Moving To Thailand?

[Rossco]

I must emphasise the difference between 'Pattaya Locals' and Thai Locals.

I have discovered some great non Pattaya locals - kind and tolerant.

Most guys here come to holiday - that is not the same. Every country I have lived in (resident) has been very different to the holiday experience. Thailand is no different - well it is different in that I cannot master their language nor their beliefs and customs.....I was not born nor raised here.

So distinquish between a 'run of the mill' Thai and a whore. Same in your country.

I have seen so many guys sponsor, buy houses, motorbikes etc for basically a Hooker.

Do not get me wrong - since the Vietnam war many guys have been to visit and fall for the gentle Asian charms - that is how they are. Genuinely so as Asia has not been polluted by the Western female emancipation shit.

So I also spend more than I should on 'entertainment' - I could return to Europe and date some lardy/spacehopper 50+ bitch with more baggage than Imelda Marcos. What would you choose?

The price of a couple of Ladydrinks and a Bar Fine and an agreed sum - I should try that down the Dog and Duck in the UK on a Saturday. Haha....

My point is try and understand the people and keep your big brain in the foreground. You would not fall for a hooker in your own country - smother her in gifts, fall in love and then marry her.

I hear more stories each week that I just laugh at and say 'ther goes another sucker'.

It is like a mobile phone - take a contract or pay as you go. what is best value for you and is it what you want long term....

[Jimslim]

A good couple of posts Rossco .

I've always believed if you want to move to Thailand you must do it for the right reasons .

If someone offered me a deal now of a comfortable life at home with regular trips to Thailand or a comfortable full time life in Thailand I'd take the first option every time .

A few weeks of hedonistic pleasure suits me just fine as long as it comes regularly , I enjoy it and even though I see and hear things I don't like I return home happy and looking forward to the next time .

How many guys have we read about on the forums who fall in love with Pattaya and want to move there , buy a bar etc etc ?

How many could survive that lifestyle 24/7 ?

I'd last 6 months

[Rossco]

I should have included this piece of info.

In my opinion if you live here, and I mean live not party like you would on holiday, then about 75,000 Baht per month is enough to live on. This number excludes rent or any debt.

If you choose not to buy a property then rental depends on your requirements. A town house will cost 15K Baht per month. A condo depends on floor area and where located but can be had for 12K up.

A house and pool will start at about 30K per month.

A note re Condos etc - normally there is a monthly resident maintenance charge. Many people think a Condo is cheaper but this may not be true when considering any monthly charge. In my experience (5 Years) I have spent a great deal less, on maintenance/repair, than the monthly charges on a condo.

So a choice re residence is not the initial outlay but the 'cost of ownership' is a hidden cost to be considered.

[deepthroat]

Sorry I do not post here too often. Obviosly what I say is my opinion - we are all different so no one person's choice can reflect that of another individual (My legal disclaimer!)

+1 from me Roscoe. Just for posting, and I'd give another +1 for the content. I just commented on here recently that if only you and Foggy would start posting here it would be fantastic. Thanks for answering my request! It was great talking with you at the GOTC.

[deepthroat]

DT, If you've got a rental property here you ought to get one of your friends to check the place out whenever possible...

Sorry, when I say "here" I'm referring to Spokane Washington USA. I hope to spend between 4-6 months annually in LOS sometime in the future (probably 5-10 years from now) but for now I'm just a 3 week millionaire every January/February.

[KenW]

I live in Vietnam, and have done so full time for the past 7 years. Before that I lived here on and off through the decade 1994 - 2004. I would not at this stage consider living in Thailand, even if I did briefly tinker with the idea prior to my second trip to Pattaya last year. That second trip sealed the decision, probably forever: no. (Or at least definite no to Pattaya.)

However, there are many similarities between Vietnam and Thailand. Hence my few feeble thoughts about my life here in VN may have some comparative relevance for folks contemplating this question of living in Thailand.

For example, to tell you a bit about cracking eggs, both are vibrant southeast Asian cultures with booming economies and open welcoming palms for tourist dollars. Both are high density excitingly populated places (Thailand about 40 million citizens, VN about eighty million). Both are rich in culture and history. Both are centered, for foreigners at least, on a large metropolis or two, with a few beach resorts and many small country towns. Climates are almost identical.

Costs of living are relatively cheap in both countries. Certain rules pertaining to foreigners are similar also. For example, shortish visas for tourist visitors. Three monthly visa renewal for long term expats. In neither country can foreigners own land (exceptions are some foreign companies who get long terms leases). In Thailand expats can own condos, in Vietnam not so. In neither can you own a house. In Vietnam foreigners can invest in house, land, apartments, but the deed documents must always be in a Vietnamese name. I don’t know whether something similar applies in Thailand.

Both countries have human morphologies that I personally consider among the most elegantly gorgeous and sexually attracting on the planet. Whether your interests be girls, ladyboys, femboys, boys or flat chested back bowed grandmothers, there is much of beauty available and on offer.

So, as I said, here are some comparative thoughts, not about Thailand, but which may let you see some issues that might be relevant to Thailand. Why would you consider living full time in southeast Asia? For me that comes down to three things: cost of living, lifestyle, and what you’re prepared to give up.

Cost of living, as I said is relatively cheap. Relative to the first world that is. Rossco says in an above post he thinks you can live in Thailand for about (in my rough equivalence to his TB) 2300 USD per month. I was a bit shocked at how expensive that might be for some. Especially as he made the specific point that he was not talking about holidaying, but about permanent dwelling. I maintain a household in Vietnam on about 800 USD a month, which includes a full time live-in maid on wage and full keep, all local market as well as supermarket costs, plus my drinking bill. That budget amount also allows me about 3 or sometimes 4 evenings in what I would call good, but not flash restaurants. Occasionally, if I’m hosting visitors say, I get out the Visa card and take them to a flash joint downtown.

Rossco also said rentals varied from about 450 USD on up, depending on what sort of luxury you were after. I don’t pay rent, so that is a save for me. But rents here in VN for expats start at about 400 USD a month, and go up with size and swank. So on Rossco’s evidence that’s similar to Thailand.

I gather from expats I have talked to that you can buy a fairly normal condo for about 50,000 to 60,000 USD (correct me if that’s wrong, I’m merely reporting what I was told). In VN you can also get an apartment, two bedroom, for about that same sum. Difference being in VN you cannot own it, but have to have a Vietnamese signatory on all deed documents. In VN provided you have that signatory, you can almost own anything. Well, not own obviously, but sink the funds into. If you have someone you trust (or as many expats do, have a wife or long term partner) you can buy a house in VN, as I did 7 years ago. I purchased land and had a 3 storey 4 bedroom townhouse with full length roof deck built. Cost all up for land and construction: 100,000 USD. To put that in context, I sold my Australian suburban house back then for about 400,000 USD.

In this monthly budget context it is necessary to know that since the Global Financial Crisis or a bit after, global food prices have skyrocketed. Here in VN I was paying at that time about 150 USD on local market costs for food, but now pay about 400. Accordingly, water, electricity, gas, petrol, and other prices have begun to creep up in response. Now, none of us know what is going to happen to food prices and consequent costs of living. It is unclear whether this is an upward trend, whether it will begin to bobble about, cycle, drop back down or whatever. So if pondering a move, don’t forget to take such things into account. They are not minor.

Secondly, lifestyle. Anyone who reads these forums knows about the Asian lifestyle. Not much more to say really, but for me it is a key factor in determining where I am now located. I am in my regular daily life a rather boring chap, a bit of a recluse, too old now to be bothered carousing or seeking a hedonistic orgy based nightlife. But I still appreciate beauty, and still seek my quiet share of good times. VN is not what it once was, though of course Thailand still is and more. VN was in the 1990s headed down the Thai track. But the government reined that in, said whoa, and pulled out all stops to “prevent VN becoming another Thailand” in the repeated media pronouncements of political spruikers. If however, you learn the subtlety and appreciate it, you can still find in VN pretty much what you want. VN is no longer in your face the way places like BKK and Pattaya are. But if you sniff about, peek under the protective skirts of apparent plainness, the familiar stench is there.

I live in the southern suburbs of Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon), some 15 minutes by taxi from the centre of town. In a 1 kilometre radius of my house there are roughly 40 large Vietnamese eateries (combo bar and restaurant), 4 massage parlours (big 4 or 5 storey affairs), 20 hairdressers with aircon (a euphemism for small massage parlour with 4 or 5 girls working), and 4 hotels of >6 storeys (the best index of P4P sex in VN, which almost always - 90% anyhow - takes place in hotels). Girls everywhere, about 1,000 I would estimate working in that 1 km radius. Not so much LBs these days. But somewhere near where I live (no-one knows exactly where – we think it’s a state secret) there’s a factory that keeps churning out on a production line wall to wall beauty with pretty petite bumlets, long slim legs, tiny titlets, flashing blue shiny hair, and big cock sucking lips. And a large percentage of them are for sale.

Well, that’s drifted me off into sex hasn’t it. Lifestyle is of course about much more than that. There’s beach, there’s mountains, there’s boat rides, there’s motor biking, and all sorts of things readily and cheaply available. For an old codger like me there is also a weird combination, hard to describe to you, of hum and quiet. My place is peaceful, my street more often than not, without noise. But I am only 50m from a main drag where most of the action is. So in a short walk I can get the best of both worlds. I can spend the day quietly reading and writing in my study, then drift out at night to a vibrancy the likes of which I never encountered in my previous life in Australia. And then it is a case of you never know your luck in the big city.

Or if I stay home, as I mostly do, I retire to my roof deck with a cask of cheap vin ordinaire, look at the stars or clouds, hunker under the roofed part if it’s raining, taking in the city lights, the sturm und drang of the summer lightning, or merely enjoy the calm mayhem of the busy littleness of the world below.

This may sound a bit eccentric, but another lifestyle plus for me is the continual presence of street vendors. So many small things for sale come past my place, household goods from waste bins to brooms, a locksmith’s keys and locks, foodstuffs from rice gruel soup to fresh fruit of all sorts to ice cream to hot corn cobs, the straw mat man, pillows, towels, baby clothes, it just goes on and on. Then there are the re-cyclers who will buy our leftovers and broken junk.

In the Sahara Desert that was almost any Australian suburb I lived in, you would have had a heart attack had you ever been interrupted by the sound of a daily vendor going by at three in the afternoon shouting (in VNese) “cabbage, carrots and cauliflower”. You can’t buy that kind of life experience. It’s magic.

I eat VNese nosh almost every day, for lunch (their main meal), but in the evenings, unless I’m going out, I eat Aussie/Caucasian dishes, Italian, Indian, Thai (maid taught to prepare all these). In the street my lifestyle means I mostly eat VNese when out, but make sure I get my share of Indian, French, Italian restaurants as well.

Finally, what you’re prepared to give up. Well, I enjoyed my career, had a job in Australia that I would not have given up other than to take a better one in the same field at a better institution. That didn’t happen, and in fact, the opposite did. A series of government budget cuts and appalling local management decisions made the area I worked in almost untenable, and while I wasn’t made redundant, many were. I saw the writing on the wall and took early retirement. I decided it was time to live in Asia. So I did give up a job, but in a sense I wasn’t giving up anything in that line for my job was not what it had once been, was no longer enjoyable. But I can well understand anyone with a good job, a good income, being reluctant to pass that by just to move to Ladyboyland.

Western lifestyles appeal to many, and I’ve read on the boards about FMs who like life in the UK, the USA, and other places. Fair enough. I lived (permanently) in Australia all my life, so going to live for the long haul somewhere new was exciting and a completely adventurous experience for me. I left Australia with no patriotic regrets.

It’s the small things I miss. While the booze and the food here are good and cheap (although food not as it once was), I do miss some things. Examples include roast dinners of chicken lamb pork, good sausages, real hams, chips (here 90% of the time you only get served despicable greasey tasteless French Fries – thanks to both French & American historical influences), especially as genuine Aussie fish & chips, and Aussie meat pies (with peas) and sausage rolls.

I have an oven and have taught my maid to grill and roast chicken and pork, but it just isn’t the same somehow. I can’t explain it. I also eat grilled sausages once a week, but the quality here is pathetic compared to real locally made Western butcher’s snags.

I miss high quality cheap Australian wine. I drink wine here that is cheap, but it’s mostly rubbish. The import duties on things like wine are in the hundreds of percent, so an el cheapo bottle of low grade Aussie or New Zealand wine, back there 10 bucks, will dint your wallet by perhaps 30 bucks here. Forget it. For that same 30 bucks I can and do get 10 litres of local plonk.

I desperately miss a good library. I have a largeish private collection, and spend lots of time reading on the internet, but it’s not the same as venturing into a massive high quality library, sequestered and cool, ancient and modern, and roaming the stacks, choosing unread or favourite things to browse or borrow.

So would I move to live permanently in Asia (Thailand in the case of this thread)? No, not Thailand at this stage. Perhaps, after my most recent visit to Pattaya, not ever. But I did once move to VN. Will I stay on? I’m not sure, as things here are not as attractive to me as they once were. But would I want to go back to Australia? No, definitely not.

[Rossco]

KenW

Interesting to hear about Vietnam.

Population of Thailand is 64 million and Vietnam 84 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_in_2005

Thailand and Vietnam are similar in that the countries are economically/socially divided.

North Vietnam vs South and Thailand has Issan which has over 50% of the population.

I guessed that as soon as I quoted expenditure there would be some controversy. Everyone's view of expense is unique so I can only quote from personal knowledge. I know many who spend far more than me but these guys are still working (Oil and Gas) whereas I am retired. I also know many who spend far less due to their own finanical situation.

I have a 3 bed/2 bath house on 880 Sq Meters of land. I also have a pool and maid's quarters (empty).

A breakdown of expense would be:

37,000 Dining/Entertain/Drinks/Cigarettes - Batchelors tend to go out more - 1200 Baht average/night

3,000 Gas for car/Motorbike

7,000 Groceries

7,000 Insurance - Health/Car/Home - Average per month but paid annually

2,500 Utilities - Electric/Water/Garbage

3,000 Garden/Pool maintenance

1,500 Phone/Internet

10,000 Repairs/Misc - Unplanned expense. PC fix, Mobile battery, Lighting, Decorating, Car service

71,000 Total

So my figure may be totally different to any other person. If you take out the discretionary spend it is 33,000/mnth. So if I cut down on the nocturnal side I could live more cheaply.

A foreigner may buy a Codo here and they start at 1.5 million Baht (studio).

Obviously prices vary by location and size - there is not one price fits all.

It is possible to buy a house here. 3 options:

1) Buy in a Thai nationals name - not the best choice as TRUST is a big issue

2) Buy land in Thai's name. The dwelling in the foreigners name. Has a renewable 30 year lease on the land. Problem if you try to sell during the lease period.

3) Set up a limited company whereby the foreigner has 49% of the shares. The law firm reps hold the other 51% but you have a letter of authority giving you 100% voting rights

Prices vary enormously based on location and the spec. A friend recently built a new house having acquired the land separately and ended up with a superb walled in home for total 5 million baht.

Rentals vary greatly. Depends on location, age of property, facilities. A basic condo with no pool etc is about 15,000/mnth. A townhouse (2 storey/2 bed) outside town about the same. Houses outside Pattaya town with Pool etc start at 35,000/month

I understand your point re Pattaya. Why would anyone live in a whore house long term? Holiday I understand but for life? Howver Pattaya does offer all the other amenities so living outside and far enough away makes it perfect. You want to go to Pattaya it is 15 minutes away but may as well be a million miles away. So close enough for all the benefits but far enough away to have a normal life.

Both in Pattaya and outside I can get my 'top-up' of Western food. In fact the place I go for Sunday lunch is superb - Turkey/Beef/Lamb/Pork all served with the usual trimmings.

I know a number of foreigners here, from many different lands, and we are all guilty of moaning about something - must be old age! The major gripe is the Visa but it is only every 90 days and a quick visit to immigration. However we all are of the opinion that we would not return to our country of citizenship. Every country has its awkward aspects but I think a small price to pay for a far better lifestyle.

I have been shocked about the insecurity people feel back in Farang land. People tell me that they do not go into their local town at night. Pattaya, for all its bad rep, feels safer to me - but then

I do tend to stay out of the dark Sois and avoid the Beach at night - all common sense.

[Hefe]

KenW,

Thanks for such a detailed & thoughtful layout of an expat's life in VN. The larger issues you address seem to be true generally of living abroad.

As others have experienced, after my first trip to TH I immediately booked my next trip & started studying Thai, 16+ years later being monolingual & with almost annual trips to SEA I'm a bit more circumspect. Perhaps being a snowbird would fit better, but that would be costly & sort of defeat the idea of retiring abroad to cut expenses & live better. I also think the constant tropical heat & humidity may be an issue for me. Also in the near future, I am cautious about the stability of public order once the " r e x " departs us & all of these repressed factions sort things out.

Question to the board: I never hear of guys on these fora talking about living in Malaysia, it would seem the preponderance of English, good food, & lack of visa trips for retirees would be a big plus + being a hub for a low cost air carrier. Any thoughts on why?

I had been thinkng I need another 5-6 years to reach financial independence to retire, I did "sum figgerin'" this week & if all goes well (not holding my breath) I might be able to do it in 2-2 1/2 years possibly. Something to help me return to work each day now!

DT,

If you have $637,000 in retirement accounts you can withdraw (@4%) a bit over $25K/year safely, $1M = $40K/yr, etc., if you add in other income & Soc Sec you get some idea of your total future income.

[DownLoLarry]

Question to the board: I never hear of guys on these fora talking about living in Malaysia, it would seem the preponderance of English, good food, & lack of visa trips for retirees would be a big plus + being a hub for a low cost air carrier. Any thoughts on why?

snowbird

I've never been to KL but have the impression that the cost of living is higher than Bangkok and the P4P opportunities not as good.

For those 50+ the retirement visa is easy to get and not very expensive. It will cost you an extra 1000 baht for a rentry permit (make sure you get one at immigration, u can't get it at the airport) or I think 3900baht for multuple rentries for that visa year.

Here's Azza's great story of an encounter in a KL brothel:

Think Hefe's idea of snowbirding, not to be confused with snowballing, is an excellent alternative for those who don't want to sever ties with home countries.

And it doesn't have to be expensive either.

OK, you have to fly, let's say it's 1000 USD, but frequent flyer miles will mitigate some of that cost.

Monthly rents are cheap.

And cost of living is cheap if u live like an expat and don't go to the bars or do P4P everyday.

Good time to arrive is before Loy Krathong and go back home either right before or after Songkran depending whetehr or not one likes it or wants to avoid it.

Or for those who prefer to be home for Christmas you can fly out shortly afterward.

[deepthroat]

OK, you have to fly, let's say it's 1000 USD, but frequent flyer miles will mitigate some of that cost. Monthly rents are cheap. And cost of living is cheap if u live like an expat and don't go to the bars or do P4P everyday.

Good time to arrive is before Loy Krathong and go back home either right before or after Songkran depending whetehr or not one likes it or wants to avoid it.

Or for those who prefer to be home for Christmas you can fly out shortly afterward.

I had to look these up to see what dates that meant -

Loy Krathong is around November 10

Songkran is around April 15

[Luung]

@ Larry, I can't speak for all nationalities, but my retirement visa has just cost me 250 baht for a letter of verification from my bank of the required, deposited funds (800,000.00 baht in a Thai Bank) 1,900 baht for an 'immigration office' visa extension (they won't do it off the back of a re-entry from another country). It will then cost another 1,900 to change the visa extension into a two month non 'O' visa which can be converted to a retirement visa for a one year duration costing another 1,900 baht & an additional 250 baht for an further verification from the bank (obviously some banks will charge more than others).

Grand total 5,700 baht for a year & it's good bye to inconvenient visa runs!... Fucking good value & I get a bit more interest on the money than I would in the UK!

NB.@ Rossco, I know enough people living reasonable enough lives in England on a lot less money than you consider a Thailand lifestyle should cost?... Do you really need that butler? You're talking about literally a 400 (pound Sterling) per week lifestyle, without pissing it up & whoring!?.. I've got a great lifestyle up here in CMX & it doesn't cost anything like that??.. Still, it was obvious nobody wanted to listen to me... So go on everyone... WASTE YOUR FUCKING MONEY!

I think you might just have frightened the life out of a lot of folk considering the move

[deepthroat]

NB.@ Rossco, I know enough people living reasonable enough lives in England on a lot less money than you consider a Thailand lifestyle should cost?... Do you really need that butler? You're talking about literally a 400 (pound Sterling) per week lifestyle, without pissing it up & whoring!?.. I've got a great lifestyle up here in CMX & it doesn't cost anything like that??.. Still, it was obvious nobody wanted to listen to me... So go on everyone... WASTE YOUR FUCKING MONEY!

I think you might just have frightened the life out of a lot of folk considering the move

I really appreciated both of your perspectives. It's important to recognize that there is no "right" answer to this question, and seeing two different perspectives on it is extremely helpful. It's great to get one persons view, but then when you start to add other differing viewpoints it gives the reader (me) much more information to work with. For some, a butler and a very high end abode would be a bare minimum; for others, a 2nd floor coldwater walk up would be the height of luxury. Seeing differing ends of the spectrum helps me immensely in getting a more thorough understanding of the advantages and pitfalls of living in LOS.

[Rossco]

Lung

Read my preface to my post...

I guessed that as soon as I quoted expenditure there would be some controversy. Everyone's view of expense is unique so I can only quote from personal knowledge. I know many who spend far more than me but these guys are still working (Oil and Gas) whereas I am retired. I also know many who spend far less due to their own finanical situation.

It is down to an individual lifestyle. No I do not have a butler nor a maid but I pay people to take care the Pool (3 visits per week) and the garden.

When I retired I was determined to enjoy myself - you are, after all, a long time dead. I am not going to judge anyone else but only post my personal facts. I would never criticise your lefestyle and expenditure profile. If you read through what I wrote I explain my preferred lifestyle and in so doing explain my expense.

Perhaps it would help if you posted some detail about your expense for comparison.

I know guys here who are proud to live on 20/30 thou baht a month - up to them. We are all different.

Glad you discovered the benefit of a retirement visa. 800,000 in the bank which you can use during the year and 1900 baht per annum fee. The only snag is if you choose (NOTE I said IF) to go the 'proof of pension' route of 65,000 income per month HM Govt (UK) need proof. Our Colonial Cousins (USA) just pay their Emabassy 50 USD and get approval/endorsement.

I hope by providing some level of detail, by specific expense category, it will help people judge and calculate their own personal profile. Some may want to dine out more, persue hobbies like golf, whore every night. My expense reflects my profile and just mine - one size does not fit all.

I think next time I will just stay silent and let FMs figure it out for themselves - just as I had to. The more info that gets posted the better. I would hate to see any fellow man arrive here under a delusion of "I can Live on 5 USD a day". My back packing days are over so I wish to enjoy my life.

I doubt I could live as well in the UK, all inclusive of Council tax/Utilities/gas for car/Insurances/Sat TV/Internet, on 71,000/month. (1,400 GBP). I doubt I could afford a pool - but who would want that in the UK?

Also anybody considering the move here should be aware of Forex rates. I moved here and got 75 baht to a GBP - now it has crept up from 43 to 50. That has a significant bigger impact that retail price rises.

I even managed to get a car loan without a Thai partner - but then that is my secret. Woe betide I should post about that - I am happy as I did manage it so I do not need to hear that it is NOT possible.

[Luung]

Lung

Read my preface to my post...

I guessed that as soon as I quoted expenditure there would be some controversy. Everyone's view of expense is unique so I can only quote from personal knowledge. I know many who spend far more than me but these guys are still working (Oil and Gas) whereas I am retired. I also know many who spend far less due to their own finanical situation.

It is down to an individual lifestyle. No I do not have a butler nor a maid but I pay people to take care the Pool (3 visits per week) and the garden.

When I retired I was determined to enjoy myself - you are, after all, a long time dead. I am not going to judge anyone else but only post my personal facts. I would never criticise your lefestyle and expenditure profile. If you read through what I wrote I explain my preferred lifestyle and in so doing explain my expense.

Perhaps it would help if you posted some detail about your expense for comparison.

I know guys here who are proud to live on 20/30 thou baht a month - up to them. We are all different.

Glad you discovered the benefit of a retirement visa. 800,000 in the bank which you can use during the year and 1900 baht per annum fee. The only snag is if you choose (NOTE I said IF) to go the 'proof of pension' route of 65,000 income per month HM Govt (UK) need proof. Our Colonial Cousins (USA) just pay their Emabassy 50 USD and get approval/endorsement.

I hope by providing some level of detail, by specific expense category, it will help people judge and calculate their own personal profile. Some may want to dine out more, persue hobbies like golf, whore every night. My expense reflects my profile and just mine - one size does not fit all.

I think next time I will just stay silent and let FMs figure it out for themselves - just as I had to. The more info that gets posted the better. I would hate to see any fellow man arrive here under a delusion of "I can Live on 5 USD a day". My back packing days are over so I wish to enjoy my life.

I doubt I could live as well in the UK, all inclusive of Council tax/Utilities/gas for car/Insurances/Sat TV/Internet, on 71,000/month. (1,400 GBP). I doubt I could afford a pool - but who would want that in the UK?

Also anybody considering the move here should be aware of Forex rates. I moved here and got 75 baht to a GBP - now it has crept up from 43 to 50. That has a significant bigger impact that retail price rises.

I even managed to get a car loan without a Thai partner - but then that is my secret. Woe betide I should post about that - I am happy as I did manage it so I do not need to hear that it is NOT possible.

OK, apologies Rossco, sorry for being facetious, maybe I should have read your preface more thoroughly... But that’s one of my problems, you see unfortunately for me I’m only ‘semi retired’ in spite of what the visa says... So consequently I just simply don’t have the time to give you an extensive breakdown... I shouldn’t even be writing this right now, I’ve got work to be getting on with!.. There are loads of threads I’d love to start too, but I just simply haven’t got the time.

And yeah, I know the complete range of expats from ultra rich ‘trust fund babies’ who are paid considerable amounts of money by their families to stay over here & not go home, to guys running medium to large scale international companies, to the guys with the fancy insurance & banking jobs, to the highly paid engineers & off shore workers... And then all the way to down to ‘white monks, hippy drop outs, poor old bastards trying to survive on a British National pension (many of whom have had to go home now) & drunk wasters burning their savings out. So granted, what’s an average lifestyle?

And although I’m not down in the 20/30k per month bracket (I’ve had 5 trips to Pattaya since October last year, so obviously things ain’t that bad) I suppose there would be a very limited interest in my lifestyle or its costings, for that matter, because it’s probably so completely different to the pre packaged, Westernised, convenience that most of the readership will probably aspire to attaining... And that’s fair enough; we’re a much varied bunch.

I came here as a traveller, somebody who had a deep interest in the region, its history & culture... And then I became a sex tourist, I did it completely the wrong way around!.. So ultimately I came here for completely different reasons to most readers. I look at this place differently & interact with it a completely different way to most.

But I will just say this, (in a place like Chiang Mai, at least), make friends with the Thai’s, embrace them & be serious & genuine about it... And they’ll in turn start showing you how to iron out a lot of wrinkles for a much easier, cheaper & far more rewarding lifestyle here.

And for sure too, if the pound regains its value & goes back to at least our 20 yr historic norm, 68 baht per pound Sterling, then your figures won’t look that frightening to many considering a move!.. also the incredible inflation seen in this country is another adverse factor.

And yeah, it pisses me off too that all the fucking Americans have to do is swear on the 5th amendment & they get their fucking retirement visa!

Finally, I appreciated your post, so please don’t throw a ‘shitty’, it just sounded a bit rich for what I would consider an average lifestyle, but then of course, we’re all different... And of course your 400 quid is going a lot further here. A lot of blokes I know back in the UK just haven’t got a lifestyle, period!

Anyway, if the situation doesn’t improve here financially I have a feeling that I may well give Vienchiang a try?.. It’s slowly becoming a vibrant & creative centre with a touch of that swish Parisian style about it; I’ll be able to drink dark beer Lao on the cheap too with locals who have a better outlook than the Thais!

Chiang Mai is becoming so overdeveloped, much of the place is becoming a huge great building site & has I mentioned before the property market is erratically sky rocketing without any real tangible reason to be seen & sellers just pulling unrealistic figures out of the hat, it’s ‘hype’ buying on mass which is incredibly dangerous!

[Hefe]

Yeah, we all have different standards about this. My attitude is if I am going halfway around the world for respite, I want a bit of lux, as in more than I would be able to sustain at home. That's why I'm hanging on for a few more years...... Yeah, I realize I'll never get this time back but that's the tradeoff.

Do any of you ever check out that blog from the guy who is an heir to the Wonder Bread fortune & who lives in Bangkok? We should all be so lucky!

[pdogg]

Yeah, we all have different standards about this. My attitude is if I am going halfway around the world for respite, I want a bit of lux, as in more than I would be able to sustain at home. That's why I'm hanging on for a few more years...... Yeah, I realize I'll never get this time back but that's the tradeoff.

Do any of you ever check out that blog from the guy who is an heir to the Wonder Bread fortune & who lives in Bangkok? We should all be so lucky!

You have a link Hefe?

It's important to have housing that works for you.

For many guys speedy wifi is extremely important.

If living with someone, having a living room helps so evryone has enough space.

Some guys want a pool.

And of course location, location, location.

[Hefe]

Here's his site: http://www.corkscrew-balloon.com/findex.html

.... & here is the ladyboy elephant polo team he sponsored for a few years in the past, "The Screwless Tuskers" I assumed that this would be pretty well known by you guys in country, perhaps not? http://www.corkscrew-balloon.com/polo/index.html

[deepthroat]

[Luung]

Again, I love the different perspectives. Here's an article I found that gives yet another. Focused mostly on teaching jobs in LOS but some interesting financial info:

That was a really good article Deepthroat, with a lot of 'good sense' statements made!

Just a couple of points, firstly, there are a small number of these 60K per month teaching gigs at some of the bigger International schools & the Consulates, but that's a hell of a salary for up in this part of the world... So same as the West, if somebody's going to give you 'that' big salary (which it really is up here), then they're also going to want to own you!.. You won't be seeing much daylight, that's for sure, which kind of defeats the object of being here, JMHO?

BTW, it's still 100 Pound Sterling per week short of Rossco's figures, short 25%

Secondly, as much as I'm an advocate of keeping your costs down & hopefully maybe finding a cheaper way to do things, I myself don't know how these guys exist on theses 20/30K per month incomes in BKK or Pattya or any of the Islands either, for that matter... Existing will be all that their doing... And life isn't life if it's only existance/survival!

And one point I keep making... And I'll make it again & again, because I think it's something that expats & prospective expats alike really want to switch themselves off from hearing... Inflation is rampant here & prices are still rising, as I write this even!... And unless their economy collapses it's going to keep going up to, which doesn't bother the rich Chinese Thais one little bit, they've got more money than we have & they're all for the gap between rich & poor widening, which it currently is, at a frightening rate!

You won't buy an egg under 7 baht where I live, that's roughly 16 pence English!!!

A whole 'small' roast chicken will cost you 105 Baht (2.15 Pound Sterling) in Tesco Lotus. Last time I was home they were 1.00 Pound Sterling in Safeways!... And that's after they've been shipped over 'usually' from Thailand to the UK!!!!

Mark my words, that if something doesn't go seriously wrong for the Thais & their growth remains the same with China keeping them under their wing, then in about 10 years from now the cost of living will be about the same as the UK!

Finally, I only responded to this because it's you Deepthroat, I still feel that I'm fucking poles apart from virtually every other fucking FM's reading this thread & that I might as well be talking/writing to a fucking brick wall!... Which is fine by me, they can all go & enjoy white socks & sandles'ville'

[DownLoLarry]

I still feel that I'm fucking poles apart from virtually every other fucking FM's reading this thread & that I might as well be talking/writing to a fucking brick wall!...

Think u and me are on the same wave legnth Uncle!

However, I have my doubts that upcountry is much cheaper than Pattaya.

In Pattaya, nice rooms iclucing a pool and free wifi can be had for as low as 10K a month. Even if it's a bit cheaper upcountry for a comparable room, how much cheaper can it be?

If one wants more space furnished houses can be had in the Village on 3rd Road for not all that much more.

I can eat out 24/7 in Patts for 30 baht. Again how much cheaper can it be?

Pattaya, no need for a motobike, one can walk or tkae the baht bus for 10 baht.

Drinking, large Changs can be had a Coffee and Beer, the joint where we met the first time for 45 baht.

I think what makes Patts expensive is temptation. Guys are visiting and it's easy to start paying tourist prices for food and drink. If one can avoid temptation and hang with expats then Patts is not an expensive place.

[williethepimp]

Lung -youre not poles apart from me....i recently spent 5 months in Los and it cost approx £7,500 pounds sterling......and I could have done it for a lot less if I had to,but as you say,if you're just "surviving",that ain't living.I spent a lot of the time in issan,and its a lot cheaper there.Larry is right about pattaya also-its the temptation there that costs the big bucks.I think if I were to live in Pattaya ,I would have to have a regular non-p4p girlfriend,otherwise the cost of whoring would run away with my money.

[deepthroat]

I think if I were to live in Pattaya ,I would have to have a regular non-p4p girlfriend,otherwise the cost of whoring would run away with my money.

I've heard stories from other guys that if you live in LOS, it's pretty easy to get into a regular rhythm of low cost/no cost bedwarmers. Is that true? The concept seems to be that you eventually let some of your favorites know that they're welcome to sleep in a nice comfy clean place with you in return for a little conjugal relation. First come first served, gotta call first to make sure I'm alone, blah blah blah. Supposedly the girls will come flocking around for an opportunity to sleep with someone who treats them well and has a nice place and comfy bed, and a blowjob or fuck is seen as a worthy trade for such luxury.

Any truth to the idea?

[pdogg]

Any truth to the idea?

I know guys who have had sleep overs with ladyboys for free, 100 baht, or a couple of mangos and motobike fare.

[Luung]

OK, sorry lads, that was some pretty clumsy comments that I made & I would most definitely say that us three, at least, are very much on the same level, of that I'm completely sure & overall we're after (and do get) the same sort of 'vibe'/'kick' from this place too... But I wouldn't say that any of us three are the norm, most blokes couldn't do it, especially the unseasoned, enough said on that part of the topic I hope.

Anyway, I think this thread could have been more appropriately titled, 'How much do certain specific types of lifestyles in Thailand cost'?.. I'd much rather talk about the more interesting, different, yet achievable lifestyles on offer myself.

Also, has the cleverest businessman I've ever met once said to me, "For fucks sake stop looking at poxy figures all the time, look at the fucking lifestyle you're capable of getting & it's virtually for free, concentrate on that!.. And then look at how much you've got left over at the end of the month & use it to build, then you can go again my son"!.. I get most of my lifestyle through means other than money... MONEY IS ONLY PART 0F MY EQUATION!!!.. I know it sounds clichéd, but I duck & dive, I barter, I trade, I build for myself & I always try to build reserves up, every time I strike I make sure I'm on a double whammy, I try to double up on practically every move I make & I've built circles of people around me who enrich & bolster up my lifestyle & give it a real 'quantifiable' quality & I do the same back in return. You see there's a really cool 'favours' system in place up here, if I need Palm Trees, for instance, I've got them, if I want labor 'Thai or Falang' I've got it & so on.

Lung -youre not poles apart from me....i recently spent 5 months in Los and it cost approx £7,500 pounds sterling......and I could have done it for a lot less if I had to,but as you say,if you're just "surviving",that ain't living.I spent a lot of the time in issan,and its a lot cheaper there.Larry is right about pattaya also-its the temptation there that costs the big bucks.I think if I were to live in Pattaya ,I would have to have a regular non-p4p girlfriend,otherwise the cost of whoring would run away with my money.

I fully concur, you've given my answer for me mate! Glad you got to your computer before I got to mine... However, although you said you could have done it cheaper you're still talking about a 1,500.00 pound Sterling/75,000 baht per month lifstyle, you've still been doing 350 pounds Sterling per week, but of course your digs was coming out of that. You should of been able to have an absolute ball on that ammount.

@PDogg, I did think twice when I plonked Pattaya in with the more expensive locations, but just as Willy & yourself have said... It's the temptation in Pattaya which is so 'money burningly' hard to resist & that's what's going to get me & I fear most others too (I mentioned that earlier in this thread). I also think that you've got to take into account the fact that you're NOT looking at Pattaya through a single mans eyes! Yes, a life in Pattaya on the cheap is achievable, but I'm not contradicting myself because in a bachelor's situation most of us couldn't do it!.. I can quite happily stay in, save money & enjoy my home & a more relaxing lifestyle in CMX, but I'm most definitely not in that mind set in Pattaya! We all react differently in different environments!

In addition, I'm with you all the way on food & drink etc, I'm 35/40 baht for 'good' Thai meals & I'm all for drinking sets, hitting the cheaper ex-pat bars & even spending time in Lao Kaow bars if I'm not on the pull & I'd meet up again in Coffee & Beer any time mate, I even ended up staying there if you remember (it's cracking value for money)! In fact I'll shortly get around to posting some photos of some really good places to eat quality food in Patts real cheap!.. And coffee & beer is most defintely worth a plug, this time of year you can get a real quality, large, tastefully appointed, hardwood room with cable & wifi 'downstairs' for 500 baht per night!.. and what's more they sell 'dark beer Lao', so you're drinking quaulity piss cheap too!!!

Look, I can go down to literally living on thin air & dog biscuits if I want to & I feel a great sense of accomplishment & take great pride in doing it too, I'm a 'sewer rat' at heart & a first class bottom feeder when I want to be, again, has mentioned earlier on another thread... But I also like to have the flexibility to go out & be a rascal when I want, wear fancy clothes, treat the girls, all that kind of stuff & then also be able to jump on a plane whenever I want too... And sometimes I go completely off the rails & start spunking money up the wall faster than most tourists can!.. And that's only going to happen even more often than it already does if I lived in Pattaya!

I've done Pattaya on the cheap loads of times, but for limited periods of two months at the most, it's personally difficult for me to sustain longer periods being 'single, single'.

@Deepthroat... Yes... And that's how my friendship with Nok started quite a few years ago now when she was a skinny kid, but these type of deals do more often than not become very problematic. I also fear it's a little bit harder now, because the girls need money more than ever.

Wherever you are, you've always got to take into consideration the 'TIT' factor!.. Full time low budgets are fine until something goes wrong, like just right now for instance... OK, I'm currently living a different lifestyle & on a higher type of budget than we've been currently talking about, but I've got to buy a new phone (LED's just gone), upgrade both my desktop & laptop (current client needs) without earning any more money, I've just been hit with 2 rather nasty different sets of hospital bills, the car's got electrical problems & I know I need British parts, not the Chinese shit you get over here, the top end of my motorbike engine has started knocking, I need duplicate motor bike & car licenses (fucking Pattaya police have got the originals) & they want letters from the consulate blah. blah, blah, the price of dope has just been jacked right up through the fucking ceiling (three main outlets in CMX busted this week)! And I've had to have a fucking great bulk buy because of it & I'm just in the process of building a fancy canopy set-up for the car too, because the rains have been so bad here... It keeps going on & it has to be paid or covered for.

Can I go now please :rolleyes:

Edited 10-6-11, edits in red

[Luung]

Unc,What is the average rent one can expect to pay for a new two bedroom condo with AC, internet, and security in a safe neigbourhood close to the city core in Chiang Mai?

What he said, Lung. :mellow:

OK lads, I've done a little bit more asking around & I'll stick with 4/6,000,000.00 (with 4,000,000.00 being the more common sense end of the range), for a tasteful, well enough appointed, new build, 2 bed condo, roughly 90-120 sq mtr, close enough to the centre of Chiang Mai & it's amenities, whilst still maintaining some sort green outlook.

Apart from your other requirements Sam, I'd also expect a pool too at that sort of prices.