Norway

[pdogg]

Why didn't he just kill himself instead. 89 dead. RIP

A gunman stalked youths at an island summer camp for young members of the governing party after explosions in Oslo hit government buildings. The police seized a man officials described as a right-wing extremist in connection with both attacks.

[Lefty]

Right wing white supremacist Christian, not too much different than those Tea Party Ass Holes we got in the USA now.

[Jimslim]

Right wing white supremacist Christian,

Yeh you couldn't think of a worse mix than that , what a scumbag .

[bumblebee]

Shocking news indeed. Sounds like one of the worse horror movies one could imagine. Trapped on a tiny island for 2 hours while a maniac guns down all around him, knowing there is no escape, truly horrific. Not forgetting the bomb blast earlier also.

[Lefty]

Yeh you couldn't think of a worse mix than that , what a scumbag .

seems whenever some mental case goes off on a killing spree, there is always his version of God speaking to him, telling him why he is justified in doing it.

I'll bet no one here can name any murdering psycho or terrorist who claims he did it in the name of atheism.

Why are psychopaths always strongly religious?

[KenW]

Why are psychopaths always strongly religious?

Because they know The One Way to Truth.

[grakallen]

This is really a terrible terror act by a crazy person.

What he did was the following:

1) Explode a huge bomb destroying two government building, but since it was after business hours and during the summer holiday luckily only 8 dead (could be more since it was a big bomb and they are still searching)

2) After the first bomb he travelled a bit outside Oslo to an island where about 7000 children (11+ years) had a summer camp. This camp was for the Labour partys youth and the terrorist was dressed as a police and since this was about 2 hours after the first bomb he said he was coming to help and protect them. He called the children to him and started shooting killing 68 people and serious wounded many many others. This went on for about 1.5 hours before the SWAT team arrived and the terrorist surrendered without any shooting. I can't understand the trauma these people have been through.

The terrorist has also published a 1500 pages manifest to explain himself. He claim he has planned this for many years and in his manifest he gives a very detailed diary on how he planned and went through with this terrible act.

I read above some say he was a "Right wing white supremacist Christian" which is not correct. Based on the information so far he wasn't very religious at all. And he was not a racist, at least not in the traditional way. This guy hates Islam and think Islam poisons the European society and it will destroy the European culture/civilization if the Islam immigration does not stop. He says the current(and past government) in Norway is responsible for this and on Friday they had to pay the price. Not that his reasons is very important, but it is just not correct to call him a fanatic religious or a racist

In my opinion this man is crazy, but still it is frightening to see one man be able to perform such awful acts of terror. Reports say he is very calm during police interrogations and clearly what is going on is part of what he planned all along. He now wants to be a martyr and a symbol for his beliefs and think within 60-70 years his beliefs will be accepted in society.

My deepest condolence to those affected and the people of Norway.

[Lefty]

This is really a terrible terror act by a crazy person.

What he did was the following:

1) Explode a huge bomb destroying two government building, but since it was after business hours and during the summer holiday luckily only 8 dead (could be more since it was a big bomb and they are still searching)

2) After the first bomb he travelled a bit outside Oslo to an island where about 7000 children (11+ years) had a summer camp. This camp was for the Labour partys youth and the terrorist was dressed as a police and since this was about 2 hours after the first bomb he said he was coming to help and protect them. He called the children to him and started shooting killing 68 people and serious wounded many many others. This went on for about 1.5 hours before the SWAT team arrived and the terrorist surrendered without any shooting. I can't understand the trauma these people have been through.

The terrorist has also published a 1500 pages manifest to explain himself. He claim he has planned this for many years and in his manifest he gives a very detailed diary on how he planned and went through with this terrible act.

I read above some say he was a "Right wing white supremacist Christian" which is not correct. Based on the information so far he wasn't very religious at all. And he was not a racist, at least not in the traditional way. This guy hates Islam and think Islam poisons the European society and it will destroy the European culture/civilization if the Islam immigration does not stop. He says the current(and past government) in Norway is responsible for this and on Friday they had to pay the price. Not that his reasons is very important, but it is just not correct to call him a fanatic religious or a racist

In my opinion this man is crazy, but still it is frightening to see one man be able to perform such awful acts of terror. Reports say he is very calm during police interrogations and clearly what is going on is part of what he planned all along. He now wants to be a martyr and a symbol for his beliefs and think within 60-70 years his beliefs will be accepted in society.

My deepest condolence to those affected and the people of Norway.

His attitude toward Muslims, who are predominately Arab, racially speaking, damned sure makes him a racist.

On his own Facebook page he described himself as 'conservative' and 'Christian'.

He was a member of a Swedish Neo Nazi forum. Neo Nazis are White Supremacists.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/07/201172316756663534.html

You care to share where you got your info, rather than just making unsupported proclamations? I am the one who said he is a "Right wing white supremacist Christian". So, if you are going to tell me I am wrong, you better have something to support your claim other than just your say so. Which is what I have done, if you care to check the link.

[grakallen]

Lefty, how do you support your claim he was a "Right wing white supremacist Christian"? I do not really care what kind of views this person has but after following all news from the Scandinavian countries (I understand Norwegian) he is neither a typical racist or a fanatic Christian. Hating Islam does not in equal hating arabs, at least not according to this terrorist. About 1.5 billion people are muslims and only 50% are arabs. The only correct statement you made (based on official and his own info) is this guy is "right wing", he was active on a website called document.no where he had moderate right wing opinions, but nothing extreme that caught the eye of the people monitoring the net for right wing extremists.

A couple of hours before his killing spree he published a video and a 1500+ page manifest, which explains pretty much everything in detail including how he got the chemicals to how he created his bomb. He also explains who his target was and what he thinks will happen after the terrorist attacks. I suggest you google "2083 – A European Declaration of Independence" and read first hand what this crazy guy says. His motivs is to attach the Norwegian Labour party since they have let Islam into Norway for many years, and by killing the Labour party youth he thinks he can scare they away from political involvement. This is also stated in the Norwegian court verdict where he is sentenced to 8 weeks of prison (4 in total isolation) while the investigation continues. This is the verdict in Norwegian from the official court:

http://www.domstol.no/upload/OBYR/Internett/Nyheter/Fengslingskjennelsen.pdf

Basically what it says is (official verdict first, then my translation):

----

Målet med attentatene var å ”gi et kraftig signal” til folket. Siktede ønsker å påføre

Arbeiderpartiet ”størst mulig tap” slik at dette for fremtiden ville ”strupe nye rekruttering”.

Siktede forklarte at Arbeiderpartiet har sveket landet og folket og prisen for forræderiet fikk

de betalt for i går.

”Operasjonen var ikke å drepe flest mulig, men å gi et kraftig signal som ikke kan misforstås.

Om at så lenge Arbeiderpartiet kjører den ideologiske linjen sin og fortsetter å dekonstruere

norsk kultur og masseimportere muslimer så må de ta ansvaret for dette forræderiet og

enhver person med samvittighet kan ikke landet sitt bli kolonisert av muslimer”.

-----

The goal with the terror act was to "give a strong signal" to the people. The accused wanted to inflict "as big as possible damage" to the Labour party so they in the future will "have limited new followers". The accused said the Labour party has betrayed the country and they payed the price last Friday.

"The goal was not to kill as many as possible, but to give a strong signal that can not be misunderstood. As long as the Labour party continues their ideology do de-construct Norwegian culture and mass-import muslims they have to take the responsibility for their treason, and any person with a conscience can not let their country be colonized by muslims."

This guy spend 5 minutes in court (before the judge cut him off) reading from his manifest about his motivs (as stated above). As far as I know there is no claims that whites are superior to asians, blacks or arabs. He hardly also mentions his Christian beliefs in his manifest (I have not read it all, but this is the feedback from people who have read it). I suggest you either get better sources (not Fox News) or actually follow the english speaking press-conferences from the Norwegian police/government.

As a fellow scandinavian I'm extremely disgusted and sad about this news, but it upsets me (in extremely much smaller way) when people try to use this tragedy to make easy arguments about other groups they dislike. I do not care at all for racists or fanatic Christians, but the truth is this guy (so far) does not seem to fit in that category.

A sad example of how wrong some of you guys get this information is like this Fox News guys radio program where he compared the children of the camp to Hitlerjugend.

I don't know how ignorant some people can be, but this is totally crazy.

The terrorist used to be a member of Fremskrittspartiet which is probably something between the Deomcrats and the Republicans, and in no way a extreme political party.

The bottom line here is this probably is a crazy person (even his lawyer says so) and god knows how many delusions he had, but so far no solid proof about "white supremacy" nor "fanatic Christian"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14292212 <-- his lawyer says he is insane

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14275981 <-- his mental state

This is not the time for spewing out hate to other groups (which probably is not related to this at all). I'm happy to see 99% of the comments from Norway is about mourning, love and support for each other, and not big speeches about revenge and hate. From all parties they do no focus on we need 10x more police, more surveillance, more government control, but all say this terrible act will result in even more democracy even more open dialog. I think the Norwegian government have been a bit naive in a the way they protected their government buildings, but random acts of terror like the shooting is impossible to avoid. If a crazy person with the right motivation and equipment wants to kill innocent people at a school or a shopping mall it is more or less impossible to avoid some casualties no matter how much law enforcement you throw at society.

Please do not take my rant as a defense for this lunatic terrorist, I hope he will suffer every day for the rest of his life! I have no whatsoever sympathy for "Right wing white supremacist Christian" and I have never vote for "Labour parties", but it upsets me when "ignorant" people throw out comments that have no other purpose than spreading hate without proper understanding of the situation. It would be equally stupid to generalize about all evil muslims if this was a muslim terrorist like saying "all muslims are not terrorists, but all terrorists are muslims". Just look to Spain and England.

[williethepimp]

Islam is the biggest threat western civilisation faces,its a backward medieval religion whose aim is to proselytize the west until we are all muslim........i will debate that with anyone....I won't go and kill over 70 people to make my case.(killing a few politicians wouldn't be a bad idea tho)

[Lefty]

Islam is the biggest threat western civilisation faces,its a backward medieval religion whose aim is to proselytize the west until we are all muslim........i will debate that with anyone....I won't go and kill over 70 people to make my case.(killing a few politicians wouldn't be a bad idea tho)

I've no use for most Muslims. No use for most Christians either. All religions are for the weak minded.

[Lefty]

Lefty, how do you support your claim he was a "Right wing white supremacist Christian"?

I support it by how he self identifies and the organizations or groups he aligns himself with.

The link I posted, if you cared to read it, supported my claim.

As for that asshat Glenn Beck, he has a minority following in the USA, but he lost his show on Fox and any clear headed and free thinking person would not give an ounce of credence to 98% of the drivel that spews from his mouth.

[grakallen]

Lefty, I see no point in arguing about this, but those early reports just does not seem correct. At least in Norwegian media there are no longer people believing this is religious or racist motivated. This is based on what he says in his 1500 page manifest, what he says in court/to police and what he has expressed before the terror act.

[Jimslim]

Actually Lefty is 100% correct how you can say his attack is not racially motivated is beyond me .

The guy is a neo Nazi with links to most of the far right in Europe .

He attacked the Labour movement because along with his hate filled racism he imagines some Marxist plot to make a multi cultural Norway .

First on the agenda for Hitler was the organized Labour movement in Germany because he understood they were the only people with the power to stop him .

[grakallen]

It is beyond me how you can claim hating Islam is the same as being a racist. You find muslims of all races. Islam is not only "arab people" (only 20% of muslims live in Middle-East/North Africa). This guy only killed his own people, how can that make him a racist?

My understanding of this guy was he think Islam will take over Europe and destroy the Western culture. In his sick twisted mind he think killing the people in charge (Labor party has been mostly in charge in Norway the last 50 years) will scare them to stop the immigration of muslims.

From his own manifest (what he spent years creating) and also what he read from in court, where he talks about who can join his "team":

----

Future Overseer leadership must consider and decide whether awarding certain commendations to other individuals than Justiciar Knights might be

beneficial to the cause.

There are a minimum of requirements that must apply for the candidate:

The candidate must acknowledge the PCCTS, Knights Templar as a just liberation movement working for the interests of all Europeans and must agree with at least all non-violent principles of the PCCTS.

The candidate must oppose all hate-ideologies; communism, cultural Marxism/multiculturalism, Islam and national socialism.

The candidate must not be a Nazi-sympathiser or support white supremacy ideologies as those are considered hate ideologies.

If it is revealed, in retrospect, that an individual propagate or defend hate ideologies, the commendations given to that individual will be nullified and the individuals name will be deleted from the registry.

A candidate of certain civilian commendations may belong to any denomination of Christendom and can also be a Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, agnostic and atheist.

----

I dislike racism as much as the next guy, but based on what I've read about this terrorist it is not racially motivated. He think Islam will poison any society and do not want to mix it with his own.

This guy seems to be out of touch with reality and does not fit into the standard labels we have for the different right wing extremists. So far I found no proof of him being motivated by hate for a race or he acted upon fanatic Christian beliefs.

[williethepimp]

It is beyond me how you can claim hating Islam is the same as being a racist. You find muslims of all races. Islam is not only "arab people" (only 20% of muslims live in Middle-East/North Africa). This guy only killed his own people, how can that make him a racist?

My understanding of this guy was he think Islam will take over Europe and destroy the Western culture. In his sick twisted mind he think killing the people in charge (Labor party has been mostly in charge in Norway the last 50 years) will scare them to stop the immigration of muslims.

From his own manifest (what he spent years creating) and also what he read from in court, where he talks about who can join his "team":

----

Future Overseer leadership must consider and decide whether awarding certain commendations to other individuals than Justiciar Knights might be

beneficial to the cause.

There are a minimum of requirements that must apply for the candidate:

The candidate must acknowledge the PCCTS, Knights Templar as a just liberation movement working for the interests of all Europeans and must agree with at least all non-violent principles of the PCCTS.

The candidate must oppose all hate-ideologies; communism, cultural Marxism/multiculturalism, Islam and national socialism.

The candidate must not be a Nazi-sympathiser or support white supremacy ideologies as those are considered hate ideologies.

If it is revealed, in retrospect, that an individual propagate or defend hate ideologies, the commendations given to that individual will be nullified and the individuals name will be deleted from the registry.

A candidate of certain civilian commendations may belong to any denomination of Christendom and can also be a Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, agnostic and atheist.

----

I dislike racism as much as the next guy, but based on what I've read about this terrorist it is not racially motivated. He think Islam will poison any society and do not want to mix it with his own.

This guy seems to be out of touch with reality and does not fit into the standard labels we have for the different right wing extremists. So far I found no proof of him being motivated by hate for a race or he acted upon fanatic Christian beliefs.

interesting post,it doesnt look like a racist ideology he's espousing,more of an islamaphobic cause....Islam WILL and does poison any society...You can't compare Christianity with Islam Lefty,fundamentalist Christians want to ban condoms-not blow us all up!

Just an afterthought,most Americans have no/little contact with fundamentalist Muslims,therefore they treat Islam as just another Religion, a belief in which is protected by the constitution etc etc.....ask any of us who live in the UK our take on Islam,especially fundamentalist Islam ,and you'll surely get a stronger reaction.

[Lefty]

interesting post,it doesnt look like a racist ideology he's espousing,more of an islamaphobic cause....Islam WILL and does poison any society...You can't compare Christianity with Islam Lefty,fundamentalist Christians want to ban condoms-not blow us all up!

Just an afterthought,most Americans have no/little contact with fundamentalist Muslims,therefore they treat Islam as just another Religion, a belief in which is protected by the constitution etc etc.....ask any of us who live in the UK our take on Islam,especially fundamentalist Islam ,and you'll surely get a stronger reaction.

The people who bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors who perform abortions are fundamentalist Christians. That is also a form of terrorism.

[williethepimp]

The people who bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors who perform abortions are fundamentalist Christians. That is also a form of terrorism.

Those few occasions have indeed occurred Lefty,and thankfully those fundamentalist Christians are very few and far between.....Fundamentalist muslims have been mass murdering for decades now....recently,theyve startted strapping bombs onto retarded children and blowing them up by remote control,only last week they hung an 8 year old boy because he was the son of a policeman....You can't compare the two ,surely,or say each carry an equal threat.Islam is a medievel Religion ,it needs opposing ,banning even.

[Lefty]

Those few occasions have indeed occurred Lefty,and thankfully those fundamentalist Christians are very few and far between.....Fundamentalist muslims have been mass murdering for decades now....recently,theyve startted strapping bombs onto retarded children and blowing them up by remote control,only last week they hung an 8 year old boy because he was the son of a policeman....You can't compare the two ,surely,or say each carry an equal threat.Islam is a medievel Religion ,it needs opposing ,banning even.

The Catholics had their Crusades mostly in the 11th-13th centuries, up to the 15th. Mostly sanctioned by the pope and carried out against Muslims and Orthodox Christians. The Muslims are having their version of the Crusades in modern times.

What we see first hand today, yes it is more Muslims, but looking at it throughout history, they are all bad. All religious extremists of any religion, are evil. Not all Muslims are bad, nor are all Christians. Weak minded maybe, but not bad.

[williethepimp]

The Catholics had their Crusades mostly in the 11th-13th centuries, up to the 15th. Mostly sanctioned by the pope and carried out against Muslims and Orthodox Christians. The Muslims are having their version of the Crusades in modern times.

What we see first hand today, yes it is more Muslims, but looking at it throughout history, they are all bad. All religious extremists of any religion, are evil. Not all Muslims are bad, nor are all Christians. Weak minded maybe, but not bad.

It wasn't catholics who had the crusades,it was Christians,the Christian church hadn't split in two then,not for another 300 years......Christians in the middle ages acted in a medieval manner,but theyve moved on since then,Christians no longer burn "witches"or commit pogroms........Islam has retained its medieval mindset and therefore had no place in modern western society.