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The culture war crusade on trans issues and politics in the US


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You can make an equally strong case or stronger that it's the far left's culture war.

Refusing to acquiesce to every nutty demand made by the trans lobby does not make one far right or transphobic - a term that's rapidly losing all meaning.

Most reasonable people believe in the right of trans people to live their lives as they choose and to be left alone. But not at the cost of all basic common sense and the right of women (real women) to their own identity and rights and spaces. 

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Americans....and people around the world believe that America is a democracy.

Yet it's not possible to have a democracy when there are only 2 choices.

2 choices.... 2 competitors.... 2 groups servicing one market definitively means 1 choice.... 0 competitors.....1 group servicing the market.

That's why market economy nations have anti trust laws.............. because what I wrote above is a truism, not an opinion.

 

issues like "trans rights" are not meant to debate..... they are meant to polarize. To give the appearance of political discourse. They are enflamed to polarize sides so they become so extreme there is the illusion of competition.

Meanwhile issues like education, poverty, war, economics, government graft, budget deficit never rise to the level of this passionate discourse because the polarized sides are emotionally blinded by minor issues like "trans rights"......minor when compared to the issues that directly affect everyone like the ones I listed above.

For those major issues..... the same trajectory continues no matter which party is in office. Education becomes increasingly for the elite..... poverty increases....debt increase.... wars continue.

 

 

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1 hour ago, The-Sith said:

Americans....and people around the world believe that America is a democracy.

Yet it's not possible to have a democracy when there are only 2 choices.

2 choices.... 2 competitors.... 2 groups servicing one market definitively means 1 choice.... 0 competitors.....1 group servicing the market.

That's why market economy nations have anti trust laws.............. because what I wrote above is a truism, not an opinion.

 

issues like "trans rights" are not meant to debate..... they are meant to polarize. To give the appearance of political discourse. They are enflamed to polarize sides so they become so extreme there is the illusion of competition.

Meanwhile issues like education, poverty, war, economics, government graft, budget deficit never rise to the level of this passionate discourse because the polarized sides are emotionally blinded by minor issues like "trans rights"......minor when compared to the issues that directly affect everyone like the ones I listed above.

For those major issues..... the same trajectory continues no matter which party is in office. Education becomes increasingly for the elite..... poverty increases....debt increase.... wars continue.

 

 

I agree. Of all the issues Americans should be discussing trans is about the bottom one. It is a polarising issue in which both sides take extreme dogmatic positions designed to inflame the other. Straw man arguments are thrown into the battle all the time (both sides) ...

Perhaps I shouldn't comment, it's not my country, but to the rest of the world America appears mad. The Democrats - the party of pregnant men. The Republicans - gun nuts and cult followers of Trump. They're both mad though I see the Rep's as more dangerously mad. It's become tribal and unspeakably ugly. In no other Western country / democracy do politicians routinely say they want their opponents thrown into jail, but in America you do.

On a ladyboy forum none of us can be anything but pro-trans. (Really strange if we weren't). But it doesn't mean that we have to buy into everything the activist cohort sells us. Are trans women "real" women? I don't personally think so, but I don't think they're men either - their whole thinking, intuitive sense of themselves, and of course commitment to living as women is female and total. I wish to hell people would just embrace the term trans woman. I think it's accurate, respectful of how they see themselves, and it's a happy compromise - neither wholly female but not male either. The fanatics at either extreme end don't like it however. 

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9 hours ago, Jimmy Cargopants said:

You can make an equally strong case or stronger that it's the far left's culture war.

Refusing to acquiesce to every nutty demand made by the trans lobby does not make one far right or transphobic - a term that's rapidly losing all meaning.

Most reasonable people believe in the right of trans people to live their lives as they choose and to be left alone. But not at the cost of all basic common sense and the right of women (real women) to their own identity and rights and spaces. 

Spot on.

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7 hours ago, The-Sith said:

Americans....and people around the world believe that America is a democracy.

Yet it's not possible to have a democracy when there are only 2 choices.

2 choices.... 2 competitors.... 2 groups servicing one market definitively means 1 choice.... 0 competitors.....1 group servicing the market.

That's why market economy nations have anti trust laws.............. because what I wrote above is a truism, not an opinion.

 

issues like "trans rights" are not meant to debate..... they are meant to polarize. To give the appearance of political discourse. They are enflamed to polarize sides so they become so extreme there is the illusion of competition.

Meanwhile issues like education, poverty, war, economics, government graft, budget deficit never rise to the level of this passionate discourse because the polarized sides are emotionally blinded by minor issues like "trans rights"......minor when compared to the issues that directly affect everyone like the ones I listed above.

For those major issues..... the same trajectory continues no matter which party is in office. Education becomes increasingly for the elite..... poverty increases....debt increase.... wars continue.

 

 

Spot On Sith.  It's all a farce.  They are ALL liars, The Trans, The Dems, The Rep.  The whole system has been exposed unlike no other time in history.  I think things are coming to a head, stand by.

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7 hours ago, Jimmy Cargopants said:

I agree. Of all the issues Americans should be discussing trans is about the bottom one. It is a polarising issue in which both sides take extreme dogmatic positions designed to inflame the other. Straw man arguments are thrown into the battle all the time (both sides) ...

Perhaps I shouldn't comment, it's not my country, but to the rest of the world America appears mad. The Democrats - the party of pregnant men. The Republicans - gun nuts and cult followers of Trump. They're both mad though I see the Rep's as more dangerously mad. It's become tribal and unspeakably ugly. In no other Western country / democracy do politicians routinely say they want their opponents thrown into jail, but in America you do.

On a ladyboy forum none of us can be anything but pro-trans. (Really strange if we weren't). But it doesn't mean that we have to buy into everything the activist cohort sells us. Are trans women "real" women? I don't personally think so, but I don't think they're men either - their whole thinking, intuitive sense of themselves, and of course commitment to living as women is female and total. I wish to hell people would just embrace the term trans woman. I think it's accurate, respectful of how they see themselves, and it's a happy compromise - neither wholly female but not male either. The fanatics at either extreme end don't like it however. 

You make some good points JC.  As for trans, do they need special rights that aren't applicable to others (just for them)?   What's going on in America has never been more dangerous, since the civil war.  Nothing on the surface is real.  What's going on under the surface is to most very misunderstood or unaware.  But, that's beginning to change.  Freedom and rule of law is what's at stake.  Under biden we are seeing there agenda very clearly.  You say Trump is a cult.  If freedom, rule of law and the constitution is now a cult, then by your definition, it is.  Every tax, every rule, every regulation chips away freedom.   The constitution is the most brilliant document ever written.  How could such primitive people (compared to today's standards), get it so right.  If you want to control the populist, what do you do.  You take away their freedom.  If America fails, what do you have let, communism.

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2 hours ago, Zeppie said:

You make some good points JC.  As for trans, do they need special rights that aren't applicable to others (just for them)?   What's going on in America has never been more dangerous, since the civil war.  Nothing on the surface is real.  What's going on under the surface is to most very misunderstood or unaware.  But, that's beginning to change.  Freedom and rule of law is what's at stake.  Under biden we are seeing there agenda very clearly.  You say Trump is a cult.  If freedom, rule of law and the constitution is now a cult, then by your definition, it is.  Every tax, every rule, every regulation chips away freedom.   The constitution is the most brilliant document ever written.  How could such primitive people (compared to today's standards), get it so right.  If you want to control the populist, what do you do.  You take away their freedom.  If America fails, what do you have let, communism.

100%

 

the constitution is the most brilliant document ever written.

 

they got it so right because the writers were educated and escaped tyranny in UK and Europe.

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If I got it well, the article suggests that Republicans may face negative consequences by focusing heavily on transgender issues, as this may not align with the priorities of their base. While identity politics may energize the conservative wing of the party, it could also alienate moderate and independent voters who prioritize economic and social concerns. To broaden their appeal, Republican leaders and activists may need to reassess their messaging and priorities.

I think that the Republican party risks repeating the mistakes of European populists who have failed to build a broader coalition by focusing narrowly on identity issues. Populist parties in Europe that have emphasized anti-immigration and anti-Islam rhetoric have often struggled to expand beyond their core conservative base. Republicans should take note of these experiences and look to address a wider range of concerns to appeal to a larger audience.

To build broad-based support, political leaders should seek common ground and compromise, and address concerns related to the economy, social welfare, and national security.A focus on isolationist policies like "America First" may ultimately undermine the interests of the Western alliance in the face of global threats from Russia and China.

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15 hours ago, The-Sith said:

100%

 

the constitution is the most brilliant document ever written.

 

they got it so right because the writers were educated and escaped tyranny in UK and Europe.

The US Constitution was highly inspired by John Locke whose influence is also found in the British constitution (and that of several British colonies).  There is nothing unique or special that sets the US apart from the prevalent liberal/radical ideas of the time.  In fact some of the "educated writers" of the US constitution were quite conservative for their time and wanted to replace the monarchy with US elites. The 'unruly masses,' were not to be trusted.

Regards

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18 hours ago, Zeppie said:

  If America fails, what do you have let, communism.

Not at all. You are assuming the US system of democracy is the way, the truth and the light. It is not.

There many forms of democracy. Surprisingly, not all formed by the amount of money given by supporters.

I giggle when I hear the dreaded word Socialism mentioned in the conversation in the US. Notice i did not say America. That is North and South America, made up be a lot of countries.

Socialism as used in the US terminology seems to be another form of Communism. I think it is far from it. Maybe we in the west could all learn a thing or two from say the Scandinavian countries etc., where the countries wealth is spread around, at least far more equatably than in other countries.

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5 hours ago, Soju said:

The US Constitution was highly inspired by John Locke whose influence is also found in the British constitution (and that of several British colonies).  There is nothing unique or special that sets the US apart from the prevalent liberal/radical ideas of the time.  In fact some of the "educated writers" of the US constitution were quite conservative for their time and wanted to replace the monarchy with US elites. The 'unruly masses,' were not to be trusted.

Regards

But, they didn't get there way........and that's what matters

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5 hours ago, Woodie said:

I giggle when I hear the dreaded word Socialism mentioned in the conversation in the US.

You can’t expect merrkans to understand this. Heck, half of the population voted for the orange manchild.

To quote him: ‘I love the poorly educated’.

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3 hours ago, Zeppie said:

But, they didn't get there way........and that's what matters

I assume you mean democracy prevailed despite kingship.  Yes, history would generally support that. My post above dealt with the US constitution and the influence of Locke who was writing similar "enlightened" ideals 70-80 years prior to the US Founding Fathers.

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On 4/6/2023 at 7:18 AM, Pulci Gorgon said:

If I got it well, the article suggests that Republicans may face negative consequences by focusing heavily on transgender issues, as this may not align with the priorities of their base. While identity politics may energize the conservative wing of the party, it could also alienate moderate and independent voters who prioritize economic and social concerns. To broaden their appeal, Republican leaders and activists may need to reassess their messaging and priorities.

I think that the Republican party risks repeating the mistakes of European populists who have failed to build a broader coalition by focusing narrowly on identity issues. Populist parties in Europe that have emphasized anti-immigration and anti-Islam rhetoric have often struggled to expand beyond their core conservative base. Republicans should take note of these experiences and look to address a wider range of concerns to appeal to a larger audience.

To build broad-based support, political leaders should seek common ground and compromise, and address concerns related to the economy, social welfare, and national security.A focus on isolationist policies like "America First" may ultimately undermine the interests of the Western alliance in the face of global threats from Russia and China.

I think you are absolutely right. Single issue parties don't last long (UKIP practically disappeared after Brexit) and populist leaders come to grief when they need to address the difficult detail of issues which got them elected. 

Identity politics are awful. They neglect the majority in pursuit of narrow sectional interests. It's both sides of US politics. It arguably started with Obama but Trump ramped it up to 11. Biden continues it. On another site a Brit guy asked if all Americans are mad. If you follow the politics it seems they are.

9 hours ago, Woodie said:

Not at all. You are assuming the US system of democracy is the way, the truth and the light. It is not.

There many forms of democracy. Surprisingly, not all formed by the amount of money given by supporters.

I giggle when I hear the dreaded word Socialism mentioned in the conversation in the US. Notice i did not say America. That is North and South America, made up be a lot of countries.

Socialism as used in the US terminology seems to be another form of Communism. I think it is far from it. Maybe we in the west could all learn a thing or two from say the Scandinavian countries etc., where the countries wealth is spread around, at least far more equatably than in other countries.

Yes, the terms and labels mean different things. After a long time on the left I gravitated to the centre-right in my country. But I would still be considered a dangerous lefty by the American Right. Liberal in the US means very left-wing, progressive; everywhere else it means classical liberal, informed by the ideas of the Enlightenment and the caring society. I consider myself a liberal, I think nearly everyone does. But I'm not a liberal in the sense it's understood in the US.

I honestly believe the United States has lost its way the last few years, and no longer has much moral authority or leadership in the West ...

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16 hours ago, Woodie said:

Not at all. You are assuming the US system of democracy is the way, the truth and the light. It is not.

There many forms of democracy. Surprisingly, not all formed by the amount of money given by supporters.

I giggle when I hear the dreaded word Socialism mentioned in the conversation in the US. Notice i did not say America. That is North and South America, made up be a lot of countries.

Socialism as used in the US terminology seems to be another form of Communism. I think it is far from it. Maybe we in the west could all learn a thing or two from say the Scandinavian countries etc., where the countries wealth is spread around, at least far more equatably than in other countries.

You assume wrong! I do not assuming the US is the only form of democracy, nor did I say that or imply. I don't have that kind of arrogance that you imply.  I leave that to others.

Also, for the record, America is democratic republic, and not a true democracy (majority rule).  Regarding your comment that America isn't America, those statements aren't pertinent to my message.  But, if you insist, "The United States of America (U.S.A. or USA), commonly known as the United States (U.S. or US) or America.   This is well documented.  Regardless;  

Yes, I do believe that Socialism, is a gateway to communism.  Socialism is in direct conflict with the Constitution of AMERICA (there goes that word again).

"Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy."  Me personally, I believe governments are for the purpose of destroying free-will, taking from the people, and ruining societies.  Any thing Central, pulls the powers away from the states.  Is there a more wasteful, inept organization, who's record of being wrong, far outweighs any success story.

America was built on the idea of freedom and market capitalism, not socialism.  When freedoms are stripped, free-will is lost and from that point it is down hill, in many regards.  You quote Finland, did they come to the aid of europe to end WWI?  Did they save europe from become colonies of Hitler?  I don't remember Church Hill (Great Man) begging Findlan.   I think Finland would be a bad choice to count on to support and protect you. They don't bring anything or much to the world, in any forms.  America became a superpower, because of freedom and capitalism, not socialism.  America has done a lot of good for the world, and has made mistakes, throughout our very short history on this planet.  Britain once an empire, and colonized many countries, as well as France.  Both are very diminished in stature, as to what they once were....go socialism.

Yes, spread the wealth (translation; take from others to give to others). Don't go out an earn it, let someone earn it for you.  Name me the socialist country that has the power and might to protect you.  The trouble with the many is instead of building up there standards, they prefer to try and tear yours down to there level....that's socialism.

As for you arrogance tone.  Amsterdam, is kicking out Americans, its the brits, they find distasteful.  If you want socialism, go enjoy it.  Not me!

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Jimmy Cargopants said:

I honestly believe the United States has lost its way the last few years, and no longer has much moral authority or leadership in the West ...

No truer words spoken.  America is upside down right now.  It needs to be fixed.  If you look for morality from politicians, you are already lost.  Morality comes from your spiritual guidance's and beliefs.  A lot of politicians are immoral, and those are our so called leaders.  Do you think I want them to have more power (Socialism).

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7 hours ago, seven said:

You can’t expect merrkans to understand this. Heck, half of the population voted for the orange manchild.

To quote him: ‘I love the poorly educated’.

"After winning the vote of the state’s Republicans by a wide margin on Tuesday, the real estate billionaire rattled off a list of those groups who swept him to victory: “We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated.”

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8 hours ago, Zeppie said:

You assume wrong! I do not assuming the US is the only form of democracy, nor did I say that or imply. I don't have that kind of arrogance that you imply.  I leave that to others.

Also, for the record, America is democratic republic, and not a true democracy (majority rule).  Regarding your comment that America isn't America, those statements aren't pertinent to my message.  But, if you insist, "The United States of America (U.S.A. or USA), commonly known as the United States (U.S. or US) or America.   This is well documented.  Regardless;  

Yes, I do believe that Socialism, is a gateway to communism.  Socialism is in direct conflict with the Constitution of AMERICA (there goes that word again).

"Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy."  Me personally, I believe governments are for the purpose of destroying free-will, taking from the people, and ruining societies.  Any thing Central, pulls the powers away from the states.  Is there a more wasteful, inept organization, who's record of being wrong, far outweighs any success story.

America was built on the idea of freedom and market capitalism, not socialism.  When freedoms are stripped, free-will is lost and from that point it is down hill, in many regards.  You quote Finland, did they come to the aid of europe to end WWI?  Did they save europe from become colonies of Hitler?  I don't remember Church Hill (Great Man) begging Findlan.   I think Finland would be a bad choice to count on to support and protect you. They don't bring anything or much to the world, in any forms.  America became a superpower, because of freedom and capitalism, not socialism.  America has done a lot of good for the world, and has made mistakes, throughout our very short history on this planet.  Britain once an empire, and colonized many countries, as well as France.  Both are very diminished in stature, as to what they once were....go socialism.

Yes, spread the wealth (translation; take from others to give to others). Don't go out an earn it, let someone earn it for you.  Name me the socialist country that has the power and might to protect you.  The trouble with the many is instead of building up there standards, they prefer to try and tear yours down to there level....that's socialism.

As for you arrogance tone.  Amsterdam, is kicking out Americans, its the brits, they find distasteful.  If you want socialism, go enjoy it.  Not me!

 

 

 

 

I really struggle to understand what "freedoms", the US has that other western Democracies dont have.

By the way, not that I mentioned Finland specifically,Finland has just joined Nato so that should boost the arms dealers profits. Also as far as countries helping out in WW2. I dont think Spain or Switzerland actually did a great deal to help, apart from Switzerland acting as a banking service.

The US has the freedom to bankrupt it's citizens who contract diseases where most other western nations look after it's citizens in public hospitals.

The US seems to be in a constant round of elections. Not satisfied with one every 4 years, they have midterm ones as well. Also, the election campaigns seem to go on for ever, whereas in other democracies they start roughly 6 week before polling date. No wonder US citizens are loathe to vote. What is it. About 54 % actually vote?. Might have something to do with having elections on a Tuesday! Goes back to the horse and cart days when farmer went to town.

I am not here to bash the US but when comments are made about it being a freedom loving nation, I might point out that the US has been at war for all but about 17 years of it's existence. That's a good example to set.

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Initially, we were discussing the right-wing reactions within the GOP against the LGBTQ+ community. I argued that politics should prioritize the economy, social benefits, and welfare for everyone, instead of excluding minorities. However, I didn't explicitly mention that these exclusions are reactionary responses to what some perceive as an excessive implementation of "woke" ideology. While it's important to let children explore their gender identity, allowing a young child to choose their gender as easily as picking a breakfast spread between strawberry and cherry jam may not be the best approach. Videos of very young American boys dressed as girls have been seen as extreme from our perspective. The issue with reactionary measures is that they often resort to prohibitions and restrictions, particularly affecting those who are most vulnerable. These measures do not effectively address the problem, but rather swing the pendulum in the opposite direction until the next inevitable swing, resulting in a further departure from reasonableness, unless there is eventual resolution and calm.

I don't believe that the US Constitution is the most brilliant document ever written. While it's an impressive text, given that it's one of the oldest constitutional texts, if not the oldest, for a democracy, many other democracies have since drafted their own constitutions. Typically, each democratic constitution begins with a new version of the Declaration of Human Rights and the Citizen, followed by rules that establish how the state will maintain order and allow for changes in policies while safeguarding stability. A constitution functions as an "operating system" for a state.

However, I am concerned that the US Constitution has its own weaknesses that could potentially undermine its fundamental principles of democracy and freedom. For instance, democracy was threatened when a president was elected despite receiving fewer votes from the grassroots voters than his opponent. Moreover, this same individual then sought to claim victory in a reelection bid despite receiving fewer votes than his opponent at various stages of the electoral process. Furthermore, this individual ceased to govern for the people and instead prioritized his personal interests. His behavior became increasingly aggressive towards opponents and critics, raising concerns that he was attempting to establish a dictatorship-like regime in the USA.

It is my hope that Republicans, particularly the more conservative factions, will develop a new political agenda that also takes into consideration the concerns and interests of Democratic voters. It is crucial to ensure that the principles of democracy are upheld and that the rights and freedoms of all citizens are protected, regardless of political affiliation.

Boring ? Have a break, watch the photo below, then start reading again. 

picp.png.1aa363cf17fe330f8372a2088e6adfa7.png

We must never forget that even the most advanced and civilized countries have experienced crises that have resulted in chaos, sometimes taking decades to recover, if recovery is possible (without resorting to extreme comparisons). In today's world, we are witnessing growing instability caused by populist leaders who claim to represent conservative politics. These leaders often create division by identifying enemies to scapegoat, distracting from their own failures in developing the economy and welfare. This pattern is reminiscent of what populist leaders have done in Europe since the early 2000s, and it is also evident in a member of my country's government, who is supposed to be moderate. This government official has accused protesters of following anarchist leaders and inciting violence. In the meantime, these leaders have neglected their responsibilities in governing and maintaining the stability of the economy and social welfare.

I once studied the concept of freedom for two years during my studies that included a philosophy course. The more I delved into various ideas, the more uncertain I became about what "freedom" truly meant. On one hand, I could argue that freedom entails the ability to do and think as one pleases, to take care of one's own needs and pursue happiness. This notion of freedom may have been relatively straightforward to implement in the United States, given the vastness of the country and low population density in the 19th century, which allowed people to easily move and find a place to live happily away from those they dislike. However, the reality is not so simple.

While "I" respect "your" freedom, I also expect "you" to respect "mine", which is why the issue of freedom cannot be fully addressed without considering the concept of equality of rights. I'm not sure if all Americans share the same perspective on this matter. Rules and regulations in each country are shaped by its unique history and culture, and what may be considered normal in one country due to its historical or religious heritage may not be the same in other countries.

Moreover, I often ponder whether freedom or societal rules should allow individuals to pursue vices and still claim to be happy. In other words, are we truly free and do we respect the freedom of others when we indulge in looking for ladyboys and have sex with them ? These are complex questions that require careful consideration and reflection.

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4 hours ago, Pulci Gorgon said:

right-wing reactions within the GOP against the LGBTQ+ community.

I realise this redneck hillbilly is irrelevant these days, but hes another Trump fanboy, same views as the other half population.
We shouldn't even have this discussion on a forum dedicated to transsexuals. This isn't PY though some are doing their best to make it so.

– Rock artist Kid Rock took to Twitter this week after it was announced that Bud Light had partnered with a woman who is a transgender influencer.

In a video on Twitter, Kid Rock could be seen wearing a “MAGA” hat as he turned around and spoke to the camera:

“Grandpa’s feeling a little frisky today. Let me say something to all you and be as clear and concise as possible.”

The artist then used a rifle to fire gunshots at several cases of Bud Light beer while cursing out the company. (More guns. See a pattern?)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kid-rock-shoots-bud-light-102425976.html

 

0e264970-d57a-11ed-91ff-fdebbdfc9c87.cf.jpg

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On 4/6/2023 at 5:49 AM, The-Sith said:

100%

 

the constitution is the most brilliant document ever written.

 

they got it so right because the writers were educated and escaped tyranny in UK and Europe.

If it is the most brilliant document ever written, why are there so many amendments? I take it that in the US the word amendment means an alteration?. Maybe it means something else?

So who changed what?. It is a serious question. I have never delved into it. Just seemed to be very confusing.

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