Moving To Thailand?

[pdogg]

On my very first trip to Thailand, I started thinking about moving here.

Some of the key factors include how much one likes or dislikes their job in Falangland, how much vacation time is available, and how much savings one has.

Here's a thread to discuss the pros and cons. For some of you guys who have never posted ask your questions because lots of guys here understand the ins and outs of moving here.

And if you happen to be American, I made myself an expert on how to take 401k and IRA distributions. You don't need to wait till 59 and 1/2.

I made the move. You can too! But sometimes it's better to wait.

[Katoeylover]

To Move or Not to Move

for me this depends a lot on you as a person and the life you have back in Farangland. I have a pretty decent life here, yes I work hard but have good friends and family and being single can pretty do much as i want.

I think all of us on a first or second trip always want to live there, but the reality of a holiday where you are a 2 week millionaire to the reality of everyday life is a huge difference.

We have all thought about the move but right now i dont think its for me - there are just too many things i would miss from living in Europe (the weather is one of them!) and too many things that would piss me off living in Thailand. I think the best solution would be 1 month in 3 and have a base where you can keep all posessions.

I still need to work, and though i could do it from Thailand, it wouldnt be the ideal solution. so for now, its 4 trips a year.

[DownLoLarry]

To Move or Not to Move

I think the best solution would be 1 month in 3 and have a base where you can keep all posessions.

I wopuldn't have quit my job if I could spend 4 months a year in the LOS and would probably take two trips ayear of two months each.

[Luung]

All I can say is think both very long & very hard!

It's worked for me, but I do have regrets & I've seen too many trashed lives through people trying to live a dream with an ill thought out plan, too little understanding & just a bit too much of the 'TIT' syndrome thrown in.

This can be paradise or this can be hell & it isn't necessarily up to you. I've lost a fortune in cash & the British pound isn't worth 'toilet paper' right now... And it most definitely isn't going anyware for a long while yet (the government's now trying to sell the public the advantages... Hello, we haven't got a manufacturing base & internationally we're financial services, so what advantages)??

Add to that rampant inflation here & a sky rocketing property market (at least here in CMX, at any rate). Then add the Thai's growing arrogance with regard to the perceived roll reversal, that will only get worse! If we really are at the cusp where the balance of power changes from the West to the 'Chinese' East then we could well one day end up as third class citizens along with the good folk from the rest of the immediate region who get treated like shit here!

I'm lucky in that I'm extremely independent, practically minded (when need be) & I can trade on a skill which is transportable, but that said I've lost nearly all my UK clients because they do like to have a face to face from time to time!.. And granted I do get a fair amount of local work, but it just doesn't pay, at least not very often. 80

I have, however, got a huge amount of advantages living here which I won't bother mentioning because I think they're obvious; although that said, after a 10 year love affair the polish is beginning to get rubbed off & for the very first time I would actually consider going back if the right opportunities arose, which is unlikely not just because of the current situation, but because I've now made myself unattractive to prospective employers & clients alike, so that has to be factored into the equation too!

Still, I don't have to shag messy, crusty, fat, old slags with bad attitudes, cunts that smell of ammonia & scabby elbows, that I've wrenched out of 'Grab a Grannie' & 'Second Hand' clubs & I don't have to watch garbage on the TV like fucking 'Eastenders' either!!.. And I do get to indulge my enduring 'kink' for ladymen whilst living on a mountain with a Buddhist meditation retreat next door... so it ain't all bad. :devil:

You really want to be on a pension or an inheritance here, either that or you'd have had to have been a fucking good thief in your former life!!

[Luung]

Shouldn't this be on 'Thaivisa.com?

[SiamSam]

I continue to struggle with the notion of living in LOS and have since my inaugural trip. I have traveled there 8 times so far with my 9th taking place in April. Each of the trips were approximately 20 days in duration. Thailand is the first destination of my long traveled life that I do not get tired or bored with. I always look forward to going there and find it frustratingly difficult to leave. It is also the first foreign country I feel thoroughly comfortable in. The excitement of the Thai experience has not diminished whatsoever for me. But would I want to live there full time? No. Ideally I would like to be there 5 months a year spread throughout the year. Basically traveling there every 6 weeks or so.

In order to retain many of the benefits my country offers it requires me to be here a minimum of 182 days a year. Less than that and I will lose status for some benefits. Also I still enjoy many of the things home. I enjoy the seasons (well 3 of them at least), friends, family, et cetera. I would like the best of both worlds and am trying to figure out a plan to organize it. The biggest hurdle is affordability.

Living in two countries for parceled out extended periods during the year means two homes and at least 5 air tickets per annum. This is a considerable cost. The other serious consideration is health insurance. Once someone reaches 60 the number of TOTAL insurable days out of one's country is limited. At least this is the case with my current insurer. If anyone has an insurer that covers you out of country for a cumulative total of 6 months a year please let me know.

Now, the other big question is where to get that little affordable apartment in Thailand? Bangkok? Pattaya? Chiang Mai? Phuket?

We'll see... :)

[bumblebee]

Like many guys when they make their first trip to Thailand, I was in awe of the place and could not wait for my next trip back, perhaps to check if I had not been dreaming that first trip. That second trip was for 2 months in late '03, and then I returned for the same period at the same time the following year.

It was on this trip as I began to feel more settled and comfortable in the place I began to think about moving there to live. I discovered Hua Hin, made some friends there and looked into teaching as a means of remaining there long time. One school said they would be looking for teachers come April '05, so I went home and planned my move back in April.

For the first 4 months of the new year all I could think about was returning in April to this little gem of a town on the coast and living a care free life there. The time arrived to finally move and it was one of the the most exciting times of my life. Sadly the job in Hua Hin did not materialise, and so I headed up to Bangkok to look for work there.

Got a guest house sorted and went out job hunting. Man it was hot and sticky traveling around Bkk in a suit and tie, I realised the jacket part was not so important in hindsight. One evening I found myself on Sukhumvit road and decided to check out Cascades. I felt like the king of the world, sitting there in my suit, with all those faces I had seen on the internet in the flesh in front of me.

Anyway managed to land a job, well paid for my first gig, 47,000 a month and life felt good. What a feeling, knowing every weekend was going to be spent in Bkk, with frequent visits to Hua Hin, mind blowing back then, may it never end I hoped.

Times were good, but then I began to see the place differently, from the inside, rather than as a tourist. After a year there, I went home, but returned 6 months later for my second job, this one was even better paid, fantastic I thought, and it was. Got a nice studio, I had a view of the river, what more could a single guy want in Thailand. The contract ended in March '07, so home I went again. Always felt good to get away from the place after an extended period.

In October '07 I returned, but I had managed to save enough at home, that I did not have to work this time and so relaxed and traveled a bit, and discovered Pattaya. Sure I knew about it, but I was more a Phuket and Hua hin guy, still am regarding Hua Hin, sadly have not been back to Phuket since March '07. So it took me almost 6 years, from the first day I arrived in Thailand, to finally check out Pattaya properly.

I began to meet FMs/BMs and felt part of something. The though of working in Bkk again, with all this party lifestyle going on every night began to change my outlook on living there. I had 2 more long subsequent winter trips, the last one I actually went back with the intention of working there again, but perhaps subconsciously my mind had decided against it, and that holidaying was to be my Los experience from then on.

So where am I going with all this. Well I really did enjoy my time living there, but after 3, 6 month winter trips, I could not see myself going back and working there again. Los to me now is about holidays and meeting up with like minded friends. These trips were more than enough to satisfy my Los and LB cravings and I always look forward to getting away from the place, burnt out.

Will I ever try working and living there again, I very much doubt it. So as some have said, perhaps a few months each year is a good compromise for the non committed. Hope I didn't bore you all. :rolleyes:

[SiamSam]

Quite the contrary BB. Not boring at all. Very interesting story and something I would enjoy speaking with you more about when we meet next.

You were pointed out to me by DK one night at EZY bar but you were surrounded by a number of the establishment's finest so I decided not to interrupt. Next time perhaps I will not be so polite and just burst into your circle of fans. :)

[bumblebee]

Quite the contrary BB. Not boring at all. Very interesting story and something I would enjoy speaking with you more about when we meet next.

You were pointed out to me by DK one night at EZY bar but you were surrounded by a number of the establishment's finest so I decided not to interrupt. Next time perhaps I will not be so polite and just burst into your circle of fans. :)

Feel free to butt in next time you see me holding court SS. :p Just kidding, maybe we will have that one day overlap in April. Cheers.

[Luung]

Didn't bore me either Bumble Bee.

I did a bit of part time teaching in a private Korean school up here in CMX a few years back & they sacked me for teaching English rather than American... And that's absolutely true!! I doubt that anyone wants the story? but if you do just ask.

Funnily enough, they told me that I could work out the rest of the month & when I replied, "Poke it"! in my best Cockney/Estuary English, they actually had no problem understanding me, what so ever!

PS. I should have mentioned in the other post that in spite of my griping & all the rest of it with failing assets in the UK & what not... I wouldn't have changed any of it!!!.. I've had a fucking ball, living like a reckless teenager on hard drugs with a 'hard on'!.. And I managed to reignite a former life that was beginning to go stale too. :devil:

[johnnydiver]

What a great little thread! I thank you all for posting your thoughts and advice. I am mulling the thought of retirement there but I am also looking to buy something that will keep me busy. I hope all of the members will continue to share! Thanks again!

[Luung]

What a great little thread! I thank you all for posting your thoughts and advice. I am mulling the thought of retirement there but I am also looking to buy something that will keep me busy. I hope all of the members will continue to share! Thanks again!

Retirement's a big step, especially with our failing currencies!

I personally wouldn't buy!.. The condo market (The market where we can buy), is incredibly over priced, at least hear in Chiang Mai & I believe virtually every where else too... So there's no longer room to keep yourself busy buying up old run down condos in need of repair. That was a good game to be into around 3/5 years ago, but unfortunately I couldn't get money released from other projects, so I missed my wave!

If you have got a Thai partner (Not recommended), there's a shit load of repossessions going around & filthy cheap too, on the older & crankier Moo Banns (The Thai's like 'box fresh' new! & they believe in ghosts) so you'll easily find yourself something 'undervalue' that needs renovating & will most definitely keep you interestingly occupied!

I myself will only rent at the moment, but it's still worthwhile getting low rental houses in need of care! The Thai's are really lazy bastards when it comes to this sort of stuff, so there's a lot of scope for the bold of heart. I really lucked out, because I was prepared to get my hands dirty & there are stupid Falang around the corner from me paying 'four' times as much rent has me to live the same structures. Mine will eventually look better too because I'm creatively minded & I enjoy the work too!

Much better to invest in some decent power tools rather than chuck the money down the toilet in rent!

And BTW, I've told the landlord that the fucking lot gets 'ripped out in two hours flat if he tries to up the rent on me, now that I've vastly improved the quality of the place! You've most definitely got tom do that & make it very clear right from the start, otherwise the bastards will shove the rent up on you!

[SiamSam]

Unc,

What is the average rent one can expect to pay for a new two bedroom condo with AC, internet, and security in a safe neigbourhood close to the city core in Chiang Mai?

[bubba]

Unc,

What is the average rent one can expect to pay for a new two bedroom condo with AC, internet, and security in a safe neigbourhood close to the city core in Chiang Mai?

What he said, Lung. :mellow:

[Luung]

Unc,What is the average rent one can expect to pay for a new two bedroom condo with AC, internet, and security in a safe neighborhood close to the city core in Chiang Mai?

Sorry Sam, I've been up to my eyes in it!

What he said, Lung. :mellow:

C'mon Bubba... You can try not to be quite so 'kurt' can't you?... Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease. :rolleyes:

Sorry, I've been out of forumland for a while, every now & then the real world catches up with us!

Firstly, are you talking about renting or buying?

Secondly, I just don't look at the condo market any more... And haven't done for quite a long while now because they are so unrealistically prices, JMHO.

I'll take a stab at 4,000,000 (still overpriced)baht rising to 15,000,000 baht to buy :money:..And roughly 20,000.00 baht per month (still incredibly overpriced)on a rental rising to about 40,000.00 Baht at the luxury end! :money:

The game's gone as wide open as it's gone absolutely crazy! And if you're considering buying right now, with the strate that our currencies are in & the INCREDIBLY over inflated prices, then you've got to have little more than the brains of a chocolate frogg!

PS. BTW, drop out of touristville & the prices can become staggeringly cheap

[Luung]

A couple of years ago I spent some time in a really nice 2 bed condo right on top of the Moat for 9k per month... And a year before that I had an exquisite 1 bed just outside of the centre of town with beautiful views of the mountain & 2 balconies for 4.5k per month, with 24hr security, wyfi & a parking space too... So you can still get good quality cheap, but you've got to know the place & be prepared to do leg work... Lots of it.

If you go into an estate agents... You're gonna get raped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SiamSam]

Thanks Unc. I figured you were up to your tits with something since you hadn't posted in awhile.

How many square meters in a fairly new condo complex with parking, AC, (pool?) internet, in a clean safe area get you for 4,000,000baht to buy or 20,000 per month to rent? I don't give a rat's ass about being close to the action or the tourist areas. Just want a good neighbourhood close enough for shopping, restaurants, et cetera. I don't wanna be in the boon docks but also don't need to be in the middle of action central.

[SiamSam]

Unc,

I sent my post above prior to reading your latest post.

When the time comes I will commission you to handle my CM real estate interests. :)

I don't wanna get raped...

[deepthroat]

I'm still planning on eventually spending 3-5 months a year in LOS, but the idea of living there full time has never really appealed to me. I know I'd end up feeling trapped, and I enjoy the USA so I'd want to be able to return regularly, especially for spring and summer here in Spokane.

I've bought an income property here, and the grand plan is to let the tenants pay the mortgage for 10 years, then when I'm 60 I'll start drawing down my 401k and move from my huge house into one of the smaller rental units, so I can earn additional income by renting my home and living in the smaller rental unit. That should provide an additional $300-500 a month in income, which combined with the 401k will be more than enough for a 4-5 month stay in LOS if I'm careful. Gives me a place to return to in the USA as well, and I can live on my hobby business and retirement savings when here.

PD, how much do you recommend as a minimum in the 401k? Obviously, more is better. I'm not sure whether you have to use the "substantially equal withdrawls" method if you start at 60 or not.

I'm guessing $500k might be cutting it too close, but what about $750k or $1m?

[Luung]

I'm still planning on eventually spending 3-5 months a year in LOS, but the idea of living there full time has never really appealed to me. I know I'd end up feeling trapped, and I enjoy the USA so I'd want to be able to return regularly, especially for spring and summer here in Spokane.

I've bought an income property here, and the grand plan is to let the tenants pay the mortgage for 10 years, then when I'm 60 I'll start drawing down my 401k and move from my huge house into one of the smaller rental units, so I can earn additional income by renting my home and living in the smaller rental unit. That should provide an additional $300-500 a month in income, which combined with the 401k will be more than enough for a 4-5 month stay in LOS if I'm careful. Gives me a place to return to in the USA as well, and I can live on my hobby business and retirement savings when here.

PD, how much do you recommend as a minimum in the 401k? Obviously, more is better. I'm not sure whether you have to use the "substantially equal withdrawls" method if you start at 60 or not.

I'm guessing $500k might be cutting it too close, but what about $750k or $1m?

DT, If you've got a rental property here you ought to get one of your friends to check the place out whenever possible... I've had to eject two different sets of people from a friend's condos in Jontiem before now, whilst he'd been back in the UK, because at the time he was being told the places were untenanted by his lettings agent when in actual fact he was being lied to by this agent who was letting these places out on the sly without telling him... I've also had another friend throw the towel in & get rid of his Thai 'rental' house in Samui for the exact same reason!

One additional problem that I face myself is that in spite of the fact that I've got what some might call a 'luxury' flat in a retirement town on the sunny South Coast of England, I've still managed to attract a succession of bad tenants & apart from the fact of what they've cost me in lost income... The property was one that I'd initially renovated for sale 'NOT FOR RENT', which means that everything is 'high end' & that in turn means that everytime I have to repace anything from a cooker to an intercom system, I get one all mighty, hefty, financial kick up the 'nuts' each fuckin' time... And it hurts!!.. You could, if you're unlucky enough, encounter the same problems, as your 'large' home wasn't purpose built for rental... And being large property, you may well be attracting families??

[pdogg]

PD, how much do you recommend as a minimum in the 401k? Obviously, more is better. I'm not sure whether you have to use the "substantially equal withdrawls" method if you start at 60 or not.

I'm guessing $500k might be cutting it too close, but what about $750k or $1m?

If you "separate from service" which means quit, retire, get fired, you don't have to pay the 10% penalty on 401K distributions if you turn 55 (or older) in the year that you separate service. So if you turn 55 on Dec 30th 20XX you can separate fromservice on Jan 5, 20XX. The 59 1/2 rule is for IRAs.

Financial planners say that if 4% per year is a safe amount to withdraw from your 401K so that the balance never gets eliminated but this is a rough rule.

I think one can't look at their 401K in isolation but really need to look at their net worth and total income stream.

A major part of one's decision to retire early depends on their job satisfaction.

If someone has the money but not the time and is a superstar employee then negotiating unpaid leave is a possibilty but often not an easy task in certain types of jobs and corporate cultures.

[Rossco]

Sorry I do not post here too often. Obviosly what I say is my opinion - we are all different so no one person's choice can reflect that of another individual (My legal disclaimer!)

I have lived here for 5 years and am still inclined to prefer to live here than back in Europe.

A number of factors made me choose Thailand and Pattaya.

I wanted a warmer climate all year

I could afford to retire early in a country with a lower cost of living.

I wanted to live where certain facilities were available:

- Hospital

- Dentist

- Western restaurants

- Western supermarkets

- Entertainment venues and Golf

I do not enjoy living in major cities.

I also felt that Thai is a difficult language so I would be better to live somewhere in Thailand where English would be spoken.

Having first arrived in Pattaya I hated it. I had been to many parts of Thailand over a period of 20+ years and had always avoided Pattaya - My first impression confirmed my original view.

However Pattaya did meet the above criteria. I decided that I could not

1) Live in Pattaya town nor Naklua nor Jomtien

2) I could not live in a gated community

So I looked outside Pattaya and found a great location which makes you feel that Pattaya is thousands of Kms away but is actually only 15 minutes. In fact the village has its own daily produce market, Hair salons (I do not need these too much these days), Post Office, Internet shop, Tesco Lotus/711.

So I do not need to visit Sodom by the Sea too often - unless I fancy a Take Away!

Cost of living. The GBP has taken a big hit - when I arrived it was 74 - now it is about 50 but did go as low as 45 - Ouch.

My utility bills - Electric/Water/Garbage cost me 2500 Baht per month. That includes running a Pool Pump and Water pump to the house, I also use fans and some AC. So that is 50 pounds a month.

There are no Rates/Council Tax/Property charges.

Health Insurance is 55,000 Baht per annum. House + car Insurance another 30,000 per annum

If I compare these to costs in Europe I am much better off here.

Adapting to Thailand is not easy - they do not like Farangs - just our money. Once you understand that fact and absorb it then you know what the score is - just stop being fooled by the superficial smile and accept that if they can rip you off they will. You must be more vigilant and never let your guard down. If you are out on the town recognise you are dealing with and talking to Prostitutes and not the "Womens Institute". Bars are not registered charities so you will pay for a drink - just like in Europe. A Tiger beer costs between 45 and 85 Baht in most bars - 1 pound to 1.50. BUT I can drink a large bottle of Leo in my village for only 50 Baht. So if I want a beer and avoid the bar banter (Hello sexy man) I drink locally and thank my stars I do not live in Pattaya.

The locals are different and actually quiet helpful - they are not bar workers...

If I need a job done at the house I have local people to help and support me. My gardeners charge me 300 baht per week to do the gardeen/clear the gutters etc.

If you move here and choose to live the holiday hedonistic lifestyle you will either die young or become very jaded. The bar scene is NOT Thailand and the people you mix with are not going to provide intellectual stimulation.

I am always amazed at guys who will actually 'trust' a bar worker. Would you trust a hooker from your own country - think about it!

Buying property here - individual choice here. If I was moving here again now I would probably rent.

I did buy BUT I have doen OK on paper. I actually bought with a rate of 75Baht to one pound. So an example - Buy at 750,000 Baht cost 10,000 pounds. Assume sell at 750,000 Baht today at 50 Baht to a pound and I have back 15,000 pounds.

Moving anywhere can be traumatic. I have lived in a fair few places and there are always adjustments and obstacles - try the bureaucracy in France, the Hotel des Impots etc

Thais are very different in their thinking and there is absolutely no point arguing with them nor changing their mind. Best to be courteous and polite and bite your tongue. Not easy but with practice you will get there.

Only my opinion

[pacman]

+2 from me Rossco.

I have read a number of your "Life in Thailand" posts over the years & I think is your best one yet.

And so it should be, you've been here longer & I am sure you learn something every day. I detected a different view of the locals in this post, an evolving attitude borne of harsh experience no doubt.

Now to get all the guys looking to relocate to read & understand it. Cheers.

[Luung]

If you move here and choose to live the holiday hedonistic lifestyle you will either die young or become very jaded. The bar scene is NOT Thailand and the people you mix with are not going to provide intellectual stimulation.

That's exactly why I live in Chiang Mai!.. I'd probably would have been dead by now... Or even worse skint & jaded, if I'd have domiciled in a sea side resort!

BTW, the best thing about CMX... It's the people, you'll in no way find yourself devoid of intellectual stimulation up here!.. The Thai's are a completely different kettle of fish here too! So whilst I agree with your estimation of Thai's in the main part, you've made a bit of a blanket statement & I for one can tell you though personal experience that there's a lot of good Thais out there.

Not @ Rossco... Do good things with good people & you'll meet them!... In other words, GET OUT OF THE FUCKING BARS!

Well, you may not post often mate, but at least if you do, you post really well!

[bubba]

Unc,

I sent my post above prior to reading your latest post.

When the time comes I will commission you to handle my CM real estate interests. :)

I don't wanna get raped...

Sez you! Sam, I reckon a fetching LB real estate agent provocateur might just wheedle her way into your silken drawers be there a deal closure in it. Innit?

I am seriously looking at renting in CM or thereabouts, with the GG "wifey" who hails from that neck of the woods. Been there once for a look see and think it could be the place. Will probably visit again this coming month for a week or so, just to sniff around further.