MH 17

[duke007]

Thai Airways announced today that their flights from Europe to the LOS will no longer fly over the Ukraine.

 

Not something we thought about until yesterday, but I imagine that airlines probably avoid flying over many countries.

 

Have to admit Im slightly relieved when my plane has passed over Iraq.

 

 When I flew with Qatar Airways once quite a few years ago en-route to Bangkok via Doha there were US Warships underneath in the Persian Gulf, after what happened to Flight 655 I was pretty nervous

[SiamSam]

Bring Ukraine into NATO, that would be a 'muscular response'

 

Exactly.

[seven]

Bring Ukraine into NATO, that would be a 'muscular response'

So that Nato has to take on Russia? I don't think thats a good idea

[JaiDee]

I was switching around last night checking out all the coverage of this tragic disaster and landed on FOX, to my ever-lasting regret. If you saw Hannity and even Megyn Kelly and you didn't know that station was a joke you would have come to the conclusion that Obama was on the ground in Donetsk and had pulled the trigger himself. The people who actually believe that foolish network are doing themselves much more harm than good.

 

R.I.P. to all these passengers, talk about being in the wrong place at the wrong time.....and keep in mind, folks, a lot of us do similar flights from Europe to BKK or KL or Spore and could have been on a flight just like this.

[SiamSam]

I did this flight path last December from Oslo to Bangkok with Thai Airways. Yesterday they announced they will be avoiding the Ukrainian air space hence forth.

 

Just read an article saying that Malaysian Airlines will probably not survive. Their brand is becoming too toxic. 

[duke007]

I did this flight path last December from Oslo to Bangkok with Thai Airways. Yesterday they announced they will be avoiding the Ukrainian air space hence forth.

 

 

Just a tad Sam along with others

[Patrick]

I tried to post that same screen shot from Flight Radar yeterday Duke, you're more acomplished than me, I have read posts around the place that were critical of Malaysian for flying over Ukraine, but I think its fair to say it was the chosen (most economical) route from SE Asia to Western Europe, like you I've flown over Iraq, Syria as well as Afgahnistan & Pakistan. There are a lot of crazies in those places, but up until now they lacked the weaponary and (hopefully) the motivation to commit cold blooded murder of hundereds of civillians who had nothing to do with their war.

RIP to all the victims and condolences to thier loved ones, also to the HIV Aids community who lost up to 100 delegates en route to the conference in Melbourne.

It will be hard for Malaysian Airlines to get over this secod tradgedy, It would be a shame if they failed, after all there was nothing mechanically wrong with this plane, or by all accounts the other one.

[lance2546]

So that Nato has to take on Russia? I don't think thats a good idea

Selective NATO support. The Netherlands, Malaysia and Australia lost the most citizens on the avoidable tragedy. NATO could support (Intelligence, logistics) those countries respective Special Forces to secure the crash site and allow teams of International Investigators to determine the cause of crash.

"The Dutch PM is taking it personally, good on him:

Let me be crystal-clear about this," a visibly angry Rutte told reporters in The Hague. "Should it emerge that it was an attack, I will personally see to it that the perpetrators are brought to justice."

Read more at:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/38630812.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Sympathy for all the BMs losing fellow citizens. Putins just a bully and bullies always back down when challenged with equal resolve...

[Hoot]

Inflamed rhetoric removed...

[Hoot]

Inflamed rhetoric removed...

[seven]

What a complete sad mess.

OSSE personel stopped at the crash scene by drunk local "guards", the separatists refuse to give then the black box,  no  ICAO officials  there yet to secure evidence and start an investigation, bodies still out in the open.

I feel for the casualties families.

 

 

lance2546 and hoot,

I don't have a solution for this but i understand you have

[SiamSam]

Too bad those fuckers didn't shoot down an Aeroflot plane load of Russians on their way to Pattaya. What a hateful and dispicable country.  

[seven]

Too bad those fuckers didn't shoot down an Aeroflot plane load of Russians on their way to Pattaya. What a hateful and dispicable country.  

I agree, SS. I almost hope the US wipe that fucking asshat Putin off the face of the earth. The BUP missile launcher was transported a few days ago into Ukraine from Russia.

 

In the news  this evening, a journalist said "what if 200 of the casualties would have been americans?"

[Snick]

Too bad those fuckers didn't shoot down an Aeroflot plane load of Russians on their way to Pattaya. What a hateful and dispicable country.  

I think Russia had stopped routing their plans over that region weeks ago !

[JaiDee]

Someone on CNN just said Putin is probably the richest person in the world.....that corrupt MFER only cares how bad this looks for him, you can bet he is tearing that clown from the Donetsk Militia a new arsehole as we speak......but not on something which can be recorded!

[Snick]

That statement/accusation has been in the news for years, no one really knows what he controls. In a way it doesn't matter because if he doesn't control a Russian company today, he could have it by tomorrow. 

 

My feeling is he is now playing for the history books, he wants to be "Putin The Great", who rebuilt the Russian Empire after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

 

Here is a horrifying thought, what will happen after Putin dies ?

Empires like this often don't outlive the man who created them. Ukraine will want Crimea back, Georgia will want its stolen territory back, the 'stans' will want more independence, etc...

[Hoot]

 

... hoot,

I don't have a solution for this but i understand you have

 

Nah I don't.  All I have is inflamed rhetoric that means nothing.  They are just pixels on a screen.

 

It is a tragedy no doubt.  I just don't like the drum beats that want to bring my country's further involvement in the Ukraine crisis.  It's an eye opener for sure, I would not have guessed if I stepped on the plane that day it would have taken me over the center of that conflict.  I would like to see the bodies returned to their home countries so that they can be properly buried and mourned.

[lance2546]

The Ruskies visiting/living in Thailand are sooo lucky that the downed plane wasn't a Thai Airways 777 filled with Thai nationals. Can you imagine the reaction?

On the other hand since we are all "farang" it could be a tad uncomfortable for any Westerner.

Always keep your packed get away bag handy :)

[lance2546]

There are NOW.

Not to defend the sum bag rebels, but odds are that it was a stupid mistake, perhaps a drunken one. I can imagine discipline is "lax" to say the least.

What is more disturbing are reports of bodies being looted and armed rebels firing over the heads of unarmed International inspectors. The rebels are refusing to admit responsibility and are beinbg supported by Vlad in the "spin battle" to pass the blame off on to some one else.

[Snick]

I've asked a few Thais if they consider Russians to be Farangs, and they always say No.

[lance2546]

I've asked a few Thais if they consider Russians to be Farangs, and they always say No.

Interesting. When I listen to them speaking Thai they usually refer to the Ruskies as farang.

In any case, I wouldn't want to be here if the rebels had shot down a Thai Airways flight. I doubt the locals would actually check nationalities before taking revenge. Pretty much any white long nose would do, but YMMV :)

[JaiDee]

I know Thai's don't like the Russkie's in general, but I don't see how they could exclude them from being farangs; hell, they are whiter and fatter than most  Yanks and Brits!   Ruder also.

 

Chinese, Arabs, Indians I get, but Russkies are as farang as they come.  Again, just going by the literal meaning of the word and before they open their mouths.

 

    Londonstan should crack down on Russian real estate moves, the states also; as always the best place to hit a tyrant is in his pocketbook.

[rxpharm]

Some more analysis that may shed light on what happened. The Buk anti-aircraft missile system is supposed to be linked to a command centre that directs the units' targeting information - and also has the ability to identify civilian and military targets. The Buk launcher in the rebel held area of Ukraine was operating solo - and most likely a trigger happy operator fired the missile when he saw the radar blip.

[JaiDee]

It may have been just one doofus with an itchy trigger finger but he was surely trained by the Russians.

 

Those things don't fire themselves and I am sure they are fairly complicated, this isn't like firing a shoulder-held rocket launcher.

 

 Which is why I mentioned earlier in the thread that *whoever* did this - and since day one it looks like the Donetsk-based Pro-Russian militia - has surely raised the ire of ol' Vlad. He is the one getting the most shit over it, deservedly so.

 

 

[seven]

 

 

My feeling is he is now playing for the history books, he wants to be "Putin The Great", who rebuilt the Russian Empire after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

 

 

Yup, i think so too. Not sure hes doing it right though.