Bar Scene Post COVID-19

[Pdoggg]

I'd estimate that there are around 10,000 odd bars in the Pattaya area.   Even before CV, some guys were saying there were not enough mongers to support that amount of bars.  I would expect some owners to walk away from their leases if that's possible. Even if the bars re-open in June, and if flights resume, I think a number of guys will just take a pass on mongering for awhile and I feel many GG bars are not well positioned for this possible downturn.

I asked Rossco once how many ladyboys bars there were in Pattaya as he tracks this sort of thing and I believe he said something along the lines of 40.  That means less than 1% of the bars are ladyboy bars. I could see who was walking into my building for booty calls (pre-CV) and the percentage of ladyboys certainly seemed upwards of 10%, so there seems to be a huge mismatch between the number of ladyboy bars and the number of ladyboy mongers.  

So hopefully the LB bars won't have it quite as rough as the GG bars. I know these are not easy times for bar owners so we wish Em, Emmy, Petesie, Herberth and the other ladyboy bar owners the best in their battle to weather the storm.

[annat555]

Well these are just my thoughts

I will not be returning until there is a vaccine or the virus has totally gone, that is of course if I do not get the bloody thing, quiet sure if I do it will be my end.

I know one bar that’s rent is due and in normal Thai way the landlord wants an increase rather than trying to help out in these terrible times. Doubt the bar will be able to afford this so will shut.

Many of the small bars with no assets will surely not be able to recreate their business. This virus, will in my opinion totally change the way the tourist thinks – cruising will be hard hit, long flights, Spain & Italy will be frightening to the British tourist. So Thailand will struggle to get back the old farang. The benefit may be that more people will holiday in the UK, so helping it ecomony.

Now I do not frequent GG bars except for an odd drink, so as you say the main Ladyboy bars might survive but some where struggling even before this.

I expect, insurance will play a major role, as I am not sure if the company's will cover for the virus and they might demand the vaccine.

Schemes like the Baku Group expansion, will surely fall by the wayside, will they even survive with the lock down.

So, more Indians, more Chinese and more Russians will be needed to fill the holes left by us farangs.

Also will the city powers, use the virus to put pressure on Soi 6, 7, 8 and 13. to try to make the town more family friendly, I think a good chance of this.

I foresee smaller bars with more owners living above. More specialised services from the girls, more shows and attractions. The Entertainment in Pattaya will be more geared to the Asian/Chinese & Russian markets. I hope I am wrong but the days of great white monger is over, we are becoming a dying breed.

 

[Rom]

I have for years been posting how the sex industry in Thailand as we knew (and relished) it was inexorably fading away with rising incomes and lower birth rates in Thailand that have reduced the SUPPLY of prostitutes, while DEMAND was going up from ever more foreigners (farang and non-farang) mongering in Thailand.  The market outcome of these 2 forces had to be for Thailand to go the way of other former exotic P4P destinations that are no longer affordable to sex tourists on the cheap.  

From this MARKET perspective, COVID-19 would represent a MAJOR SETBACK TO INCOME levels that would force many young Thais into prostitution, while at the same time reducing sex tourist arrivals and DEMAND for years to come out of lingering health concerns and due to lower incomes also in the mongers’ countries of origin.  Does this mean COVID-19 could actually set back the clock on the demise of Thailand’s sex industry and we might get a few more years of affordable mongering out of it ?

I doubt it.  While many more Thais may be forced to prostitute themselves in the foreseeable future, COVID-19 has also set in motion social changes that might include Thailand’s lesser acceptance of continuing to serve as a sex playground for foreigners.  At the same time, with each day of social distancing that passes, more farang business owners will give up on their leases, followed by legal trouble with debts, followed by escaping to their countries never to return again.  How many will still be there in Pattaya when the time comes to reopen their businesses?  Likewise, some of the bargirls and mamasans will never come back as they rebuild their lives elsewhere.

More fundamentally, if Pattaya is serious about re-casting itself as a non-brothel destination, the time to do it would be now with as little resistance from the (decimated) sex industry as there is ever going to be.

Whatever comes next will still be better sexpartywise than what we have in the faranglands, but it will not be the same Pattaya as we knew it.

[Tomcat]

On 4/12/2020 at 4:35 PM, Pdoggg said:

Ibars re-open in June, and if flights resume,

It seems at this juncture that the European Union, or at least least France , are looking to Sept 1 the point when travel will resume to some degree ...

[seven]

Right,  you doom and gloomers. I know this is far from over, but I don't share some of your doomsday views:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-coronavirus-outbreak-could-peak-132912267.html

Cuomo said on Monday that "the worst is over"

The Northeast states of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut will work with Delaware, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island in coordinating to gradually reopen their economies together, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said.

[xyzzy]

1 hour ago, seven said:

Right,  you doom and gloomers. I know this is far from over, but I don't share some of your doomsday views:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-coronavirus-outbreak-could-peak-132912267.html

Cuomo said on Monday that "the worst is over"

The Northeast states of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut will work with Delaware, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island in coordinating to gradually reopen their economies together, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said.

"New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Monday that the worst of the coronavirus pandemic was likely behind the state, so long as there's no rush to reopen the businesses and the economy as hospitalizations slow, which could trigger another acceleration."

What does that mean one month, two months or more months? What date does your lack of doom and gloom need to not to be gloomy and doomy? Just curious. No one is putting any dates to anything right now.

[seven]

Well, I just don't believe in the reports stating from we can't travel abroad for 18 months ( I've seen a decade suggestion), the dark age is coming, 

to the end of human kind.  Obviously I have no  more information than you, I read too much about it, but I don't think its a very healthy standpoint to be expecting the worse. Its bad enough as it is for sure, worst we've ever had, but either we try to beat this or just give up.

When Cuomo says the worst is over I take that as a positive. Our chief epidemiologist in charge says the same. Italy and Spains numbers are down. Surely you can find some comfort in this?

 

[xyzzy]

57 minutes ago, seven said:

When Cuomo says the worst is over I take that as a positive. Our chief epidemiologist in charge says the same. Italy and Spains numbers are down. Surely you can find some comfort in this?

I didn't say I disagree with you. I just wondered what your numbers were. Realistically I think there is a good chance we won't be able to foriegn travel as before until there is a vaccine. It would be nice if that came along before my next Pattaya trip scheduled in mid January. But who knows...  

[rxpharm]

I don't think there will be a ban on travel for any lengthy period of time - however I do believe there will be requirements to travel - as Eithad is testing a system that will check your temperature, travel history, and medical history screens before boarding (likely during check in). I can also see that all passengers will be required to wear surgical masks. This will likely be practice until a vaccine or effective drug treatment is found. The challenge the airlines will face is the reluctance of public to travel for the first while after reopening.

[Pulci Gorgon]

On 4/13/2020 at 7:23 AM, Rom said:

I have for years been posting how the sex industry in Thailand as we knew (and relished) it was inexorably fading away with rising incomes and lower birth rates in Thailand that have reduced the SUPPLY of prostitutes, while DEMAND was going up from ever more foreigners (farang and non-farang) mongering in Thailand.  The market outcome of these 2 forces had to be for Thailand to go the way of other former exotic P4P destinations that are no longer affordable to sex tourists on the cheap.  

From this MARKET perspective, COVID-19 would represent a MAJOR SETBACK TO INCOME levels that would force many young Thais into prostitution, while at the same time reducing sex tourist arrivals and DEMAND for years to come out of lingering health concerns and due to lower incomes also in the mongers’ countries of origin.  Does this mean COVID-19 could actually set back the clock on the demise of Thailand’s sex industry and we might get a few more years of affordable mongering out of it ?

I doubt it.  While many more Thais may be forced to prostitute themselves in the foreseeable future, COVID-19 has also set in motion social changes that might include Thailand’s lesser acceptance of continuing to serve as a sex playground for foreigners.  At the same time, with each day of social distancing that passes, more farang business owners will give up on their leases, followed by legal trouble with debts, followed by escaping to their countries never to return again.  How many will still be there in Pattaya when the time comes to reopen their businesses?  Likewise, some of the bargirls and mamasans will never come back as they rebuild their lives elsewhere.

More fundamentally, if Pattaya is serious about re-casting itself as a non-brothel destination, the time to do it would be now with as little resistance from the (decimated) sex industry as there is ever going to be.

Whatever comes next will still be better sexpartywise than what we have in the faranglands, but it will not be the same Pattaya as we knew it.

This is a smart analysis. The conclusion is we don't really know. The Covid-19 crisis might could revive the P4P industry in Pattaya as it could expedite its end. Ultimately, we'll have to wait and see. 

If farang business owners give up their business to return to their home countries, no one can anticipate whether new ones will come and open new businesses later. However, I think that Thailand is no longer  an opportunity for investments in leisure business for small investors. 

19 hours ago, Tomcat said:

It seems at this juncture that the European Union, or at least least France , are looking to Sept 1 the point when travel will resume to some degree ...

Where did you get this information from ? As far as I know, nothing has been decided yet. 

7 hours ago, rxpharm said:

I don't think there will be a ban on travel for any lengthy period of time - however I do believe there will be requirements to travel - as Eithad is testing a system that will check your temperature, travel history, and medical history screens before boarding (likely during check in). I can also see that all passengers will be required to wear surgical masks. This will likely be practice until a vaccine or effective drug treatment is found. The challenge the airlines will face is the reluctance of public to travel for the first while after reopening.

Traveling conditions will be subject to changes. Each State will enact their own rules what won't make traveling easy. Travelers will need to check they meet prerequisites legally or will fear to be denied access to a country. 
Airline companies will need to recover. It's not sure that traveling will be as cheap as before. If you add medical checks to safety checks, costs will be increased. Eventually, there ill be less travelers. 

Not every one feels like rushing to the airport to catch the next flight to Bangkok or whatever SE Asia destination to monger again. Farangs will need to recover first. We will need to work to restore business, pay social debts or work in new activities to rebuild our economies. Many of us might forget about mongering while younger generations won't see Thailand as a "must see". 

[Tomcat]

2 hours ago, P&G said:

 

 

 

Traveling conditions will be subject to changes. Each State will enact their own rules what won't make traveling easy.

 

UK Daily Telegraph  14 4 2020  page 9.. to be precise

According to the Daily Telegraph Airlines will soon be barred from filling Aircraft and prices may double due to new measure being drafted by the Industry watchdog

social distancing rules mean that the capacity for the plane will halve at the least.  Air travel will soon be off limits for many or so it seems.

No surprise here as we already know that one in five travelers get sick now due to virus and bugs on Aircraft

 

 

[xyzzy]

16 hours ago, rxpharm said:

I don't think there will be a ban on travel for any lengthy period of time - however I do believe there will be requirements to travel - as Eithad is testing a system that will check your temperature, travel history, and medical history screens before boarding (likely during check in). I can also see that all passengers will be required to wear surgical masks. This will likely be practice until a vaccine or effective drug treatment is found. The challenge the airlines will face is the reluctance of public to travel for the first while after reopening.

Well I don't often disagree with you RX but I do on this one. With so many asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 I think temperature screening is something that just makes some feel better about allowing travel but is only somewhat helpful. Travel history and medical history? With a virus this communicable? Worthless IMO. And then of course one has to consider what the country they are flying to will do when the arrive. I'm going no where if I have to quarantine for 14 days. I could be wrong but IMO to assume anything less is Trump-ian.

Perhaps all this could be applied to a select group of big money business people that travel. But it won't be me on my holiday.     

[Pdoggg]

I wonder what the bars will be like when they open up?    What social distancing rules will be mandated?  Will girls be barfineable?  If they are will guys feel safe barfining girls?

Even if there were no new rules whatsover where will the customers come from?    I'm thinking that perhaps bars with low overhead might be the best positioned.   Perhaps bars where the owner has been good to the staff might be the winners in the new environment as well as bars whose customer base tilts towards expats instead of tourists. 

[Tomcat]

I think most guys prick rules there heads so no doubt about the barfinablity. The big question is the distance issue and whether these types of bars will come back...lets face it from London to Las Vegas and beyond go go bars and the like are pondering this issue .. It does not bode well , maybe South East Asia will be different though. 

re edit ... maybe you meant will girls be available....sorry i may have mis read

[deleted]

6 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

I wonder what the bars will be like when they open up?    What social distancing rules will be mandated?  Will girls be barfineable?  If they are will guys feel safe barfining girls?

Even if there were no new rules whatsover where will the customers come from?    I'm thinking that perhaps bars with low overhead might be the best positioned.   Perhaps bars where the owner has been good to the staff might be the winners in the new environment as well as bars whose customer base tilts towards expats instead of tourists. 

Based upon the information available now about COVID19, it’s hard to imagine the scene returning to normal again without an effective vaccine. I just don’t see how bars can make a profit without tourism numbers retuning to what they once were, and that seems so far away and uncertain at present. Many LB bars were barely surviving as it was. I would not be at all surprised if some bars walk away from their current venues, losing their key money, and then reopen in new locations when the crisis is over.

[Tomcat]

I agree . the vaccine is the way for Girly bars to re open . Unless the virus suddenly retreats by xmas the good times are in the past.. 

one supposes that it could all drift online as Thaifriendly is still active. As long as the Hotels are open and are not to fussy this may be the only way.

Expect a huge joiner fee .  Im optimistically pessimistic about the whole thing

[ciobha]

I think the one thing we all know about this, is that we know nothing about this. There are opinions ranging from the extremely optimistic, i.e everything will be fine in 3 to 4 months, to the doom merchants, i.e we ain't going back to normal for 3 to 4 years. Even the scientists and medical experts have conflicting opinions, because right now they are just opinions as it is new even to them.

This thing could come back in a second wave even harder than the current situation, or it could disappear out of the blue, never to return. I like to live my life with my glass half full, so am going with the brighter predictions, for now.

[seven]

2 hours ago, ciobha said:

I like to live my life with my glass half full, so am going with the brighter predictions, for now.

 Thank you. Same here.

[Pdoggg]

12 hours ago, Tomcat said:

re edit ... maybe you meant will girls be available....sorry i may have mis read

TC, I meant both.  Will the girls be available?  And even if the girls are available there will be some guys who love a big thick cock deep down their throat but would not want same same with a ventilator.  But I agree with your assessment as mongers are used to taking some level of medical risk even if they use condoms religiously for vaginal and anal sex.

Everyone who has posted on this thread so far certainly knows their way around well enough that they would not have a shortage of sex partners although some might give Thailand a miss if the bar scene was not as much fun anymore.

But it's not impossible that the government deems P4P sex a public health risk given the current situation.  Currently Pattaya has a 100K baht fine and a year in the monkey house as the penalty for walking on the beach or swimming in the ocean.   

11 hours ago, Tomcat said:

As long as the Hotels are open and are not to fussy this may be the only way.

If this is the penalty for just walking on the beach, a fine of this sort for engaging in P4P sex would not be off the table.  Hotels could be instructed to prohibit joiners.   

I know many guys who would risk a 100K baht fine for engaging in P4P in a location where they're unlikely to be caught.  But once time in the monkey house becomes part of the calculus then maybe knocking one out while watching Pornhub becomes more appealing.

What's the likelihood of a rule such as this?   Who knows?  Given that there was a booze ban even for home consumption, I don't think that a 10% or higher chance would be unrealistic.

[Hard1]

11 hours ago, Tomcat said:

I agree . the vaccine is the way for Girly bars to re open . Unless the virus suddenly retreats by xmas the good times are in the past.. 

one supposes that it could all drift online as Thaifriendly is still active. As long as the Hotels are open and are not to fussy this may be the only way.

Expect a huge joiner fee .  Im optimistically pessimistic about the whole thing

I have made some checks with Thaifriendly: the same chicks, that had cost me 1500-2000+ 600-800BF from CIB, WHYNOT, KRU for a couple of hours sex, now can come for around 1000 baht. So, I am ready to pay for a huger joiner fee . The problem now is when and at which cost to return to Thailand. The bars are no longer needed, to find good meat.

[Quietguy]

11 minutes ago, Hard1 said:

The bars are no longer needed, to find good meat.

Well if you regard the lbs as 'meat' that makes sense I suppose. Personally I like to get to know the girls, and wouldn't judge them by their photoshopped pics on tf and limited online messaging.

I'm not criticising guys who are just after sex and not much more, but that's not for me. Though it might well be easier if it was.

[Woodie]

I spoke to my girl today, and asked her if she would go back to Pattaya from her home as soon as they get the go ahead. She said no, she would wait some time to see what happens.

I also asked about girls she worked with who were still in Pattaya. She said that they are walking the streets to make a living. I don't think Beach Rd is workable, so they must be elsewhere such as 2nd Rd or Soi Bukhao. You would wonder if there are enough customers to make it worthwhile?. Would not mind betting that the prices are down!.

[Hard1]

4 hours ago, Quietguy said:

Well if you regard the lbs as 'meat' that makes sense I suppose. Personally I like to get to know the girls, and wouldn't judge them by their photoshopped pics on tf and limited online messaging.

I'm not criticising guys who are just after sex and not much more, but that's not for me. Though it might well be easier if it was.

I fully respect your point of view. But, please do not misjudge me: I treat all the girls as human beings and very often, when they perform well, I even overpay them and offer them beakfast in luxury hotels. But they remain for me just sex toys. I also go to the bars, but just to take my prey ASAP. I know the risk of photoshopped pics, but, in these cases, my strategy is simple: when they arrive, if I do not like them, I give them 500 baht and send them back and this is cheaper than a barfine + the price of some watered drinks in dirty glasses.

[Tomcat]

11 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

.  But once time in the monkey house becomes part of the calculus then maybe knocking one out while watching Pornhub becomes more appealing. 

 

 

OMG ..That would be a show stopper for most of us and certainly me. I did not realize how strict it had become over there . 

I was thinking ahead a bit maybe  to Xmas time but time will tell . Of course it all depends on Air travel and the limits imposed by IATA and all the Countries involved ...

Im not sure how much sway the sex club industry mafia has in LOS but probably more than in Western Europe

No one will be getting a vaccine jab before next Spring thats for sure and maybe never . One hopes that the prize money will concentrate minds

 

 

[seven]

3 hours ago, Tomcat said:

OMG ..That would be a show stopper for most of us and certainly me. I did not realize how strict it had become over there . 

Somehow I have a problem with seeing the Pattaya sextourist handing over his passport to mamasan pre-barfine, I sure as hell wouldn't.