Hugo Chavez-R.I.P.

[Lefty]

Chavez never invaded any countries murdering thousands of innocent people in the process .

I ran out of positive votes for the day, so I will just respond and compliment you for your intelligence on this matter. I find myself agreeing with every post you make in this thread, as if you are taking the thoughts right out of my brain. 

[Lefty]

[Lefty]

Thank you Jimslim, Route 67, Willie and Seven. When you post your thoughts on this topic I can see you speak for me too. Good to know such intelligent compassionate caring humanitarians. 

[pdogg]

In most countries the privileged elite have successfully gamed the system to the detriment of the working class.

 

In the USA, the elite has also convinced the working class that their enemy is the permanent underclass rather than the ruling elite. 

 

In the USA, although the ruling elite prefers the Republicans, if the Democrats had a huge majority in both Houses of Congress the lobbyist/lawmaker system would insure the privileged were still rocking and rolling.

 

So in our home countries I would say those earning less than 100K USD/year (pick a number) are the exploited.

 

Now looking at things from a worldwide perspective, enough forum members are doing "well enough" that we can sleep with third world transexual prostitutes for 1000 baht.

 

Now the tables have turned and we are the exploiters.

[Lefty]

Not Chavez, but still a very true quote:

 

[4:17]

Far be it from me to question Johnny Steinbeck, an author I happen to enjoy, but methinks that while there is a certain amount of truth in that statement, at the same time it is a gross over-simplification of the lower middle class and lower class/working class folk and rural folk that were born and raised in America. The zeitgeist of America is a wee bit more complex than that; I don't think Steinbeck cut to the quick/put the nail on the head, etc. (on the other hand, he did have books to sell and I'm sure he understood his market -- I know, I'm a cynical dickhead, 555).

 

There are many reasons, historical and cultural -- not to mention economics -- as to why we never took to socialism to the degree that others have elsewhere -- Europe, for example -- and probably never will. In some respects, speaking as a citizen, I think this has been a good thing; in others bad and in some few respects flat out ridiculous (fetal birth rate and education, come to mind).

 

But that can be said of any social/political/economic system humans have ever come up with, with the possible exception of benevolent despotism (but then the trouble with that is succession). As a species we have a spotty track record on ruling ourselves, at best.

[azza33]

Now the tables have turned and we are the exploiters.

Never a truer word has been written.

I hope the hypocrisy isn't lost on some members of the forum.

Humanitarians.... my arse....

Walk the talk gentlemen... if you are indeed true believers.

Myself... i know what i am... see you in soi 6

[williethepimp]

In most countries the privileged elite have successfully gamed the system to the detriment of the working class.

 

In the USA, the elite has also convinced the working class that their enemy is the permanent underclass rather than the ruling elite. 

 

In the USA, although the ruling elite prefers the Republicans, if the Democrats had a huge majority in both Houses of Congress the lobbyist/lawmaker system would insure the privileged were still rocking and rolling.

 

So in our home countries I would say those earning less than 100K USD/year (pick a number) are the exploited.

 

Now looking at things from a worldwide perspective, enough forum members are doing "well enough" that we can sleep with third world transexual prostitutes for 1000 baht.

 

Now the tables have turned and we are the exploiters.

You had me until that last sentence PD......How are we exploiting????   People in Goa were starving to death (literally) before the Hippies took a shine to the place and started holidaying/staying there.........now,its the most prosperous state in India......Thailand would be equally destitute without tourism....how is that exploitation?.........I think Lita in Famous bar exploited me by charging me eighty ( 80) baht for a feckin soda water.....(7 baht in family mart)

 

    I guess the thread has completely offa track,politics tends to do that.......whether you think Chavez was the Messiah,or the anti-Christ,you can't deny he was adored by the vast majority of his people,as evidenced by his funeral.......maybe those millions of people know a lot more than we (on this forum) do..

[azza33]

In the words of John McEnroe... You cannot be serious.

WTP... Please tell me you are joking....

Oh and in your reference to price discrimination.... Whats up bar charged me 165 for a 10 baht sprite..

Then again the place didnt smell like cat piss... So who am i to complain.

[pdogg]

You had me until that last sentence PD......

I think we both agree that in the USA and the UK that the privileged elite have way more than their fair share and it would be beneficial to have social policies that would redistribute income from those who have gamed the system to the workers.  I guess it just seems to us the right thing to do.

 

IF we expand this thinking beyond national borders then perhaps the worker in Thailand or India or Chad should have a standard of living equal to the standard of living of a UK worker. If that happened then sex tourism would be too expensive for most of us. I'm not saying we should expand this thinking.

 

None of this is changing anytime soon.  A factory worker in the third world won't be making as much as a UK factory worker any more than wealth will be redistributed from Goldman Sachs bigwigs to the guy working at Walmart. So it's all theoretical. And I don't get too worked up over stuff I have no control over.

 

And yes, consenting trade between two parties does benefit both parties so we can continue to have 1000 baht nookie and the girls can send money home to mum and papa.

[SiamSam]

Hmmmm, ask Cyprus how they like the redistribution of wealth this morning.

[Tomcat]

None of this is changing anytime soon.  A factory worker in the third world won't be making as much as a UK factory worker 

 

 .. wages in China are ramping up at 20% a year and in 5 years time you can bet that the USA will have reshored much manufacturing. IPADs and TVs and a glut of other products wont be made in China by 2018. 

Once the price differential is 10% the game is up

 

Im involved pretty heavily in China and all i can say is that at this moment in time the wealth is moving from the West to the East and the South ( Brazil and India)

 

Some products are almost as cheap to make in Manchester as Hong Kong.. and thats today

[360]

[stumblebiscuit]

You had me until that last sentence PD......How are we exploiting????   People in Goa were starving to death (literally) before the Hippies took a shine to the place and started holidaying/staying there.........now,its the most prosperous state in India......Thailand would be equally destitute without tourism....how is that exploitation?.........I think Lita in Famous bar exploited me by charging me eighty ( 80) baht for a feckin soda water.....(7 baht in family mart)

 

    I guess the thread has completely offa track,politics tends to do that.......whether you think Chavez was the Messiah,or the anti-Christ,you can't deny he was adored by the vast majority of his people,as evidenced by his funeral.......maybe those millions of people know a lot more than we (on this forum) do..

Millions of people watch and like Fox news too. So I guess that means they are truly "Fair and balanced"

[williethepimp]

Millions of people watch and like Fox news too. So I guess that means they are truly "Fair and balanced"

completely irrelevent...........please put your thinking cap on.......

 

PD-I still don't get how we're (as tourists-whether sex or otherwise) are exploiting thais..........maybe you're using a different definition of "exploiting" than I know......

 

    Adidas and Nike are exploiting Asian workers in sweat shops, to make their overpriced baubles to sell in the West...Starbucks are exploiting their staff at Central Festival and Big C ,selling their coffee at Western prices and paying their staff Asian wages......THAT'S exploitation.....How are we as tourists exploiting anyone????........

[redrock]

completely irrelevent...........please put your thinking cap on.......

 

PD-I still don't get how we're (as tourists-whether sex or otherwise) are exploiting thais..........maybe you're using a different definition of "exploiting" than I know......

 

    Adidas and Nike are exploiting Asian workers in sweat shops, to make their overpriced baubles to sell in the West...Starbucks are exploiting their staff at Central Festival and Big C ,selling their coffee at Western prices and paying their staff Asian wages......THAT'S exploitation.....How are we as tourists exploiting anyone????........

Gotta agree with Willie.  I don't entertain this sex-tourist exploitation bollocks - not in Thailand anyway.  It's easy money for the lazy wee arse monkeys.  They fucking love it, stupid cunts like us showing up with a fistful of Baht drooling all over them.  I always use the theoretical question; if I was a young handsome man, and an old Scottish hag offered me 20 quid to lick her twat, would I refuse? Not bloody likely.  I used to do it for free when I was a lad.

[pdogg]

PD-I still don't get how we're (as tourists-whether sex or otherwise) are exploiting thais..........maybe you're using a different definition of "exploiting" than I know......

 

    Adidas and Nike are exploiting Asian workers in sweat shops, to make their overpriced baubles to sell in the West...Starbucks are exploiting their staff at Central Festival and Big C ,selling their coffee at Western prices and paying their staff Asian wages......THAT'S exploitation.....How are we as tourists exploiting anyone????........

As individuals, we aren't exploiting anybody by buying a cup of coffee at Big C Starbucks or paying a local for sex.  Both the buyer and seller are better off as a result of the transaction.

 

I'm talking about the system, the way the world works, the capitalistic/nationalistic model.  The way things work on our planet, we are damn lucky to have been born in the West and someone born in Sudan is shit outta luck.

 

The guy in Sudan is probably not lazy and probably works hard if work is available.  But he lacks what we in the West consider basic necessities such as clean water and basic medical care. 

 

Not easy to solve these inequities (even if we wanted to) cause if were to give aid to the Sudan it would just go mostly to the Sudanese ruling elite rather than the guy on the street.

 

So what I am saying is even though we as individuals are not exploiting someone, a system that makes prostitution a great career choice seems exploitative.  

[seven]

So, would this guy taste some pink if capitalism/money wasn't involved?

[seven]

And this guy surely could pull this bird without money involved?

[williethepimp]

As individuals, we aren't exploiting anybody by buying a cup of coffee at Big C Starbucks or paying a local for sex.  Both the buyer and seller are better off as a result of the transaction.

 

 

 

So what I am saying is even though we as individuals are not exploiting someone, a system that makes prostitution a great career choice seems exploitative.  

Yes of course capitalism exploits.....thats completely different to what we as tourists are doing.......Starbucks in Thailand exploit their workers AND exploit the tourists who buy their overpriced coffee,(you think the average thai can afford it?).....Now back to prostitutuon......its known as the oldest profession for a good reason.......If I'd have been born with a pussy I'm sure I'd have sold it if the price was right.........And yes,the pics of the guy seven posted could indeed get pussy /cock in his own country.....Silvio Berlusconi was fucking a 17 year old.....it just depends how much money you have.........maybe he was exploiting the 17 year old,but more likely she was exploiting him,at 2000 euros a pop.

 

Incidentally, a recent conversation with a bar girl in cambo put things in perspective for me....Her English was excellent and she'd been offered a full time job as a kindergarten teacher .....she declined it...when I asked her why,she informed me " I can make more money sellling my pussy"

 

In short-I aint exploiting anyone.....and I resent any suggestion that I /we (as tourists ) are.

[azza33]

Seems to me a lot of people are in denial here.

You are exploiting people... Full stop!

As individuals we have all chosen to use the proceeds of our capitalist society to fly half way around the world to engage in prostitution.

Some of the girls do the job because they like it, most because they are desperately poor. The thailand gdp per capita around bangkok and chonburi is 6x that of issan. Nowadays where do the girls come from... Issan... And only a handful from bkk.

WTP you may choose to see yourself as some type of saviour to these girls, but reality is the demand we create is exploiting their socioeconomic position.

I really hope people dont think we are helping these people by being sex tourists...

As i said previously, i know what i am...

About time some people took a long hard look at themselves and accepted who they are and stop living in denial.

There are no humanitarians or champions of the poor amongst us.

We exploit the poor and underpriveliged in Thailand.

[azza33]

"Its not the lies they tell you, its the lies we tell ourselves"

I recommend reading a chapter of Thai Private Eye" called 'But Why?'

For those with an ipad its only $4.99

[azza33]

Gotta agree with Willie.  I don't entertain this sex-tourist exploitation bollocks - not in Thailand anyway.  It's easy money for the lazy wee arse monkeys.  They fucking love it, stupid cunts like us showing up with a fistful of Baht drooling all over them.  I always use the theoretical question; if I was a young handsome man, and an old Scottish hag offered me 20 quid to lick her twat, would I refuse? Not bloody likely.  I used to do it for free when I was a lad.

Thats a pretty sad quote from a gentleman ive met and know is a reasonable lad.

You would be deluded to think these girls enjoy all their interactions.

Do you realise that these girls have basically given up on their lives and pray the next one will be better?

Have you considered the social issues for these girls once they return to the provinces with everyone knowing they spent the last 5 years in pattaya?

[azza33]

"Both the buyer and seller are better off as a result of the transaction."

Another rather simplistic turn of phrase.

You are only talking in monetary terms... There are far greater consequences for the seller in Buddhist & Thai society.

 

[Jimslim]

There are no humanitarians or champions of the poor amongst us.

 

 

A rather sweeping statement there , so because we choose to have sex with Thai transsexual prostitutes we are capitalist exploiters ? All the same one bad as another ? 

 

What I do doesn't sit well with me 100% and I'm sure many of my comrades at home would have arguments about it but I don't live in denial,like you I know what I am and I'm not perfect none of us are .

 

It is not as simple as simply saying because we pay prostitutes for sex we are exploiting them , I'm sure that applies in many instances the world over but in this instance the majority of guys here come to Thailand because they love Thai ladyboys and I'll wager the vast majority treat them better than their own friends , family and certainly their Thai boyfriends do I know many guys around here certainly do .

 

What about the love struck guy who falls in love and sends a fortune every month to keep a Thai girl and her extended family ? 

 

Is he exploiting them ? 

 

As I say it is a complex issue there is no right or wrong .

 

Next time I'm standing in the rain on a demo against the latest injustice getting roughed up by police I'll remind myself I'm really in denial .........