definitions for a novice

[Pulci Gorgon]

Here's how I will proceed. I will provide some definitions that a novice may not be familiar with. Members are encouraged to add definitions they deem helpful for beginners. If anyone disagrees with a definition or if a controversy arises, the posts will be split into another discussion, and only the definitions that reach a consensus after deliberation will be retained.

[Pulci Gorgon]

You might be surprised but here is my first definition :

Freelancers : many ladyboys work in freelance and many mongers forget about this fact. You can find freelancers in the streets, in Thaifriendly, using Wechat or any other mean. Ladyboys who don't freelance either work for escort agencies (very expe,sive), massage shops or bars. 

ST : short time. The first time I read about ST, that was supposed to last 1 hour and half. Since then, possibly due to hidden inflation, it has become less than 1 hour, possibly even shorter.

LT : long time. Long time refers to the duration spent with a ladyboy, longer than a short time (ST). It is typically intended to last until the end of the night or even for 24 hours. While "long time" arrangements used to be more prevalent in the past, they have become less common now, largely due to the high prices for customers. When bargaining for a LT, it is crucial to clarify and ensure there are no misunderstandings regarding the duration you expect the ladyboy to spend with you.

In addition to ST/LT, and in order to make sure of your budget you need to know more about your expenses. 

ST room : near bars or even in a bar, you can rent a room for a ST to have sex with a ladyboy. I think I will post more details on ST rooms later. 

Drinks : it may sound stupid but if you enter a bar to hook up a ladyboy, the first thing you are supposed to do is to order a drink. 

LD : lady's drink : before a ladyboy is allowed to spend time stting with you and talking of whatever subject you feel like, you must pay her for a LD. LDs are usually more expensive and you will be requested to pay for another one after a while. This is how ladyboys get commissioned. In some bars, ladyboys sometimes ask for another drink before you can conclude for a ST. Either they don't want to go with a custmer, or they want higher commissions but it displays a lack of tact on their part. 
on the other hand, if you spend too long a time chatting with a ladyboy, the mamasan will remind you she can't stay sitting with you unless you get another LD. 

BF : the bar fine. Initially, a BF is an amount of money paid to the bar to compensate the ladyboy's wage while she's out with you in your hotel or in a ST room. The BF had become a real system of royalties to increase bars profits. I don't know what's the amount of a fair price for a BF but some bars used to ask ladyboys to make 2 or 3 BF that would cover their evening's wage each. If you have been in some sexy clubs in Europe,they used to ask you to pay for "the champagne" to bring a girl back to your hotel. The BF is someting similar. 

The definitions above may appear naive to most mongers, but a beginner had rather know and understand them before embarking on the adventure. If you want to hook up a ladyboy in a bar, you will pay at least a drink or more, a LD or more, a BF a ST and in some cases a ST room. Now you can figure out your budget. 

Girlfriendly or ladyboyfriendly hotels : a legend was spread on the internet that only a few hotels would accept you to invite a ladyboy to your room and some guys tried to create websites to compete with booking.com (or other booking services) that were supposed to guarantee you book a ladyboy friendly hotel. In Thailand, 99.9 % of hotels are ladyboy (or girl) friendly. You feel stressed when checking in that they will deny access to the ladyboy you found in the neighbourhood. You will be surprised to notice that the night reception is held by a ladyboy who's too old or not pretty enough to go with customers, but she will like you as a ladyboylover. 
 

[Pulci Gorgon]

18 hours ago, Soju said:

LD: This category is highly dependent on the bar and the girl. Some bars push LDs and some girls do the hard sell.  Other places are more laid back and give the customer some space.  I do think beginners need to realize that this is a job for the girls and LDs are an important source of income. That said, since you are just doing the definitions at this stage PG maybe it's just best to say it's the commission girls receive to sit and talk with you.

Of course, I should have said that a LD includes afee for the lady (GG or ladyboy) to take care of the customer. I had posted "this is how ladyboys get commissionned" since they are not supposed to be whores selling their flesh in a shop, ST/LT are supposed (at least to maintain the appearance, at least from a legal perspective) extras. However, from my experience LDs sometimes allowed me no time just to get to know a ladyboy. Either I have 1 minuite or so to ask her for her price and the BF price, or I must add more money as in a coin pusher machine. 

I think it's better for a newbie to know all the elements of an evening budget rather letting the first bar empty his pocket. A BM who seem to be a newbie recently criticized this addition of prices and services. Newbies had rather know. Either they don't mind and that's very well or they do but instead of calling them cheap charlies just because they can't afford the high price, I believe it is necessary to explain them the pricing structures, or even show them alternative solutions. This addition of prices on the bill was not bothersome when prices were low, but it becomes an inconvenience for newcomers in the face of an almost exponential increase in prices (one year, just the ST price would be as high as the ST price + the BF price 2 years earlier), bar management and ladyboys sometimes shoot themselves in the foot). 

 

18 hours ago, Soju said:

ST: After you "unload" the deal is done... regardless of the time.
 

1 hour and half became one hour, then one hour became a quicky. This is another way of creating inflation (like packs of crisps becoming smaller).  I didn't even mentioned ST hotels closing time : a ladyboy id OK to go with a customer to a ST hotel but the customer doesn't know that the hotel will close at 11 PM, and it's already 10:15 or so. After spending time to talk a receptionist and wasting more time in useless explainations, the customer has only half an hour to do the deed. 

[Pdoggg]

3 hours ago, Soju said:

I enjoy having a few drinks with a lady but girls who "pound back" drinks or ask for another drink while they still have one half full is too much. My advice to a newcomer is simple... move on to another bar.

Yup.  Actually if there is anything that I don't like about the vibe a reset is in order and start fresh in another bar.

3 hours ago, Soju said:

IMO the purpose of a ST is to get my rocks off... if it's 15 minutes or 1 hour the result is the same. Of course, the older I get, 15 minutes is well in the past  

Additionally, I think taking a girl back to your hotel room can have an affect on a ST.  They can't rush back downstairs for another customer and some like to get out of the bar for a bit... offering a lady a drink in your room and having a little chat can certainly add to the quality of a ST.

Yes, having a drink in your room is a good idea.   Much better than rushing into bed IMO.

After she cums she is either ready to leave or sometimes sleep.  Understandable as I'm the same way.  I usually want them out as quickly as possible but sometimes nice if they stay over.

[Pulci Gorgon]

Ring the bell : in Thai bar, if you ring the bell, this means that you offer everyone a drink. 
Have a look at this thread and at this post. 

Scams : Thailand is not a dangerous place but getting involved with  girls or ladyboys and having a GFE can lead to tricky situations. Cunning and unscrupulous people know how manipulate a disoriented tourist. However, the worst scams are often orchestrated by fellow foreigners (farangs). Have a look at this thread. 
Just think it's not a big deal to overpay for a ladyboy whose quality of service was disappointing. If you want to know more about scams, make a search in youtube. hundreds of videos explain scams. Just remember the best way to avoid them is to stay away from people you don't know who try to take control of your holiday or your money during your trip. 

Wingman : needless to define a wingman. The word probably comes from a wingman in a squadron but it's also used in business as a friend who will support you when trying to meet possible partners. I saw such offers in other forums and I know a few members used the services of a wingman. I had one when I first traveled to Asia. My company's boss had wanted me to travel with another department manager while prospecting for partners in Taiwan. The guy was older and taught me how to get rid of parasites who claimed to be able to act as intermediaries with a potential partner but had no idea where to  find one. 
Of course, most of those who propose to be your wingman live in Pattaya, have posted several posts in a forum every day for years and know bars and ladyboys. But are you sure they will orientate you at your own advantage ? Don't forget that scams also come from farangs. 

[Pulci Gorgon]

Following the thread's discussion on the meaning, here's a definition for the expression cheap charlie. 

The term "Cheap Charlie" originated from American soldiers during the Vietnam War, playfully describing fellow soldiers who were frugal with spending during their rest and recuperation (R&R) periods in Southeast Asia.  Over time, the term extended beyond the military context and was adopted in tourism and nightlife. Its usage can be both playful and derogatory, depending on whether it's used to tease someone for budget-consciousness or to mock excessive stinginess. This term has globalized, fostering community among travelers, but cultural sensitivity is important in its usage.

I saw the expression used in a website to describe the monger who refuses to pay for lady's drinks in Bangkok bars.
I also saw it used by a bar owner (the so called Jimbo is a former bar owner now) to belittle the words of customers who criticized the quality of his ladyboys, his arrogance, and his contempt for customers.
I have also seen it used on Thaiflirting by a ladyboy, ex bar girl retired in Issan. The ladyboy  was asking for money to be sent her by WU and posted the "cheap charlie" insult to discredit those who refused in the eyes of other ladyboys. I managed to get her banned from Thaiflirting by the site's admin.

Thai advertisers also use the term "Cheap Charlie" to attract customers who are budget-conscious. If a friend playfully refers to you as a cheap charlie, it usually suggests they've noticed your thrifty habits on occasion. However, if a foreigner, whether Thai or farang, whom you don't have a strong connection with, labels you as a cheap charlie, it should trigger an alarmin your mind. This could indicate an attempt to coax you into spending more or could even be used as an insult to discredit you in the eyes of ladyboys or possible mates, and even as a form of retaliation for your caution, making you feel uneasy.

[Pdoggg]

On 8/7/2023 at 12:58 AM, Pulci Gorgon said:

Ring the bell : in Thai bar, if you ring the bell, this means that you offer everyone a drink. 

When I first came to Thailand this was the case most of the time.  But nowadays more often than not, only staff gets a drink.  It depends on the bar.