financial loss. So long as you only spend what you can afford there's no reason why a long-term relationship can't be enjoyed, but your expectations of monogamy should be realistic. Often one doesn't see it at the time. I kept mine private from the forums so when the inevitable happened there was no loss of face for either party. I have a bit of a dead heart towards Thais these days so I doubt I'd get involved again, experience tells us (me) that however good it might appear it will 99.99% of the time lead to disappointment as their values and opinions on relationships are so different. Those 'private investigators' who will check-up on your girl when you are back home make money for old rope. If anyone has doubts about their own relationship then it is already doomed to failure IMO.

"And as for the others who are so insecure that they need to declare 'boyfriend' status for an active P4P whore... I'm not going to be mean enough to say what I think." I follow Lungs line of though here too. A bit like wearing a beer brand vest.... waste of money and makes u look like a C#$T There was a famous P4P relationship a few years ago Titan and Om. I see Om is on Thaifriendly advertising a lot so does anyone know or have a link to the final stages of there story. ?? Or are they happy every after and he's still accepting here lifestyle choice ??

Van the Man? In his time one of the greatest artists in pants! But he seems like a real piece of work, years ago I read an interview with one of the members of his band who was fired for mentioning Van during another interview, he didn't say anything negative about him, just mentioned his name & Van never called him for another gig. There is no question in my mind that one of the greatest recordings ever is VM's "Astral Weeks", a stunning masterpiece. Quite a number of years ago I was lucky enough to work with one of the musicians on it, the well known jazz bassist Richard Davis & I couldn't resist asking him about that record, even more rewarding to me since his acoustic bass is really the standout or lead instrument on it. He mentioned that for it being one of the hundreds of gigs he has done it was the one that he is constantly asked about & at the time he hardly thought anything of it. He said he was hired along with 2 other well known jazz musicians for a session with some guy they never heard of ( I think this would be around '67). They arrived in the studio, set up, Van came in & hardly said a word to them, went into his little acoustic cubicle & said the key & just started playing, not a word otherwise. They went throught several tunes in 1-2 takes improvising on the spot following his changes & then he left with hardly a word & that was it! They thought it was strange but the checks didn't bounce so they forgot about it. Van, Miles, Dylan, Glenn Gould, etc.... they just come from different planets than the rest of us & are pissed that they have to stay here with us I think.

Here is a copy & paste of a newsletter that is crossdresser oriented here in NYC, there may be something worthwhile here if one is in the mood: I'm posting because I get asked all the time what venues, clubs, or events in NYC are TG-specific, TG-safe, or TG-friendly. Paradoxically, in as big a city as New York there are less "dedicated" places for someone trans to socialize. That's because many venues and parties now avoid "niche" events that might attract less guests. Venues would rather gather a huge crowd with cheap drink specials and no special or unique theme nights with interesting guestlists. Also, places change at the drop of a hat. Bars open and close overnight, venues change management and ownership all the time. My advice is to take these listings with a grain of salt, not as gospel, and don't be offended if your favorite bar or night out isn't included! Final caveat - I'm genderqueer, and I most align with the M2F experience. So while these selected parties and venues are filtered through that experience I know that most events listed here are friendly and inclusive of not only TG, but cis- and any "flavor" of gender identity! The TG PARTIES YOU SHOULD ALREADY KNOW ABOUT: • My Friends of Triangles parties each month are an hour's drive north of NYC, and if you are reading this then you may already know about them. If not, read the Official FAQ here = <a>http://j.mp/UWYNJP</a> • AMANDA'S HIDE-A-WAY AT THE PL LOUNGE - Amanda Lay hosts a fun party every Saturday in HACKENSACK, NJ not far from Teterboro Airport. You can also change into/out of drag at the club, which is convenient. More info at their Facebook page = <a>https://www.facebook.com/groups/140435772668909/</a> • CLUB CHERIE NYC hosted by Sweetie - Sweetie was the hostess/organizer of the Eden Underground events in Brooklyn - and she's found a brand new venue in midtown Manhattan next door to Lucky Cheng's to host weekly TG events every Thursday and Friday night! The party is open to everyone and is a safe and drama-free venue to socialize. For more information check out their Opening Night event announcement here = https://www.facebook.com/events/465168650234229/ .......(EDIT) TG PARTIES (with a caveat!): There are several parties during the week on Sunday, Monday, Wednesdays, and Saturday nights that are TG - BE AWARE however, that these nights are often more expensive, with higher cover charges and go-go dancing or lap dances. So it's TG-specific at these parties, but the crowd and clientele is less mixed, and the nights overall can vary in attendance and are pricier. I've been a few times because I know some of the promoters and the bartenders, but I don't go as regularly as other places. If you do attend these following events, be hypervigilant of your surroundings! • MUG LOUNGE NYC - this is a newer TG night that is held every Monday and Wednesday in the East Village (the bar is on East 13th Street near Avenue A). Sandy's Facebook page (the hostess) is here. She posts her events weekly on her FB page = <a>https://www.facebook.com/sandymichellenychk</a> • TRANNY STRIP NYC - This is another mostly "professional" TG party, with high covers, TS strippers and lap dancers, and a mostly "working" crowd. Parties are Friday and Sunday nights. More info is = <a>http://www.trannystrip.com/</a>

Leave him alone 4:17, he got me pissed once in Stingfellows nightclub (London) , becasuse I went up to hime & told him that I was skint & then kindly asked him to buy me a beer!!!... About three weeks later when I offered to buy him a drink back he got me pissed again.... He's not just a 'Hawk'God' .. He's a fukin' nice bloke too! Loved him since I was 11 yrs old & 'Silver Machine' changed my life... I'm sure he's one of us too! Im English & I can't stand the cunt!

Nope, never been a fan of Van "The Manilow" Morrison. If you were talking about Peter Gabriel I'd be right there with you though.

Happy Friday. Nadia is the chosen one today. Enjoy your weekend.

as is spend some days in bkk...a pictured update....

philippines...big gun paradise... another monster cock always from philippines....