beijo

Its not such a wide brush if you look at who we are talking about. We, the tourists, who are looking for sex in the Thai bars and the Thai LB's and GG's who are looking to make a living selling sex, a relative small group of people.The Thais we are dealing with are not the most affluent and I dont want to put anybody down or blame them for what they are doing. The Thais we are dealing with most of the time dont have any other way to achieve a better live and for the punters its easy to get fooled. Who would go looking for love and devotion in the bar scene back home?

Duke - Yes there are exceptions to the rule, there always are and I am glad you found one and treated her right. But I stand by my above post even if many of you think its cynical. There are too many of us loosing sight of reality when on vacation in LOS and maybe its wishful thinking. Just like redrock says its all about sex and money.

Mardhi - short term lease. Right on Randi - Be careful on bringing somebody back I believe we make a big mistake by expecting Thais (same Lao & Cambodia) to have the same values we have and feel sorry for them when played by a falang. I believe that love and relationship, including marriage have a totaly different meaning in the Asian culture than what we are used to, and I believe that our beloved LB's are not so much jaded but do what comes natural to them. Remember the words "I am looking for somebody to take care of me". Its not looking for eternal love, its simply looking for security and money is security and more money is more security. I happen to have some insight in the local non P4P Thai / Laotion community here in the US and I see older men importing young wifes from Asia. The young wifes come for a better future not for love and leave the old men when established in the country and can stand on their own or when she finds a better prospect, Old man goes back to Asia to bring back an other young wife and so on. Marriage just does not seem to have the same meaning we are used to and lets not forget the first loyalty is not to the husband but to the parents. In most cases I believe the LB or Asian GG will look at a falang husband as a means to get what they want materialy. How is that any different from the guys gaming the girls. I believe the only one who is getting a raw deal is the poor guy who is falling in love with a Thai LB or GG and expexts true love, honesty and a long term comitment.

Just found this item: BFS Premium Airport Services at Suvarnabhumi - this service will wait for you at the gate upon arrival and fast track you through immigration and customs avoiding the long lines for a fee. With electric car 1300 baht, without 700 baht. Same service is available at departure with a pick up curbside at gate 8 and subsequent fast track through check in security and immigration. Fee = 850 baht I am ready to try them out on my next trip. WWW.bangkokflightservices,com

Mardhi - I stand corrected, but I think the points I made are still valid. LB's, freelancers or salaried, are looking for customers and punters are looking for LB's, the location for contact is secondary. I wonder if parties and other events layed on by bars are economical and result in loyal customers. I myself actualy avoid such things because i would feel to much like a baloon chaser. But back to freelancers, for a punter who looks for a couple of days company I would think a freelancer from a bar would be preferable since he would have to pay a barfine only for the first day while with a salaried LB he would be have to pay the barfine for every day the LB is with him. LB's seem to prefer multiple day arrangements as well (good opportunity to milk the punter for the max). Most LB,S are hungry and by what I read on the forums is that most punters have a limited budget, i bet these two interests are not in conflict. Looks to me like life might be getting even more difficult for the bars in Patts

Mardhi - A punters view for you. I come to Thailand for LB's GG's and sight seeing, you noticed bars are not on the list. Bars are at best a means to find what I am looking for. GoGo bars I leave to others and believe me it has nothing to do with my income level. Layed back places like La Bamba, Linda bar, Horny bar and a couple others on soi 6 suit me fine and i like to hang out for a while in those places and move on to the next until I find what I am looking for. There is no loyalty to any specific place and lets be honest most of the Patts bars are not much better than dumps. If I am looking for a nice place with the right ambience I might as well stay home and if I want to get stoned, again a good bottle of wine at home is much more pleasant and safer than any bar in Thailand. I cant comment on the pool table subject since I dont play pool. What I am trying to say is that I believe that most punters come to Thailand to find LB's or GG's at reasonable costs after having paid their airfare and hotels and will go to where ever they find what they are looking for.

What are we talking about here ? How many punters are there ready to blow 20 000 baht @ day every day? I think this topic looks strictly at bar owners and ignores the average punter (average as I surmise reading this and other forums). I myself consider myself average and I am not the type to run up a few thousand Baht bar bill. I may have 2 or 3 beer and pay a couple of lady drinks, I dont mind paying 300 or even 500 Baht bar fine but hell needs to freeze over before I pay a 2000 baht bar fine or blow the 20 000 baht @ night. After all I am not visiting Thailand to support the local bars, I am here to have fun and shag a couple of LB's. My budget for a 21 day visit to Patts would be 4500 Baht / day or roughly 95 000 Baht in total excluding Hotel. I dont have much sympathy for the bar owners if most of that goes for the my and the LB's benefit. If the future looks as discribed above, my guess would be that most punters will hang out in the cheap open bars and look for freelance LB's or have previously arranged contacts. I would not be surprised if most LB's would go this route as well rather than wait for the "great spender" who shows up in a blue moon. I have seen this in other places where the establishments jacked up the prices to just see their clientel disappear. Lets hear what some of the other "average Punters" think about the above bar owners projections

WTF, has the forum ownership changed hands to McDonald or am I on the wrong web page ?????

BigMac - only 2 reasons, unions + our legal system

Read today on Bangkog News that Thailand is importing 10,000 Chinese Teachers for a "cultural and educational" exchange. How about some english teachers ? Or is the Taksin government turning their back on the West ? Sure sounds like it if the Thais have to ask the Chinese for permission to allow NASA to fly some weather flights out of a Thai airport. What's your take on this

Randi - join me, go in July and again in November, Who said you have to wait 5 months

Dixon - my point exactly. I retired with 55 and sometime i think it was too late, but I am still having fun. DT is only 51 or what, so he can still chase the not so mighty dollar for 2 or 3 years and hope that inflation is not killing what he can save. I sure enjoyed what the dollar could buy in LOS 25 yeass ago

Sorry to hear about your weather, come to California, nothing but sunshine. Going to BKK and Pats next week for 3 weeks and again in November, just cant stay away from the place. DT - dont let your success keep you away from fun, life is short

This should save you some searching: Korean Air $984 United/ANA $995 Delta $1015 China Southern $971 United $1022 Air China $1018 ANA $1025 And on top of it November is low season in LOS which translates in great deals on hotel prices.

Hear, Hear. But I still prefer to LIVE HERE and take vacations in LOS

Check out the fares from the US west coast to BKK for November, prices have come way down. Some even below 1K. Good luck

To each their own - Yes, if I would be 20 years younger, have to hold down a job and would be limited to 2 weeks a year in Los I might want to pack as much as possible into those 2 weeks as well and it would be tempting to have something new next to me in bed every night. There would be no time to go sightseeing either, However, at this time in live things move a bit slower and i do like to see more than the inside of a bar. I am sure anybody who had taken a Thai LB or GG on a trip outside Pattaya or BKK has seen a different Thailand than when going alone, maybe even learned a bit about Thai culture. And while on that subject, we seem to judge and/or measure based on our values but lets not forget asian ways and ours are worlds apart and nowhere is this more apparent than in a male female/LB relationship and appearance, even when not backed by substance, is quite important.

Randiuno - I fully agree with you and I like the way you put it " if you can, do it. If not, dont ". If it cost you a few dollars, just think what you would be paying to have a P4P LB or GG stay with you for a week or two and I bet you would not get the GFE you are getting in LOS. Being a bit further in age than Randiuno I am not counting on true love from a LB or GG who is 30 years younger. However, if such a relationship is offered I will certainly be greatful and enjoy every minute of it and I would expect to pay a price. Every relationship has a price and by my experience the most expensive relationship I had was being married. So, my advise to newbies would be, dont be scared of a longer term relationship it can be rewarding and worth every minute of it but dont loose your head. Dont try to impress with your money but do pay what you would pay for a girlfriend back home but not more.

Great story JD, cant wait for the next "release". However, I can relate to your feelings at the time it all happened ,working in a foreign country makes one feel more than alone at times, good for you having those friends. It would have been nice to have such friends while I was in Zaire during the civil war and in Teheran during the revolution. I know that helpless and lost feeling too well.

Looks like I am not quite up to date. Please enlighten me on both, the short time fee on top of the bar fine AND the illegal coffee. Need to know for my next trip in July.

S-Sam, I have used EVA flights from Los Angeles to BKK in the past and the connection is quite good, on the way back even better than on the way over. If I remember correctly it was 2hr over and 1hr back for lay-overs. Overall trip time close to non-stop trip times, and EVA's premium economy is certainly worth the money. It's a class by itself, like Thai premium economy, far far better than United.

" enough is never enough to a Thai " make that Thai ladyboy, for that matter make it ANY LADYBOY. However, my Thai GG girlfriend of 2+ years has never asked me for any money, in cash or by mail.

Welcome to all, Newbies and refugees. Judging by the number of posts on this sub-forum over such a short time span it seems that either a bomb went off in some other forum or the word got out that this is the best one. Welcome

Siamsam - here is some stuff for you. Dont rely on info shown in Kayak, its good for general info but sometimes misleading as well. My experience is that if I go directly to airline sites I will get a better price than shown by Kayak, in addition i noticed that at times Kayak does not show all airlines flying the route I am searching. Thai airlines had been excluded at times and i noticed that i can get better additional flights on the united site. Just checked, EVA flights for July LAX - BKK economy US$ 1314, Premium Economy US$ 1944, Vancouver - BKK August thru November CA$ 1771

SS, if that is what you are paying from Canada you might be better off getting 2 tickets, 1 from Canada to US west coast and the second one on to Thailand. The price I quoted in my above post is including full 100% milage credit or 150% credit for premium members. Keep in mind that right now you have high season and fares for later in the year are up to US$ 500 cheaper