vanishing thailand The Vanishing Ways of Thailand that us Farangs will miss

[Pdoggg]

15 hours ago, barforth said:

Also there is no reason why the supply from Laos, now a Chinese satellite or from Cambodia should diminish.

Excellent point Barforth!

It seems that Thais are more prosperous than 10 years ago.  But consumer debt is rising

https://www.bot.or.th/content/dam/bot/documents/en/our-roles/monetary-policy/mpc-publication/monetary-policy-report/mpr-box/MPR_2023_Q4_BOX4.pdf

and I don't think bankruptcy debt can be discharged as easily in Thailand than in the West. Nonetheless, anecdotal evidence (such as my better half's relatives) suggests that Issan's new generation is upwardly mobile.  These demographic changes are real.

But Thai business owners can pay Laotians, Cambodians, and Burmese much less than what they would have to pay Thais.  Adam Smith's invisible hand is drawing impoverished Southeast Asians to Thailand.

Most mongers like Thailand's roads, bars, hospitals, hotels, and restaurants.  Moreover, I don't think think tourists can get cheaper sex from Cambodians in Cambodia than they can from Cambodians in Thailand.  Perhaps someone living in Cambodia can or perhaps someone who has a deep boots on the ground understanding of the Cambodian scene can, but I don't think even a tourist who's done exhaustive online research will pay lower prices for comparable sex or lodging. The only thing I've found really cheap in Cambodian tourist areas is draft beer and the vast majority of mongers (there may be some adventurous exceptions) don't want the discomfort of rural Cambodia.  I wouldn't even know where to begin mongering in a place such as Buttfuck, Battambang.

 

 

[Rom]

Yes: the CAMBODIA and LAOS imports who are taking over the Thailand sissy bar scene...  also some PINOY sissies in BKK and Patts ... I have yet to see a MYANMAR sissy in TH but it's only a matter of time since Myanmar is the poorest of the lot AND has a population almost as large as TH... I hear that Myanmar GG prostis in TH are the bottom of the barrel catering to working class Thais.  I also hear it's easy to meet GG prostis in Rangoon but not sissies.  Same for Laos Vientiane when I was there 20! years ago.  Dozens of GG prostis at my hotel disco, plenty scattered in regular bars, saw only 3 or 4 sissies.  Cambodia Phnom Pen was a little better for the GGs with 3 or 4 barfine bars.  Saw a few sissies there; none in Siem Reap.  But if I aggregated all the prostis and sissies I saw in both Cambodia and Laos they would be less than half those I could tally at Nana Plaza ground floor on a Monday night.  What all TH's neighboring countries have in common with each other is that mongering prices there are higher than TH.

How is that possible if they are poorer and attract fewer sex tourists?   My take is that in Laos and Cambodia and Myanmar you are paying a risk and scarcity premia.  Risk because the prostis can get arrested for plying their trade so they pass the implicit cost of that risk to the customer (who is also at risk of arrest btw) in the form of higher rates.  Scarcity because those countries dont have the 1000s of bars and massage joints like in TH so it's not so easy to meet prostis by the dozen like in TH.

The same goes for hotels in TH that are so much more plentiful and price-quality cheaper than in Laos or Cambodia.  Although they are getting more expensive and the 5 bucks a night dives have all but disappeared as have the 5 buck prostis latch ons that made me get addicted to TH.

[Zeppie]

22 hours ago, Cinederose said:

I saw a headline recently which was mocked on Twitter , "Climate change is effecting Transgender workers in Brazil " as it was raining or such foolishness , i go with John colman the inventer of the weather channel the best meteoroligest of our time who from 17 untill his 80s studied weather patterns and said climate change formally global warming formally global freezing was fake , flawed research which was think tanks being paid unseen amounts to churn out garbage and changed every few years , its laundering like the ukraine war anyway i cannot say about ladyboy decline so i will accept what the old masters say is true but Boy Sukhumvit on a friday night is insane hundreds of them outnumbering the girls surely that cannot have always been so 

perfect........

[Zeppie]

3 hours ago, Rom said:

Yes: the CAMBODIA and LAOS imports who are taking over the Thailand sissy bar scene...  also some PINOY sissies in BKK and Patts ... I have yet to see a MYANMAR sissy in TH but it's only a matter of time since Myanmar is the poorest of the lot AND has a population almost as large as TH... I hear that Myanmar GG prostis in TH are the bottom of the barrel catering to working class Thais.  I also hear it's easy to meet GG prostis in Rangoon but not sissies.  Same for Laos Vientiane when I was there 20! years ago.  Dozens of GG prostis at my hotel disco, plenty scattered in regular bars, saw only 3 or 4 sissies.  Cambodia Phnom Pen was a little better for the GGs with 3 or 4 barfine bars.  Saw a few sissies there; none in Siem Reap.  But if I aggregated all the prostis and sissies I saw in both Cambodia and Laos they would be less than half those I could tally at Nana Plaza ground floor on a Monday night.  What all TH's neighboring countries have in common with each other is that mongering prices there are higher than TH.

How is that possible if they are poorer and attract fewer sex tourists?   My take is that in Laos and Cambodia and Myanmar you are paying a risk and scarcity premia.  Risk because the prostis can get arrested for plying their trade so they pass the implicit cost of that risk to the customer (who is also at risk of arrest btw) in the form of higher rates.  Scarcity because those countries dont have the 1000s of bars and massage joints like in TH so it's not so easy to meet prostis by the dozen like in TH.

The same goes for hotels in TH that are so much more plentiful and price-quality cheaper than in Laos or Cambodia.  Although they are getting more expensive and the 5 bucks a night dives have all but disappeared as have the 5 buck prostis latch ons that made me get addicted to TH.

Seems all does not make sense in SEA......Communism and muslim may be the major reasons.

[Zeppie]

22 hours ago, Cinederose said:

I saw a headline recently which was mocked on Twitter , "Climate change is effecting Transgender workers in Brazil " as it was raining or such foolishness , i go with John colman the inventer of the weather channel the best meteoroligest of our time who from 17 untill his 80s studied weather patterns and said climate change formally global warming formally global freezing was fake , flawed research which was think tanks being paid unseen amounts to churn out garbage and changed every few years , its laundering like the ukraine war anyway i cannot say about ladyboy decline so i will accept what the old masters say is true but Boy Sukhumvit on a friday night is insane hundreds of them outnumbering the girls surely that cannot have always been so 

Perfect........

[rxpharm]

There is an important aspect that has been missed in this discussion - that is the rise of smart phone. Even less developed countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, and even Myanmar have a significant number of smart phone users. Of course access to information depends on the policies of the countries - but you can be sure that p4pl lbs and ggs working from those countries will not be as naive, and open to low prices as before this technology was introduced. 

I think that the early days of p4p in Thailand will not be seen again in any country, except those that have low smart phone usage.

Also don't think that inflation isn't around world wide - because it is. Some countries have it worse than others and keep that in mind while your negotiating and hoping for the 500 Baht (or equivalent) long time fee - these rates have almost gone the way of the dinosaur.

[Zeppie]

10 hours ago, rxpharm said:

There is an important aspect that has been missed in this discussion - that is the rise of smart phone. Even less developed countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, and even Myanmar have a significant number of smart phone users. Of course access to information depends on the policies of the countries - but you can be sure that p4pl lbs and ggs working from those countries will not be as naive, and open to low prices as before this technology was introduced. 

I think that the early days of p4p in Thailand will not be seen again in any country, except those that have low smart phone usage.

Also don't think that inflation isn't around world wide - because it is. Some countries have it worse than others and keep that in mind while your negotiating and hoping for the 500 Baht (or equivalent) long time fee - these rates have almost gone the way of the dinosaur.

That is an interesting point.  The free flow of information does have an impact and can affect expectations....but, all-in-all, I am still surprised that TH has an monopoly on sex tourism and still inexpensive cost compared to other countries with similar market resources.   

[Pulci Gorgon]

On 7/8/2024 at 3:41 AM, Rom said:

Thanks gentlemen for chipping in.  Let me make 5 things clear as regards my timeline assessment of the TH sissy situation:

1 - The "Golden Age" according to me (and my pal the Captain Outrageous who contributed to it on the internet) was the EARLY 2000s when ladyboys sprang from all walks of life in TH in response to the interest generated in the internet in the late 1990s.  In BKK and Patts there were fewer bars and fewer ladyboys than there are now but there were much much much fewer of us mongers and sexpats.  That's what made it the "Golden Age": the fact that there were fewer farangs and the ladyboys were fresher and eager to be with us and we felt like pioneers and harem sultans.  Plus the sissies were pristine(no exaggerated surgery or tattoos) and considerably younger unlike now they rarely exceeded 25 yo at which age the bars would retire the old bags.

2 - From like 2005 onwards, ladyboy-experimenting sex tourists surged and many stayed on as sexpats (the Kendos, and the Scotts,...).  But the ladyboys kept coming in droves and my assessment is that the number of bars and sissies peaked sometime in 2012-13.  Since then, the trend has been downward.  As mentioned, there are demographic and rising income reasons for that.

3 - However in my last visit to Pattaya one month ago I assessed the bar and prostis situation to have improved relative to my prior post-covid visits.  The consolidation of prostis in the Buakhao area continues and it is rocking more than I ever saw it (while in other parts of town the opposite happens). 

4 - I am now an old man and if I'm lucky I may have another 10 good years of mongering and even if the number of Thai P4P sissies collapses to 1/5 th there will still be plenty for me... but every year that passes I will be paying more for older ones and facing competition from ever increasing legions of sex tourists especially from Asia that have only barely scratched the joy of sissy fucking.

5 - In our lifetimes, I don't see anywhere else in the world becoming a more attractive sissy mongering destination quantity and pricewise than TH.  Not the PH. Not Brazil. I have been to both and there are no sissy bars like in TH and nowhere near as many as % of the population. Africa is a GG mongers paradise (going back later this year) but there are no prospects of feminine looking sissies anytime soon as homosexuality is socially repressed in some cases violently. 

Hope this helps.

 

The above post explains perfectly what I think except on point 5- I'm afraid that Africa has no longer been a GG monger paradise for less than a decade.

 

11 hours ago, rxpharm said:

 

Even less developed countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, and even Myanmar have a significant number of smart phone users.

 

You can't include Vietnam among the less developed countries like Cambodia, Laos, and Myanmar when compared with Thailand. While statistics are available, a visit to Vietnam shows that their cities are just as developed as those in Thailand, and their countryside is equally developed. Transportation, hotels, restaurants, and tourist infrastructure in Vietnam are on par with those in Thailand. They are simply developed in a different manner, and   p4p is highly restricted by stringent laws. It's not a question of development.

Otherwise, I fully agree that smartphones have changed the deal, not at the advantage of mongers and low prices that you describe no longer exist (I have never found so low prices in SE Asia).

[Rom]

Yes cheap cell phones and the internet changed the world across all professions by enabling instant information sharing and gathering.  But bear in mind that initially they BOOSTED the Thai bar scene by showcasing the sissies in bars to porn surfers worldwide generating an unprecedented wave of mongers newly converted to sissies who flocked to TH to meet them in the bars. Cell phones existed but using them for mongering was only for repeat customers wanting to bypass the barfine.  It was only when social media came into the picture that cell phones made viable the no-bar business model.  The sissies could sell themselves directly on FB, TF, Tinder, PinaLove etc and no longer needed to subject themselves to the grueling bar rules.  The trend inscreasingly is for the prostis to work when they want, wear what they want and bar owners feel they are lucky to have them as FREELANCERS. 

As to "the Thai bar scene" I believe it was and still is truly unique.  I have traveled all over the world and every country has its red light districts and bars but nothing compares to TH BKK and Pattaya in sheer numbers.  Not Ermita (in the 1980s) + Makati + AC together even come close.  As mentioned, in Sub-Saharan Africa and Cuba and DR and Colombia and Brazil there are GG prostis and easy women galore but you never have them bar-packed by the 100s or 1000s in front of you like you do in TH.  And as regards sissies the Thai advantage is even more pronounced.

As regards inflation, the Thai CPI has gone up roughly 50 percent since 1997 (the Asian crisis) but so has the exchange rate so prices for me in USD have on average not changed in those 25 years (although they have eroded the initial exchange rate gains).  In Pattaya you can still find 300 baht barfines but in some places they skyrocketed to 1000+.  I remember at Thermae I could get LTs for 500 with attractive GGs and now it would seem impossible.  I can still get 1000 LTs in Pattaya but only with sissies or MILFs. A young attractive GG will not spend the night for less than 3 or 4 K.

That's my 2 cents worth for today.  Gotta go. Going to watch Biden make a sorrow spectacle of himself at the NATO summit...