Intellectual Property & forums

[KenW]

Most of what I write here, and possibly on other forums too, is shit.

Comments, jokes, put-ons, slags at mates, etc.

But some of it has been serious. For example, on the VN LBs thread I initiated on LBR many aeons ago, some of that was seriously written, some being taken from the (then draft) of my novel The Theory of Relativity (since published), some from things I intend to explore for publication in the future. Much of it of course was just about VN LBs which I hope members & readers enjoyed and enjoy.

Another example, from another forum I once got kicked off, one known to many of you who are probably still subscribers and contributors to, is a thread I initiated called Readings & Musings, which got me into a lot of trouble given the kind of serious literature I tend to read and have read over a long career, and which I introduced FMs to. Many FMs there got right into me presumably because I was seen as precious, up myself, a paedophile, an advocate of child abuse, god knows what else. But that thread was seriously about ideas, not just bonk and (fake) boobs. So I stopped it and gave up. (Later I was kicked off, so it was not a fuss any longer.)

Hence my issue: in the world of writing we have this thing called Intellectual Property (IP). It means simply (though it's more complicated, as everything is) that what you write is yours. You own it.

On public domains like forums you don't have to register copyright. What you come up with is just yours, it's as simple as that (or more or less).

But, and this is the thorn in the berry bush: what stops anyone appropriating anything they like on a public forum?

So my issue turns to my questions: how is a writer like myself protected re IP? Especially on say, a forum I have been kicked off and now have no access to? Who owns what I created and set in the public domain? And even on LBR where I am among friends (serious friends, but plus many people I don't know from Eve - or Adam), what transpires?

[pdogg]

 

 

Hence my issue: in the world of writing we have this thing called Intellectual Property (IP). It means simply (though it's more complicated, as everything is) that what you write is yours. You own it.

 

On public domains like forums you don't have to register copyright. What you come up with is just yours, it's as simple as that (or more or less).

 

So my issue turns to my questions: how is a writer like myself protected re IP? Especially on say, a forum I have been kicked off and now have no access to? Who owns what I created and set in the public domain? And even on LBR where I am among friends (serious friends, but plus many people I don't know from Eve - or Adam), what transpires?

I don't know.  But I assume what you write is yours.  If someone else took all your posts and sold them as a book, then I guess you could sue whoever stole your words and win.

 

Here's a question from an Intellectual Property Forum:

 

http://www.intelproplaw.com/Forum/Forum.cgi?board=Misc;action=display;num=1092319591

[KenW]

OK thanks.

None of that legal talk holds any clarity for me, especially as it's only opinion anyhow. I wonder should forums such as LBR have some kind of statement in the agree to terms checked box area that says IP is the IP of those who write it.

[rxpharm]

The issue depends on main purpose on what the forum was established to do. If a forum is a place where the main purpose is to share information, I would assume that people posting on such a site should not expect that their writings be exclusive.

 

On the other hand if a forum has as a main purpose to showcase personal writing and ideas, then I would expect that the original poster should expect some sort of IP protection.

 

Ultimately IP protection would probably only  become enforceable/or open to legal action if some sort of monetary gain or loss can be attributed to IP infringement.

 

If you are posting your works free of charge and then it gets reproduced somewhere else credited to you free of charge I would be of the opinion that no IP infringement took place. If however your works were posted somewhere else without attribution and someone was making $$$ from it, clearly there is a case.

 

Of course as I mentioned this is speculation. If you are truly concerned about IP, then copywrite the works you are interested in protecting, or don't post them up free of charge on forums.

[Hefe]

I think a lot of forums, perhaps most,  state in the fine print that they own material/contributions published on their site & they can use it as they please, unless, I guess, it is prefaced as previously copyrighted material.

 

Of course the reality is that anything published digitally is liable to be stolen or misappropriated anywhere in the world.

[pacman]

RX is right. This has come up before & the outcome was if you willingly post to a public forum you lose any claim of ownership to what you posted. That applied to pictures as well. 

 

Not that it matters, as Hefe points out, anything worthwhile can be copied with impunity. Professional photographers can claim copyright if they watermark their pictures appropriately but even that doesn't stop them being lifted. It does make them less usable though.

[thaibound]

2 options:

 

1. write more good special not same  not-you write so not-you no can steal so much for  be rich more from not what not-you do first

(copyright )

 

2. heed the suggestion capping ernest becker's pullitzer prize-winning 'the denial of death' and -- with no expectation of reward whilst breathing upon this spinning orb -- just toss your 'gift' into 'the void'.

 

(no fucking copyright )

[dixon cox]

Imagine the scenario where you posted inside a section with limited viewing access to a trusted known audience.

 

This section is then subsequently sealed off and people charged a fee to access that area because the content is deemed to possess a value by the forum operators which people may be prepared to pay a fee to see.

 

Anybody willing to pay the fee could now access the more 'private' content and this would not be limited to just the initial known trusted target audience, but available to anyone willing to pay the access fee.

 

To make matters worse, even the original contributors would now be denied access to their own 'private' postings unless they too were willing to pay the fee in order to access the area and their posts again.

 

To make matters worse again, even if the original contributors were willing to pay the fee for access to their own 'private' postings they are unable to either edit or delete them, despite the viewing audience being potentially completely different from those for whom it was originally intended.

 

Well, for those that may not already be aware, this shameful scenario has already occurred on another ladyboy forum. Nothing was done other than the forum in question sank, content and all. But that content is still in the possession of the current forum owners and there's fuck all you can do about it. It's all about trust.

[Hoot]

RX is right. This has come up before & the outcome was if you willingly post to a public forum you lose any claim of ownership to what you posted. That applied to pictures as well.

That's not true for photos. Willingly posting them on a public forum does not automatically transfer your copyright on the material to the site owner.  (Edit: That's not to say it can't.  Each site has it's own Terms and Conditions, you need to make sure you know what you are signing up for. )

 

Imagine the scenario where you posted inside a section with limited viewing access to a trusted known audience. That section is then subsequently sealed off and people charged a fee to access that area because the content is considered to hold a value by the forum operators which people may be prepared to pay a fee to see....

I think that is a perfect example of why one would want to find other ways to share photos on public forums. I for one have been looking at just embedding images from a flickr account. I think it is a logical way to go for these and other types of scenarios.

Forum goes private. Delete the gallery on Flickr, all photos gone from the forum in one easy click.

Ladyboy giving you trouble about a photo you posted - delete her images from flickr and they are gone from all forums in one easy click.

Forum doesnt' allow you to go back and edit your posts? - Still no problem.

No hunting through all your posts. It also clears up any confusion people have on who owns the image - You do.

[rxpharm]

Hoot's solution is sound, except Flickr then owns your photos - and generally don't allow pornographic photos to be uploaded. What you need is your own sharing domain where you can upload your photos and decide to link them to forums if you desire. If the situation changes, you can simply move your photos around in the sharing domain, which breaks the link and the photos will disappear from the forum.

 

DIxon is relating some of the history of TLF (The Ladyboy Forms) which developed out of the Asian TS Website. At its height it was the busiest lb forum around 6-7 years ago. Unfortunately the owner made a format change that resulted in major problems, causing him to give it up.

 

The forum is still open as Ladyboy Quest Forum, but very quiet as people tend to associate it with the former owner. It is no longer a pay system. Any former posters who want to get back in are welcome to, with most sections of the forum wide open except for the photo gallery and trip reports which are limited to Trusted Members.

 

As for not being able to edit posts, it is policy of many forums not to allow unlimited editing of posts - as they can lead to problems following threads. Generally there is a time frame usually around a few days that you can edit a post, and then it is locked, or may give a message the post has been edited.

[pdogg]

If anyone wants any of their posts deleted here on LBR, just PM me or BB, let us know which post you want deleted and we'll delete it.

 

If anyone wants all their posts on LBR deleted, just PM me or BB and we'll delete them all. Think two guys have requested this in LBR's history, each for different reasons.

 

If you want to delete any of your photos, go to My Settings then Manage Attachments and you can do it yourself.

 

Enjoy Ladyboy Review gents!  

[Hoot]

Hoot's solution is sound, except Flickr then owns your photos - and generally don't allow pornographic photos to be uploaded. What you need is your own sharing domain where you can upload your photos and decide to link them to forums if you desire. If the situation changes, you can simply move your photos around in the sharing domain, which breaks the link and the photos will disappear from the forum.

 

Not true at all, Flickr doesn't own your photos - below is an excerpt from Flickr's T&C's.  

 

"9. CONTENT SUBMITTED OR MADE AVAILABLE FOR INCLUSION ON THE YAHOO! SERVICES

Yahoo! does not claim ownership of Content you submit or make available for inclusion on the Yahoo! Services. However, with respect to Content you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible areas of the Yahoo! Services, you grant Yahoo! the following worldwide, royalty-free and non-exclusive license(s), as applicable:..."

 

You can read full info about the license in the link I provided above.  But if you keep the photos private - they don't even get a license to use them.

 

Flickr is just one service I'm evaluating, and as I don't post porn, that part didn't matter to me , but I could see how it would not be a solution for others. They do allow nudes though, I still need to do more testing on the services and see if they could be embedded.

 

My ideas aren't meant to reflect badly on LBR , but since this is a post about protecting IP, I'm just illustrating that there are other options out there for people who are afraid about losing control of their own photo content. But you have to think about them ahead of time, nothing you can do once something unfortunate happens as Dixon's story shows.

[rxpharm]

Hoot, thanks for the clarification - that's a much friendlier term of service than they originally had. As for discussions here, no one is suggesting this forum is looking to "steal" anybody's photos - but one cannot predict what can happen in the future, if there are any changes in ownership, one never knows. No one ever thought TLF would go down the route it did either.

 

These discussions are useful to prepare for a worst case scenario, while hoping it never happens.

[pacman]

RX is right. This has come up before & the outcome was if you willingly post to a public forum you lose any claim of ownership to what you posted. That applied to pictures as well.

 

 

That's not true for photos. Willingly posting them on a public forum does not automatically transfer your copyright on the material to the site owner.  (Edit: That's not to say it can't.  Each site has it's own Terms and Conditions, you need to make sure you know what you are signing up for. )

 

I'm sure you're right & I'm not looking for an argument but I remember reading on one of the photography forums a long thread about this & they couldn't agree about a poster's rights once a picture has been willingly put out into the public domain. There were some persuasive posts for both sides & I really can't remember which sounded more compelling.

 

From a practical POV, anything other than a unique picture just isn't worth the time & expense to pursue the offenders in court. But if it's a picture-in-a-million, then it is. Maybe that should be a picture-in-a-billion given how many photos are taken every day. And you raise the point about each sites Terms & Condtions. That's worth noting.

 

I have seen a few of my own pictures on porn sites over the years (on the rare occasions I look...   ) & I was more amused than outraged at the invasion of my "rights".  

[Hefe]

Yes, it is amusing to see all those explicit pics that accompanied members' trip reports on the old TLF showing up on porn pages now.  

 

 

The whole notion today of ownership of digital content is frustrating at best.