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I assume you are referring to sam gyeop sal which i must say is delightful.

 

And you appear to have an interesting level of Korean knowledge given your reference to pig shit.

 

Jeju is famous for their interesting culinary treats given to their Jeju piggies to make them tasty. Best we keep that little secret to ourselves.

 

Are you sure you haven't got your wires crossed on that one, i was under the impression that dong dweaji is the least of our issues...

Never learned to write Korean using the alphabet, not that I know of any rules dictating  a correct spelling, no problem doing it in Hangul however.

Having worked several years in South Korea and more it's more than an interesting level of Korean knowledge I have, must admit I was surprised to see that you appear to know more aswell than the average man in the street.

Jeju's delicacies indeed aren't the issue here, but I believe you started it off with a scenic tour of Jeju Island.

Itaewon, and the transgender bars would fit in more though... If you're still there, and if it's still there, Old Town (not a transgender bar, as they are called in South Korea) on hooker hill used to be a good pick up place for the occasional Korean Ladyboy.

The three screen shots are one continuous post all written by the same guy. I needed three separate grabs to get the whole post. Your comment that it's all sour grapes because they fired him takes a very biased view. When I read it, it seems more like they wanted him gone because he crossed a few senior pilots who couldn't deal with the loss of face. I can't see how someone of his experience all of a sudden became an incompetent trainer who could no longer do his job. He did his job too damn well by the sound of it.

 

Comparing KAL & Asiana to the airlines you list who have also crashed isn't the point here. Yes, other airlines have crashes & hull losses but they have yet to plow a modern aircraft into the ground in perfect landing conditions. That thread in the pilot's forum on the SFO crash goes on & on about how could this happen. And if they can do it despite all the interventions you talk about designed to change the culture of the Korean airlines, I am inclined to agree with the theory that this won't be the last time they fly a perfectly good plane into the ground. Time will tell...       

Here's different view on the speculation surrounding this crash

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/2013-07-18/pilots-association-president-slams-ntsb-over-asiana-probe

I mentioned QF as the cause of the crash was bad communication between the flight crew.

About the screenshots. The first part is written by someone who was fired by KAL, sounds like nothing more than sour grapes. I did mention before that KAL did great efforts to improve their safety, as can be read in your screenshots, which resulted in crash free flying for over a decade now. Air France lost 4 aircraft in the same period, American Airlines 2, US Air 6 between 1986 and 1994, not counting hijacked aircraft. Obviously even after 50 years of crash free flying one can always refer back to the period before that to try to make a point and call them unsafe. It's easy to shout after the accident, I knew it would happen... If it was such an ingrained problem as some of them claim, why don't we see more of these accidents happen? Again, a very unfortunate accident. If it involved a United 777 nobody would cry foul.

The Airbus and Boeing 20 year market outlook are pretty similar and hoover around 8500 widebody aircraft worldwide.

Email as you try and oddly counter someone relaying information, perhaps you should provide your credentials to give us any reason to consider any of your points as being valid. Btw is it you.. The Studly by any chance?

I did find the jeju seoul-route interesting. Very overated place is jeju. Crappy beaches and an overglamorised volcanic rock.

Over popularised as a consequence of the extremely patriot citizens of dae han min kuk.

Ive heard mount halla is nice to climb, but prefered eating kimbap in town instead of the former option. For whats its worth i did enjoy riding around cow island on a motorbike, but forgive me as i digress.

I flew out of jeju on asiana and had one of the shittiest landings in busan airport history.... okay i may also be exagerating.

The entire occupants of the plane erupted in clapping once we finally pulled up, except for me of course... Cool in a crisis.

Now defining hull loss in terms of a hard landings. I would have thought that would be fairly obvious - well to me anyways. I wont read a text book and parrott off an answer for you, instead ill give it an educated guess.

How about....

Damage caused in landing that comprises the structural integrity and air worthiness of the craft and necessarily requires repairs in order to make the said craft airworthy.

Fuck i like it!!

Now a heavy landng... Do i really need to explain? Ive been in maybe 1-2 ... To the best of my knowledge they werent hull losses.. As defined by myself.

I don't see how your experiences at Jeju are of any relevance to this topic. Besides, there's no need to go to Jeju to eat kim bap, next time try black pig meat or sam kjob sal from tong dweaji.

As I mentioned before the 9 hull losses of KE and the 3 of OZ are the only hull losses. There's no data on hard landings or tail strikes available. Any number thrown out is purely speculation as no airline would publicly give out such information if it can be avoided. BTW, Who's The Studly?

Pacman,

There are several crashes that can be contributed to pilot error, even tough comparison might be premature as the NTSB still needs to publish its final findings. A Qantas 744 overran the runway at Dong Muang in 1990 after confusion between the captain and the first officer on whether to go around. The aircraft was fixed in order to prevent a hull loss on an otherwise spotless QF record, even tough a write off would have made more sense economically.  A crash has almost never a single cause but is nearly always the result of a chain of events.

Furthermore I need to point out that there's nowhere near 17000 wide-bodied airliners to be delivered in the next few years, worldwide. Let alone to Asian airlines. In fact the current backlog of widedody aircraft orders between the 2 dominating aircraft manufactures, Airbus and Boeing, is about 2500 aircraft worldwide. 

That is still a huge loss of aircraft in relative terms to take off's and landings.   South Korea is NOT that large a country and does not have huge movements like the US for example.   In international terms, both airlines are (relatively) tiny.    Its a significant hull loss no matter how you look at it.  

 

One Big MNC I managed did not allow any staff to fly on these airlines unless they were based in South Korea and had no choice.   That is actually quite common among MNC's

Korean Air Cargo is the world largest cargo airline. Seoul - Jeju is the world's busiest domestic route. In addition to Korean Air and Asiana there are several other airlines, none of them with hull loses. 

Im only guessing but pehaps they refer to hull loss and not crashes as a reference to damage caused by heavy landings.

Yes, you're only guessing. Define a hard landing and the necessary damage to qualify as one. 

Huh! Agenda? He has no agenda. This was a private conversation over dinner & I raised the subject. And he doesn't have any history with Korea or their airlines except for his long flying career where he has had plenty of time to observe the problems with Korean pilots.

 

I questioned him about the loss of hulls. I had never heard of it myself but he repeated the comment. He may not have been referring solely to the two international carriers. I will ring him & ask after he returns from his current trip just whose hulls he meant. I will post his response. He's not inclined to dramatic exaggeration. (Unlike me...        )

 

Your post is most curious. Instead of offering an opinion you want to discredit his message of systemic problems with Korean airlines even resorting to the old tactic of arguing that if one part of my post is wrong then the rest can't be right either. Point out the discrepancy by all means but why are you so keen to defend the indefensible? 

 

My motive was nothing more than to raise the issue of a cultural problem with Korean pilots. Your reply is to question my friend's integrity in a bid to disparage his entire message. So my question to you is  -  why?

Understood your motive but by quoting your friend your post lacks credibility. Korean Air had it's share of problems but reorganized themselves very well over the past decade. With no accidents in over a decade as a result. Your friends comments, are hugely exaggerated. As an aviation professional he should know better. Asiana's crash is very unfortunate, but by no means an indication of a cultural problem in the cockpit. The pilot landing the aircraft was not the captain. The theory of not overruling the captain has no ground here. 

I think the names of the pilots is more telling about the accident than anything else...

 

 It tells more about the news station than anything else really. 

Pacman I'd give your captain a red card and suspect he has a hidden agenda. Did he get denied employment at Asiana or Korean Air? Did his Korean wife left him?

He told you that Korean airlines lose on average 1 aircraft a year. They've lost a 747 freighter 2 years ago, but you'll need to go back at least 12 years before that crash since they've lost another aircraft.  Asiana lost a total of 3 aircraft since it was founded in 1988, Korean Air lost 9 aircraft. This information can easily be verified on the internet. No need to analyze the rest of his comments.

It's hard to believe Kwang/Nadia would be working at a bar again. I know she's shown up from time to time on the scene for different parties, but actually employed at Famous? 

 

I'm somewhat doubtful, but open to being corrected.

She was at the bar every night I was there, the past 2 weeks. I was there 2 out of 3 nights. Last friday, at Batman's party, Kwang was being so annoying that Lita told her off. Kwang left and shouted she'd never set a foot in her bar again. She's a good kid but doesn't mix with the rest of the crew. Have to say that Famous current crew is the most enjoyable and fun lot I've seen under Lita's wings. Well done Lita!

Great. No need to walk far then. Any recommended hostess bars in 104 street?

http://ladyboyreview.com/forum/uploads/monthly_11_2011/post-136-036855200%201322332855.jpg

Sorry to go slightly off topic but is this chart up to date?

I payed 600bath barfine in Koyo 7 on november 14th 2011. The chart says 300.

I'll be carrying a print of the chart with me when in Pattaya next week.

I've booked at the Tonlésapguesthouse in street 104. Apparently it's above a bar called Pickled Parrot. Is the place ladyboy friendly? I'll be there january 29th for 3 nights before going to Shihanouk Ville. Anyone in town up for a drink?