pacman

Ah Pacman there you are. I thought this thread was about you posting here when I read the title. Good to have you back and active.

Thanks BB, it's nice to be with friends, we go back a long way. We just need Pampamsam to log on to complete the triumvirate...

And thanks for making me laugh with the Dark Knight reference, I liked it...

I am also happy to see a quintessential Australian gentleman like you Pacmeister!!! I look forward to our next dinner date at that Indian Restaurant, where you so lovingly spoon fed me those lambs brains.

Quintessential? Does that mean I am 5 times more essential than the other gentlemen?

Thank you for your kind words Mr Lefty & I do have fond memories of our Indian feeds. I am off out to an Indian restaurant tonight as luck would have it. And if you recall, the lamb brains were a gift from the host, your friend I believe & instead of giving me a taste, he brought out a dish of them. I could hardly eat them all myself & I was happy to pass some across in the most manly, heterosexual manner I could manage.

We wouldn't want all the other patrons talking about us now, would we?

I have also put in time in the hospitality business. Not recently but given that others have stated their credentials, I may as well add mine too.

I have run bars that had a number of pool tables, in one hotel about 20 of them scatterred over 3 bars, they were an essential part of the bars success, & no one ever expected them to be free. And there was nothing to gain from it anyway, the tables were always well patronised, it wasn't as if more people would come to drink just to save themself the price of a pool game.

I urge FlatPack to start charging for his table. When something is free, no one values it. By putting a cost on it, more people might get a game. And he should also ban anyone from lining up coins on the table so as to secure the table for themselves. That isn't fair on others who would like a game.

Where I worked, the next guy would challenge the holder of the table to a game, the winner would then be challenged in turn. Perhaps in LOS the person playing surrenders the table to the next person in line once they have finished their game, they can then add their name to the list for their next go.

Whatever FlatPack decides must become the house rule in order to prevent any arguments. It isn't hard to get people to accept what is customary in the bar, the problem comes when someone just wants to be greedy. And they will get a whole lot less greedy when they have to pay for every game.

Every baht counts in these difficult times, several thousand baht a week just being given away is crazy. Nothing worth having is ever free.

I was never a fan of Riga. I have discussed her at some length with the management & told them exactly what she does. I was listened to & I know she was spoken to. I was surprised she kept her position but after it was explained to me, I understand why.

Riga isn't there because we love her. She is there because she is the most effective manager the bar has ever had. She commands respect from the girls & they all obey her direction. Riga not only has the authority to sort out a dispute but she will actually do it. And she won't hesitate to order her fellow Thais to back down & even make them lose face, if it comes to that.

And that is no small thing. As anyone who has seen Thais trying to discipline Thais would know, they are not good at going against a fellow Thai & they are not good at following instructions that favour farang over Thai.

So I let my own bias go & embraced her & found her to be a very nice person underneath all the blubber. She still likes to try it on me when we meet. She won't hesitate to suggest a 100 baht tip or a beer but she laughs it off when I say no & doesn't harbour any grudge. And I certainly have benefitted from the occasional times when I have tipped her, she has stepped in & helped me with my photographic arrangements or translation issues. She has even reciprocated me with a beer but I don't suggest anyone should expect the same.

I consider her an ally in the bar who is able to help me in case of a misunderstanding in the bar. It hasn't been a big issue for me but I have seen her calming drunken patrons down & putting the girls in their place many times. And that is why she has the support of the management. As they told me, customers come & go but Riga saves us a lot of drama.

Thank you Sam & DT. It has been awhile, too long actually. All is well with me, I hope the same applies to both of you plus the many other names I know here but haven't seen for a while.

I wonder if they are as happy to see me as I am to see them...

Hang on Sailor, I am not sure Mardhi & you are on the same page.

His oblique post refers to 'porous borders' & 'flower sellers', references I took to mean these ports are being used as transit sites for the transportation of the product coming out of the Golden Triangle. Excuse me for also being vague as I may be barking up the wrong tree completely.

And I doubt our webmaster wants an open discussion on the subject, anything related to this subject is going to attract attention.

I am incredulous that Mardhi is having a go at all sailors on shore leave, just those who are involved in this "nasty stuff".

- one could have done it already - they had all the basics in place but have blown it by indifferent service and perceived lack of controls in place.

I deliberately didn't mention that 'one'. So often when I comment on Obsessions Pattaya aka The Kitten Club, I draw negative comments from people with an axe to grind with the place. But I will say that they have done it, not could have done it, however their longterm customer base is now a lot more conservative with expenditure than they were in the day.

They still have occasion when someone spends like a drunken sailor, mainly because they probably are a drunken sailor. Tales of US servicemen flying in from the Middle East & blowing several thousand dollars in a night are too numerous to count. The main hotel suites being supplied with every available girl from the bar are legendary & this has happened on many, many occasions. They aren't alone with stories about big spenders of course but the days when this was commonplace would appear to be long gone.

As to their indifferent service, it really isn't as bad as it is portrayed. Some customers can get difficult when under the influence of liquor & they do tempt fate by handing over uncounted wads of cash. It amazes me they are as protected as well as they are, I have seen many times when the service girl carefully counts out every last baht in change when the customer was in no condition to check.

And I should comment about 'the perceived lack of controls in place'. Nowhere in Pattaya has any place invested more money in a computerised system designed to protect us from overcharging. Every single drink order is sent out with a docket that has to be signed by the customer which is then included with the final total so all orders can be verified before payment. It is impossible to have your bill padded inside the bar, despite what some "customers" would have us believe.

I use inverted commas on the word "customers" because anyone who knows the history of the place knows it has been attacked for everything by people whose interests lie elsewhere. Competitors, customers who didn't get their way, who knows who these people are, when you have been big enough long enough, you are bound to attract their ire.

And the sad part of the story which might help explain the direct lack of owner involvement is that of all the people on earth, he is the only one who will be arrested the moment he sets foot in his own bar. So he has to trust Thais to oversee Thais & if you have never tried it, that is a not a recipe for award winning management. They do a decent job but there can be a touch of Thai-people versus the rest.

Or to put it simply, I have adapted the old joke - Rule Number One - Thai people are always right. Rule Number Two - When Thai people are wrong, refer to Rule Number One.

Interesting, not a mention of the elephant in the room as far as this movie goes. I wonder if this film will be forever tainted by the memory of Aurora & the terrible killings that happened there.

It isn't a marketing coup that anyone could wish for but it does give this film an iconic status that it could never have expected. Or wanted.

I keep reading how unrelentingly grim this movie is, I hope to draw my own conclusions soon.

Good posts from all, a comprehensive analysis of the question. And Mardhi has nailed the situation from the bar owners perspective. As to the prospect of two or three big go-go's employing all the best girls, that is something I have thought possible for a long time.

Everytime I am in Happy a-Go Go or similar, I am amazed at the number of punters inside & the volume of drinks being served. But I wonder if there are enough LB lovers who could make up the numbers night after night in a LB go go? I mean these GG bars have over a hundred people inside on any night, could a LB bar do likewise?

Add to that the current global recession & the likelihood of a giant LB Go Go seems a way-off. But I don't have a great record in making predictions & someone may be planning one as I write. I hope they have a lot of money.

I thought the title of the thread was referring to the forum members but I see there's another lot of sex slaves.

I am curious about Mardhi's comment. What nasty stuff is happening 50kms away? I know we share our holidays with some low forms of life but I would like to know just what they are up to. And who are we talking about? At least give us a clue. Cheers.

I wouldn't defend the poor attitude of the staff but in fairness they do have to put up with some very ignorant behaviour from tourists. I have seen some awful people in some of the markets & shops who I would never tolerate if I had to deal with them. Obviously the staff at Robinsons aren't on an incentive that if not met, gets them fired.

Either that or they just don't care anymore. I once dated a GG from Oceans on Beach Road who had one day off a month, the other 29 days, she worked 12 hour shifts. She was always tired. She would do her laundry at midnight, she shared one room with two other girls, her life was terrible. Oceans did feed her though.

I was very glad to hear she had resigned & gone home to Krabi before the tsunami swept in the front door & drowned all those people in the basement.

How unlucky was that? If the farang don't wear them down, the management don't sack them for poor sales, then mother nature will take them out while they are on a meal break. It makes me appreciate my lot just a bit more.

Oh gawd Larry, that has to be the worst rhyme ever..

It does one thing though, it confirms Dixon's indisputable position as our premier Limerick writer.

I have no idea what you are all on about in regards to this belt buckle incident. Throwing the entire belt away sounds like obsessive compulsive behaviour of the worst kind.

If the belt was any good, I would be more likely to pick it up & keep it.

What sort of anal germophobe would freak out with contact in a urinal? Unless it was with 'Lights-out Janet' in the Cascades toilets...

I am a typical Virgo, without order in my life I go crazy. But that doesn't mean I am not surrounded by mess sometimes.

The funny think though, no matter how much crap I have accumulated, I always know where everything is.

Otherwise I would die...

Excellent advice from Willie there Ken.

It would appear you need to get your serotonin levels up, now that you are no longer stimulating the central cortex or the cerebellum or wherever the alcohol releases the endorphins that you crave so much now.

It is a shame you lack a strong local support network, there is nothing like a group of friends to gee you up, get you laughing & take your mind off being a miserable sod.

Would it help if you started a routine of watching comedy classics? There are verified reports of people laughing themselves well from major sickness simply by watching old comedy films.

I know you don't have an illness but it seems intuitive to me that 3 or 4 hours a day spent laughing must be better than going up the wall with boredom & remorse.

There are many wonderful books that you could easily become engrossed in. Have you tried reading? It might be hard for the first day or two but it is another form of escape.

Rommel couldn't capture Tobruk because he came up against a desperate fighting force - the Rats of Tobruk. They adopted the name after the Germans described them as being 'like rats in a trap'.

Their effort in warding off the might of the German war machine despite being outmanned, outgunned & outsupplied is one of the greatest stories of World War II. Many Australians fought to the death in that campaign. None survive today but while they lived, their reputation won them respect everywhere.

What has all this to do with Glen Campbell BTW? I love how these threads finish up a million miles from where they started...

I know that some believe that if all the bars shut down then Pattaya would go on as before & the girls would all be available, except they would be working freelance.

I don't accept that at all. For starters, the mongers aren't going to book into Pattaya if they read the bar scene has effectively closed. We know where to look for girls, in the bars. Freelancers just aren't reliable.

And for any girl who decided to hang around to try her luck as a freelancer, what's the bet that the Thai mafia wouldn't round her up & put her under their control?

IMO that scenario is a certainty, wherever those blood sucking bastards can capture a monopoly & exploit the locals, they do it in a heartbeat.

And once that became common knowledge, then Pattaya is done. Like a dinner. All over. Finished. Someone turn the lights out as they leave.

Tiger...

Got, Nut & Goob!!!

I hope you have plenty of beer because I think you are going to need it. I have been waiting to see some new blood for a long time but you have delivered in Spades.

Oh blimey...

no one said this was going to be easy. But if you can hold out a week, then you can hold out for however long this takes.

And that cocky shit in your mouth, that goes too. The body is healing itself & you are barely past the first treatment.

And look how creative that has made you. Where else in Christendom would we share a fellow FM's experience with such eloquence.

I can't wait to read your outpourings when the headaches start. And are you drinking enough water? Try green or herbal tea, it is water with a little taste.

Not a great taste but it might make it more palatable. It might not either but right now, you have more important things to worry about.

Your recovery to full health. Accept nothing less.

I know what you mean but I still think it's little harsh on the lad to slam him for referring to a bar that "has not been called JSB for TWO YEARS" when said bar has a fucking huge sign above it calling it Jenny's Star Bar... and that is from just two days ago!

If it's Soup's first visit then he won't have seen it with just the Engerland flag - maybe they've stuck the JSB sign back up again for retro reasons

I am very glad to learn that the old name is back in place, it hasn't been on my last 4 or 5 trips. It might mean that the local BiB, Pattaya's finest, have finally learned something about getting blood out of a stone.

The reason why JSB & many other bars had to change their name had to do with some spurious law about paying a tax for signage. The police response to this legislation was handled in the most adhoc way, some fell foul of it, others didn't. Or they didn't pay up, I know Jenny was being asked for some ridiculous amount of money before she was forced to change her name.

This new sign of course explains how 'soupdog' knew the old name for the place. So many people have wandered up & down Walking Street searching for it in vain.

It isn't my form to jump on new posters, I figured given that this was his first post, he was having a lend. I mean, how would a newcomer ever guess that was JSB? Now I know.

OK, which one of you guys registered as 'soupdog'? And thanks for the laugh BTW, I got a kick out of reading about a bar in Walking Street that has not been called JennyStarBar for TWO YEARS!!

And I do intend to be kind to you, I nearly fell off my chair with laughter reading you asking if there is something 'dogey' (I assume you mean dodgy) about the ladies working there.

I can confirm there is a lot of dodgy characters in England Bar (as pointed out by the Hound), it is a place I urge extra caution, I know of pockets being picked & drinks being drugged. I was given one myself a few years back while taking in the sights.

I always suggested a drink in JSB as one of the things a Pattaya newbie should do but today I would give it a wide berth. With the lowest of low seasons now upon Pattaya, you just know they are going to try anything to separate you from your money.

Money that will immediately be spent with their local Ice or Yabba dealer.

As for 'soupdog', I look forward to more of your posts, you are off to an auspicious start, don't stop now.

Thank you Ken, you are very welcome. I had hoped I wasn't being patronising. I am sure guys who have personal experience with alcohol addiction could give a better insight but I quite understand any reluctance on their part to delve into something most would prefer to forget.

But where angels fear to tread, that's where I am likely to be posting. Life is just too short to be sitting on the fence on matters that may or may not offend someone.

I have been thinking about the time frame of hangovers, etc & I think I may be way off with my estimate of 4 to 5 weeks. I am sure my friend told me that he could expect to get sick anywhere between one month & three months, depending on how long he left it since his last detox. I will ring him & ask but he doesn't live in Oz anymore.

It's good to hear you follow a healthy diet, healing will be much quicker if you can take as much load off your liver as possible.

Once you conquer this dragon, the next step will be to quit the cigarettes. Most heavy drinkers like to smoke. I know my friend sees them as being worse than any occasional binge drink. And they are the reason he left Oz, the smoking restrictions here are among the strictest in the world.

He once told me that he could order a liver through the black market (I mentioned he was wealthy) but he regretted that he couldn't order a pair of lungs. I look back on these conversations as being completely surreal, imagine going to the agent & asking "one liver please, make it from a young non-drinker". Apparently the prices are astronomical & there are no shortage of customers!!

Ken, as one of your support team I feel obliged to add some encouragement.

The friend I refer to above shared many of his concerns with me & at the height of his drinking (when he would wake somewhere after a 3 day bender not knowing where he was or what he had done), he admitted that he was never going to make old bones & needed to make some plans for his wife & 3 children. This would be in the form of life insurance but for the sum involved, he needed to pass a rigorous medical examination. This included passing a liver function test. This would appear impossible in light of the fact that he had been diagnosed with a swollen liver 25 years previously.

He could afford the best medical advice & he rigorously followed his specialists advice. I don't know just how long he stayed sober & I don't know what medication he was on but much later we were talking & I asked him how he went. "No problem, all tests came back 100% & insurance approved".

His damn liver had regenerated itself to work as good if not better than mine!!

Please take heart from that Ken, it is never too late to start swinging the ship around. I hope you are following orders & drinking plenty of water with lots of fresh fruit & vegetables. I don't know what medication helps but if you aren't on it yet, please do so. There are excellent herbs too that ease liver illness but I am sure you know about them. Milk Thistle is one that I keep reading about.

Ken, 3 weeks won't be enough if you have giving the turps a nudge for a few years.

I know several alcoholics, the term to describe them is 'functioning alcoholics', i.e. they can perform their work while still under the permanent influence of liqueur. You can talk to them & never even know they were legally drunk.

But they are smart guys & they know that sometimes they have to give themself a rest. One of them describes the first month he stops drinking as extremely painful as the toxins leave his body. A living hell is how he describes it.

But then the hangover hits. It can be 4 weeks after he stops, it can be 5 weeks & it can be longer. It all depends on how long it has been since his last detox & how heavily he has drunk since then.

And this is someone who can drink 10 beers followed by two or 3 bottles of wine, then a bottle of cognac. And the next night he does the same!! But he works during the day, he can stop drinking at will, I don't know if he qualifies as a true alcoholic but he drinks prodigious amounts of booze.

And he never slurs his words either! He is wealthy enough to employ a driver however. He may be a drunk but he's not an idiot.

Anyway, I was mentioning the hangover. Apparently it hits like a sledgehammer & lasts from 3 days to a week. It is the part of the process he fears most & is the single thing that keeps him drinking even when he thinks he shouldn't. He is so afraid of the pain.

Once he has flushed the booze out & the hangover stops, he is fine. He hates that he can't stay sober, the moment someone wants to share a glass of wine, it all starts over again. He knows it is killing him & he would give anything to control it.

If you can stay sober for a month or at least until you are over the hangover, you will improve your life immeasurably. Who knows, you may even start having spontaneous erections again.

Thank you Ken for the best written self examination I have ever had the pleasure to read on this or any other forum. I suspect you are a journalist or a writer, such is the eloquence expressed here & your mastery of the language.

This has all the attributes of a play worthy of the Bard himself. And like all good stories, there is a moral presented at the end wrapped up in a sweet piece of revenge. Not the knife-to-the-heart type of revenge Bee deserved but probably something more excruciating in the long run.

I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when son had to explain to mother that the golden goose was gone. I wonder how he twisted that story around to make you out to be the villain. Telling the truth is too much to ask of him when his whole life is based on lies & deception.

And in the end, you didn't come out too bad. You may have been a fool but would you have been happier had you spurned Bee in the first place. I always come back to that expression "tis better to have loved & lost than never to have loved at all".

After all, it's only money & what else is it good for if not to buy happiness no matter how fleeting. And all that pain that went with it? I think the torture goes hand in hand with the desire for something you know you can never own.

It almost adds to the pleasure in some sadistic way. OK, I exaggerate but your description of your personal pain is terrific stuff & had me hanging on the edge of my seat.

I hope all subsequent encounters with the locals have gone in your favour, I would be very cross to learn that this was all in vain.