US Government Closed

[ArchieBunker]

Bernie Saunders is an independant. The GOP and DEMs must have really bad candidates. Electing Bernie to the senate is as bad as electing a pro wrestler the governer of say Minnesota...

 

Bernie is an avowed socialist but I bet he doesnt live like one thats for certain.  Anyway, Vermont elected him.  He is waaaaaay more Brooklyn than Burlington.  He caucases with the Dems.....

[JaiDee]

Here's another one.....I just don't see the Dems fighting amongst themselves like this.

 

 http://www.mediaite.com/online/gop-senators-furious-cruz-sold-snake-oil-never-had-a-strategy/

 

RE; Cruz;

“It’s pretty evident it’s never been about a strategy—it’s been about him. That’s unfortunate. I think he’s done our country a major disservice. I think he’s done Republicans a major disservice.”

[pacman]

Ted Cruz terrifies me. He is articulate enough & charismatic enough to get himself elected President. And he is self-centred enough to take the US down a path it doesn't want to go. 

 

The world isn't getting safer when super-egoists see their idiotic opinions as more important than the welfare of their country.

[pacman]

In an ironic way it might be, the Republican were set to make games in the 2014 elections and possibly take the Senate. With this act of lunacy their chances are decreasing fast and the Dems will likely keep the Senate and make gains in the House.

 

That's what the rest of the world is hoping. These selfish morons are so intent on saving their seat in Congress that they don't care about the consequences.

 

There is right wing politics & there are radical Republicans. Don't make the mistake of confusing the two.

[JaiDee]

We're not.... those so-called Radical Republicans are the out-there, loser TEA party fools like Cruz and Bacmann, et all .....in this country, those far-right extremists make up only 10-15% of the electorate. The math is simple; this country is split just about 50/50 between the left and the right, the last 2 elections proved that.

 

But then the right is split AGAIN, with the majority being normal, every day Republicans [whom the far right calls RINO's - Republican in name only -in a very angry way] and the extreme lunatic crowd, lead by people like Cruz. So figure of the 50% who will vote Republican every time, only 10-15% of THEM are the crazy extremist crowd. In other words, no worry at all except for the comedy relief of watching the GOP implode more and more every year.

 

Don't be scared of Cruz, he could never win the presidency in a million years......outside of Texas and the extreme lunatic fringe everyone knows he is just an obstructionist scumbag. Even the leaders of his own party.

[JaiDee]

This is what we are dealing with.

 

But don't look, FOX news viewers, nothing to see here........it's all the fault of those evil Dems

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pacman]

Don't be scared of Cruz, he could never win the presidency in a million years......outside of Texas and the extreme lunatic fringe everyone knows he is just an obstructionist scumbag. Even the leaders of his own party.

 

What scares me about Cruz is if there was some major development he could ride to mass popularity. There is no such scenario at the moment but the world is in such a state of flux. For example, if Obama gets on the wrong side of the debt ceiling debate, the right wing media could adopt Cruz as their poster boy & suddenly...      he's the next big thing for President.

 

A little far fetched perhaps but it has happened before & can easily happen again. Everyone wants a "hero" for President & hard working men, or women, of commonsense can be swept aside by the next demagogue. The world doesn't need another demagogue, it needs an extremely pragmatic, smart person who understands what to do at the deepest level.

 

Hillary perhaps?

[ArchieBunker]

 Well, as far as I know, people in the democratic party aren't thoroughly disgusted by those people; you are.

 

Also as far as I know, there are no obvious splits in the Democratic party, as there are between moderate Repubs and out-there, lunatic fringe Repubs like Bachmann and Steve King and Louie Gohmert, as well as their new leader Cruz; all off-the-chart weirdo's whom their own party leaders don't even like!

 

   Read the Salon article.............in all my years following politics I have never seen a party as divided and splintered as the GOP is these days.

 

''Cruz spent a closed-door lunch meeting on Wednesday defending himself against charges from his fellow Republican senators of being a reckless self-promoter with no plan to resolve the government shutdown his grandstanding and behind-the-scenes lobbying largely inspired.''    

 

This would be funny if those obstructionist losers weren't fucking up the whole country.

 

 

By saying that the Dems are not disgusted by the wing nuts in their own party makes my point for me!!!!!

 

Its true the Republican party is splintered.  The Dems stick together.  hell when the Dems had control and one Charlie Rangle D NY was head of the Ways and Means Cmte he got outed as a tax dodger.  His own party BARELY rebuked him!!!  They tend ot stick together.  Its funny you use Salon as a source and no one here says a word.  What if I were ti use Breitbart for a source one something???  There would be howls of derision!!!!!!

[JaiDee]

Well, if Breitbart had a source who was a US senator inside that room during lunch on wednesday, as Salon did, we could use them as a believable source. Fact is, I don't think they did.

 

   Paccie...... Cruz will not only never be the president, he is screwing his slight chances even more than ever this week. Imagine all the millions of people not getting checks right now, and on the 15th that will include single mothers with children who need, you know, FOOD to survive?  When it comes time for the  campaign in 2015 all people will remember about that clown is "wasn't he the guy who shut down the government for a few weeks with no clear plan to get us out of that?"  The American electorate do not like obstructionists creating gridlock in DC, they want LESS of that.  And as I said, his actions this week have proven he doesn't even have support from the heavy-hitters within his OWN party; how the hell could he ever get it from the American people at large?

 

  Hillary will be president in 2016, book it.

[randiuno]

Meanwhile...

Union membership is the lowest its has been in America since 1900, but the 1% (to whom 95% of the income gains in our last recovery has gone), aren't hiring American workers despite making record profits in the last decade....hmmmm.

I admit I'm a Socialist because the truth is Capitalism is not free enterprise or democracy. Capitalism is anti-democratic, and with the looming McCutheon v. FEC lawsuit before the Supreme Court wherein political contributions for individuals are about to be struck down, the country will truly be run by and for the 1%.

Anyway...I am learning how to be a court jester in the courts of the new Feudal lords who rule America. The Divine Right of Capital has replaced the Divine Right of Kings.

[pacman]

And as I said, his actions this week have proven he doesn't even have support from the heavy-hitters within his OWN party; how the hell could he ever get it from the American people at large?

I understand but stranger things have happened. Presidential elections have given the world some rather sad choices. GW Bush was hopeless but how could Kerry have beaten him? So often it isn't about the qualities of the candidate but the failings of the opponent.

And with the cheer squads supported by millions of dollars aided & abetted by such crazy organisations as Fox News, no one can be declared out of contention. I wouldn't even dismiss Sarah Palin getting up.

 

Hillary will be president in 2016, book it.

She's definitely running. She'll be tip-toeing around all the controversial issues so as not to get skewered by some special interest group. Being electable means she has to appear to walk on both sides of the fence while sitting on it. The fence that is.

[pacman]

I admit I'm a Socialist because the truth is Capitalism is not free enterprise or democracy. 

 

Be careful what you wish for. Yes, Capitalism has been hi-jacked by the giant corporations who have managed to lobby for changes to the taxation laws that leave them with most of their profits. Not all profits & not all corporations but there are some serious loopholes. But you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, the answer isn't to give up on Capitalism, the answer is to fix it.

 

China hasn't become the power it is by rejecting Capitalism, quite the reverse. To improve the lives of their people, they adopted Capitalism, all the while flying their Socialist banner. Very clever. They created a Command Economy where the State decides who gets funding & support. It works pretty well though I do think they are heading for a massive correction. They have the world's biggest property bubble for a start.

 

I think the US needs a major event to take place that will demand Washington takes action & make the changes they have been too frightened to touch. They need to ban lobbyists for a start. Imagine if the House of Reps & the Congress sat down to vote without fearing being disendorsed. We would live to see some good policy get through rather than the idiotic spectacle of politicians justifying themselves while playing bluff poker. If neither side blinks & this carries over to the vote to increase the debt ceiling, the ramifications are too horrendous to consider.

 

There is a flicker of panic starting to appear in markets now. The next few weeks are as scary as if the world was on the brink of war. 

 

The Chinese expression "may you live in interesting times" is actually a curse. How very apt for the situation we all find ourselves in.

[randiuno]

@Pacman...

 

You hit the nail on the head...the reason Capitalism works so well in China is because corporations fit perfectly within the pre "withering away of the dictatorship of the proletariate stage" of Marx's communist vision. Corporations are ruled by the few who own, and elect the board of directors, who in turn hire the managers...the workers are told want to do for the benefit of the corporation or in the case of China...the state.  If you replace money/capital with power/political capital, you will see communist China and a corporate world without government regulation are one and the same.

 

Anyway, free enterprise (without fictitious persons known as corporations) and a true policy of one man one vote (not one dollar one vote), coupled with a robust inheritance tax (yes...I said it!!!), to level the playing field at the intergenerational level is my vision of a just and sustainable society.  All I'm asking is a 95% estate tax for all estates over $10 million dollars.  (I mean society should be able to say if your kid can't survive on $10 million, he is an idiot and doesn't deserve it to begin with; and  if he is smart, $10 million plus a Harvard Education, and a network of elite chums from a lifetime of private schools should set him up to succeed in life.)

 

Obviously, I have no political career in American....lol.

 

Cheers,

Randi

[pacman]

@Pacman...

 

You hit the nail on the head...the reason Capitalism works so well in China is because corporations fit perfectly within the pre "withering away of the dictatorship of the proletariate stage" of Marx's communist vision. Corporations are ruled by the few who own, and elect the board of directors, who in turn hire the managers...the workers are told want to do for the benefit of the corporation or in the case of China...the state.  If you replace money/capital with power/political capital, you will see communist China and a corporate world without government regulation are one and the same.

 

I have read your first sentence a few times & it still doesn't make sense to me. It's the pre withering away bit. I respect (but not like) Marx for having the foresight of knowing that Capitalism was forever condemned to a cycle of boom & bust but when you write about the dictatorship of the proletariate stage, sorry, lost me completely. 

 

It doesn't matter, what does is how China is going to react if the US debt ceiling isn't raised in the next 12 hours. With several trillion dollars at stake, they are not going to be happy. They are already in discussions to remove America from its pre-eminent position in global finance. And they will have the backing of every major economy on earth if the US proves it is now ungovernable. There's no way the EU & the BRICS want to go through this every 3 months.

 

There is a flicker of panic starting to appear in markets now. The next few weeks are as scary as if the world was on the brink of war. 

 

The Chinese expression "may you live in interesting times" is actually a curse. How very apt for the situation we all find ourselves in.

 

OMG! When I wrote that I honestly didn't think this would be dragging on till the final 12 hours before the deadline. It really looks like a bunch of crazy US politicians are going to allow the US to default. I read this could trigger the next world recession that will make the GFC look mild. Or it could also be overblown & if no one reacts, it may be sorted out without the world going into meltdown. Not ideal but better than Armageddon.

 

It's incredible that a bunch of people dressed up in 18th century costumes sprouting nonsense & calling themselves the Tea Party get to hold the biggest economy on earth to ransom. And by doing that they risk tipping the country they profess to love down the drain. I have never seen such warped patriotism in my life & it's mostly because they can't stand the thought of anybody getting free medical care.

 

I think after the US defaults Obamacare is going to be the least of their problems. And they have the bare-faced gall to blame their treason on the President. These people are completely certifiable. 

[strocube]

Cruz, Nugent 2016, bitches! Eeeeeeee haw!

"Let the motherfucker burn. Burn, motherfucker!"

[randiuno]

I have read your first sentence a few times & it still doesn't make sense to me. It's the pre withering away bit. I respect (but not like) Marx for having the foresight of knowing that Capitalism was forever condemned to a cycle of boom & bust but when you write about the dictatorship of the proletariate stage, sorry, lost me completely. 

 

.

 

The "withering away of the dictatorship of the proletariat" .  A person could do a doctoral thesis on this concept.  But basically, in classic Marxist thought after the revolution in which the workers overturn the bourgeoisie, there will be a period of time under which the workers will have to be guided by a dictatorship of the leaders of the revolution.  Thus, the communist one party state in all post revolutionary communist countries.  In Marx and Engels theory eventually, the dictatorship would "wither away", and there would be no need for a hierarchy as workers provided in an equalitarian way for themselves.  

 

This concept of the withering away of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is practically and intellectually one of the most difficult concepts related to post revolutionary communism.  The problem is simply that the political elite in communism are still human, and once they are at the top, they will want to remain at the top, ergo...the modern Chinese princelings are the children and grandchildren of the party elite or the military elite.

 

I hope the clears things for you Pac.

 

Cheers,

Randi

[TEXASMAC]

 But for some crazy reason, everybody depends on OUR STUPIDITY. Who is more crazy?

[pacman]

The "withering away of the dictatorship of the proletariat" .  A person could do a doctoral thesis on this concept.  But basically, in classic Marxist thought after the revolution in which the workers overturn the bourgeoisie, there will be a period of time under which the workers will have to be guided by a dictatorship of the leaders of the revolution.  Thus, the communist one party state in all post revolutionary communist countries.  In Marx and Engels theory eventually, the dictatorship would "wither away", and there would be no need for a hierarchy as workers provided in an equalitarian way for themselves.  

 

This concept of the withering away of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is practically and intellectually one of the most difficult concepts related to post revolutionary communism.  The problem is simply that the political elite in communism are still human, and once they are at the top, they will want to remain at the top, ergo...the modern Chinese princelings are the children and grandchildren of the party elite or the military elite.

 

I hope the clears things for you Pac.

 

Cheers,

Randi

 

Thanks Randi, that fills in a big gap in my education. Or lack of it.

 

I vaguely recall reading that the Communist Manifesto makes some mention of a party running itself. As in each worker would contribute equally & there would be no bosses. I have never given that another thought until now because when I read it, I thought I had misunderstood something because that would obviously not work. When plans fly in the face of human nature, they are doomed to fail. And fail they did.

 

 But for some crazy reason, everybody depends on OUR STUPIDITY. Who is more crazy?

 

That's taking a disingenuous view Tex. No one is crazy, no one is stupid, it is a simple fact of the world relying on US Treasury Bills as common collateral for all major banking movements. And if someone can explain it better than that, be my guest. 

 

But this ongoing dysfunction with the operation of the US government is fuelling the need for change. If the Tea Party can't read the tea leaves & stop their nonsense, future debates about debt ceilings won't warrant the attention they get now. If you know what I mean.

[Snick]

Cruz, Nugent 2016, bitches! Eeeeeeee haw!

"Let the motherfucker burn. Burn, motherfucker!"

Who better to save us than a Canadian born Cuban !