Jump to content

Coronavirus


seven

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, seven said:

Same mechanism at work with covid-19. Deny and/or ignore it.

Yes, thinking about Thailand in particular, it's not always deny or ignore, it can be different medical practices.

About 4 years ago i was hospitalised in Issan for almost a month unable to breathe . QG may remember this from our other forum days.

no coughing, sneezing, phlegm etc etc, no flu symptoms at all... just unable to get oxygen in to the lungs. therefore, couldn't walk couldn't do anything. 2 stairs were like climbing Everest.

To my horror i was diagnosed with C.O.P.D. This is a long story, i may explain further in a post if anyone wants to know details... but to cut the story short eventually i recovered.

The point is though long after i had improved a English woman i knew...ex-nurse... got a chest infection., went to the local doctor who told her 'you have C.O.P.D" to which the nurse replied  "bollocks i have! i've got a chest infection."

The Doctor then explained... "in Thailand we call any Bronchial disease except Pneumonia and asthma... C.O.P.D. It's a general catch-all name .

This was great for me- it explained the lack of symptoms i had, because i didn't have C.O.P.D at all,  but...any of you issan residents  who share land with hundreds of scrawny thai chickens, if you want to know the details just ask and i'll post the story.. 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could see this coming and also the chciken shit approach from Boris Johnson,  instead of stopping the beach crowd madness witnessed over the past couple of weeks in the media, Johnson has choosen the easy option targetting the over 50's

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8586003/Make-young-socially-distance-locking-50s-Boris-Johnson-warned.html

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, duke007 said:

 

IMG_20200803_142337.jpg

 

Lady this is a VIRUS.

We have no cure.

Our only way to contain it is to stop giving it to each other.

 

 

Not that it will change her mind but she should read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/12/us/30-year-old-covid-party-death.html

A 30-year-old man who believed the coronavirus was a hoax and attended a “Covid party” died after being infected with the virus, according to the chief medical officer at a Texas hospital.

The official, Dr. Jane Appleby of Methodist Hospital in San Antonio, said the man died after deliberately attending a gathering with an infected person to test whether the coronavirus was real.

In her statements to news organizations, Dr. Appleby said the man had told his nurse that he attended a Covid party. Just before he died, she said the patient told his nurse: “I think I made a mistake. I thought this was a hoax, but it’s not.”

 

 

 

COVID is very real. I personally know 3 people who have died of it, 1 of it was a guy some of you might know if you met him in patts.. frequenter of lb scene but avoided forums like the plague named Mark.. 48 years old.. no pre existing conditions.. met him this february as my fav lb and his fav lb are friends so sometimes we'd get together. He was an investment banker. He's gone from COVID in less than a week.

 

And obviously she's a lunatic who only cares about fanning the flames.

 

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, BigTel said:

I could see this coming and also the chciken shit approach from Boris Johnson,  instead of stopping the beach crowd madness witnessed over the past couple of weeks in the media, Johnson has choosen the easy option targetting the over 50's

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8586003/Make-young-socially-distance-locking-50s-Boris-Johnson-warned.html

 

it wont happen... that crap was leaked on purpose so the Govt can use it as a soundboard. I think the term is ......."they through a dead cat on the table"

The UK would be bankrupt in a week....

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

SINGAPORE (Reuters) - Singapore will make some incoming travellers wear an electronic monitoring device to ensure that they comply with coronavirus quarantines as the city-state gradually reopens its borders, authorities said on Monday.

From August 11, the devices will be given to incoming travellers, including citizens and residents, from a select group of countries who will be allowed to isolate at home rather than at a state-appointed facility.

The city-state, which is also planning to give all residents a wearable virus-tracing dongle, has tough punishments for breach of its quarantine and social distancing rules.

Under the Infectious Diseases Act, punishments can be fines of up to S$10,000 ($7,272) or imprisonment of up to six months, or both. It has also revoked the work passes of foreigners who flouted the rules.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-singapore-wearable/singapore-to-make-travellers-wear-electronic-tags-to-enforce-quarantine-idUSKBN24Z0D9

Quote

Under the Infectious Diseases Act, punishments can be fines of up to S$10,000 ($7,272) or imprisonment of up to six months, or both.

If you want to take a chance flouting the rules, at least caning is not the punishment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

heroes.jpeg

MELBOURNE (Reuters) - Australia's second-biggest city, Melbourne, already under night curfew, announced fresh restrictions on industries including retail and construction on Monday in a bid to contain a resurgence of the coronavirus.

From Wednesday night, Melbourne, the capital of Victoria state, will close retail, some manufacturing and administrative businesses as part of a six-week lockdown.

Having already imposed the strictest restrictions on movement, Victoria declared a "state of disaster" on Sunday.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What say you, QG?

Good Covid-19 News From Italy...and Sweden

https://www.yahoo.com/news/good-covid-19-news-italy-053810746.html

(Bloomberg Opinion) -- The lifting of Covid-19 lockdowns around the world was never going to be easy. But as infections are flaring up from Spain to Australia, it’s worth noting that two of the hardest-hit countries at the pandemic’s peak — Italy and Sweden — are keeping the virus’s spread under control.

Daily confirmed cases in both nations are now averaging at around 200 each, well below their respective peaks, with no rebound in sight and no strain on hospitals. By contrast, the daily case count in Spain rose past 2,000 last week and France’s surpassed 1,000. This is by no means a second wave, but it’s worth asking what Italy and Sweden might be doing differently to manage the virus.

These countries once stood out for the wrong reasons. Italy was the first European country hit by a Covid-19 surge and the first to impose a draconian lockdown. Sweden took a more liberal and controversial approach — at odds even with other Nordic countries — that kept schools open and broadly stuck to recommendations on social distancing and self-isolation rather than forced quarantine.

While Italy’s lockdown arguably saved lives, it came late. Sweden’s, meanwhile, never came at all. On a per-capita basis, Italy’s death toll of more than 35,154 comes to about 600 per 1 million people, as does Sweden’s 5,743.

Still, in the current post-peak phase, with Italy gradually reopening its economy and Sweden maintaining its policy, both countries seem to have found their stride in living with the virus.

There’s no quick fix or perfect template for Covid-19, and everyone makes mistakes. Italy’s closure of schools came with a huge cost that brought little benefit, while Sweden’s botched handling of care homes for the elderly probably led to deaths that could have been avoided. But as we move into a new phase of this pandemic the two countries are clearly worth watching.

 

4090054957805b1c317a81da23f39a91.jpg

f7e1701b6fc1cdcdce6374e32ec46895.jpg

 

26d66dac2d4d01e454d059c80ad72e7e.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In an advice making in the 133rd anniversary of the Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy on Wednesday (August 5), Army chief General Apirat Kongsompong warned young cadets that people can recover from Covid-19, but not from “hatred of the nation”.

He was at the Nakhon Nayok-based academy with the prime minister and other top brass.While checking cadets’ uniforms, the general reminded them that the Covid-19 virus was not as scary as the illness of criticising one’s own country and that there was no vaccine against it.

Apirat told the press later that children should be taught to love their motherland, so they don’t grow up to be nation haters.

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30392474

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oops:

Why Sweden, pilloried by the whole world for refusing to lock down - with schools staying open and no face mask laws - may be having the last laugh as experts say Stockholm is close to achieving herd immunity

An official inquiry found almost half of Sweden’s Covid-19 deaths by end of June took place in elderly care homes concentrated in 40 of the country’s 290 municipalities.

Yet despite this failure, Prof Franks sees lockdown as ‘a very blunt instrument’. So when I asked this thoughtful British expert if his host nation’s strategy was a success, he paused before replying carefully: ‘Sweden accidentally did not get a lot wrong.’

 

This sounds a strange response when the country’s fatality rate is so many times higher than all three of its Scandinavian neighbours (although lower than Britain). 

But Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths. 

So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities, despite the care home carnage and initial high infection rates in some migrant communities.

 

The World Health Organisation warns the impact may be felt for decades. ‘Many countries that believed they were past the worst are grappling with new outbreaks,’ said director general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus. ‘Some that were less affected in the earliest weeks are now seeing escalating numbers of cases and deaths.’

Yet Sweden is seeing a sustained drop in cases, with some experts even suggesting it may be close to herd immunity in the capital Stockholm. 

The number of deaths, new cases and patients in intensive care has fallen dramatically.

On one key measure – percentage change in new confirmed cases over the past fortnight relative to the previous 14 days – Sweden is down more than a third. 

This contrasts with sharp rises in neighbouring Denmark, Finland and Norway, along with countries such as Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK.

'Lockdown is a blunt, unsustainable and harmful instrument over any prolonged period, especially damaging for younger populations, wider healthcare and the economy, with poorer people hit hardest. Closing down primary schools especially is a huge mistake.’

Meanwhile, the latest data suggests Sweden is suffering less severe economic trauma than most major European nations, while it has, almost uniquely among Western countries, kept schools open. 

 

So what is the truth about the bold but controversial Swedish stance that sets it apart from most other developed nations?

Tegnell openly told me that, like all global experts, he was ‘shooting in the dark’ when this new disease erupted, and he admitted that he expected to see spikes, especially when people return indoors as it gets colder in the autumn.

We spoke after the release of data showing that Sweden’s economy, which grew marginally in the first quarter of this year, shrunk more than at any point since the Second World War during the pandemic’s three-month peak. 

Yet it outperformed most key rivals. It fell 8.6 per cent over the second quarter compared with a 12 per cent fall across the Eurozone. Analysts fear the UK economy may shrink 20 per cent over this period.

‘It’s grim by any normal standards but compared with other parts of Europe they have done well,’ said David Oxley, senior Europe analyst at Capital Economics. Sweden’s big exporters are seeing profits decline smaller than anticipated while there are fewer bankruptcies than feared.

 

There are, of course, vociferous Swedish critics of this strategy designed to slow rather than stop the spread of coronavirus, including 25 academics who wrote to an American newspaper saying it led to ‘death, grief and suffering’.

There has been fury from people whose relatives died in the care home fiasco. And I came across eight noisy protesters outside a Tegnell press conference demanding the imposition of face masks. 

Nicholas Aylott, a political scientist at Sodertorn University, said the approach adopted under a centre-Left coalition government confused the opposition. ‘The Right has been discomforted by the Left’s discovery of libertarianism,’ he said.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Annat said:

Covid has ripped the scene apart - how many bars will be still standing at Xmas.

wrong BIg Trev.... Covid itself ripped nothing apart. The knee-jerk overreaction by the Media, Government and others ripped everything apart. And still is continuing to do so.

Too high a price has been paid and is still the tip of the iceberg. If Covid had been ignored and allowed to do what nature intended it to, all would have been continuing as normal, i.e as before the new abnormal.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, blind boy grunt said:

wrong BIg Trev.... Covid itself ripped nothing apart. The knee-jerk overreaction by the Media, Government and others ripped everything apart. And still is continuing to do so.

Too high a price has been paid and is still the tip of the iceberg. If Covid had been ignored and allowed to do what nature intended it to, all would have been continuing as normal, i.e as before the new abnormal.

“I underestimated this one — how fast it would spread. My mistake was to think it was like SARS, which was pretty limited in scope. Or that it was like influenza. But it’s neither.”

A legendary virus hunter who was part of the teams which identified both Ebola and HIV nearly died from covid. He "underestimated" it because it does not behave like any known pathogen. 

“It hit me like a bus. Extreme exhaustion, like every cell in your body is tired. And my scalp was very sensitive — it hurt if Heidi touched it. That’s a neurological symptom."


Dr. Michael Ryan, an infectious disease specialist who heads the WHO's covid team, said today:

"This virus is proving exceptionally difficult to stop. It's difficult to recognise, it's difficult to distinguish between it and other syndromes unless you have adequate and immediate testing. You've seen that now in countries with influenza and with COVID at the same time. So this is not an easy virus either to detect or to stop."

What nature "intended" the coronavirus to do is kill humans. If ignored it will kill humans. It is at least 10 times deadlier than the most recent influenza pandemic in 2009.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, LbDabbler said:

What nature "intended" the coronavirus to do is kill humans. If ignored it will kill humans. It is at least 10 times deadlier than the most recent influenza pandemic in 2009.

yes of course, but even with all the masks, lockdown hoo-hah...isn't it still doing that anyway [killing people]?. Most flu-type virus are designed to either affect the old or sick and hopefully give future immunity to the young.

Lockdown's etc are just delaying the whole thing. And please don't have a go at me for that comment above, it's not hard-hearted, just true. I'm in my 70's now so i guess a prime target, but hey-ho... it's the price that has to be paid... [maybe]... but i certainly don't believe that young people with families should now be going hungry  and out of work with little future, just to protect the ones like me, that have already lived their lives..

Just be thankful that Ebola wasn't a good traveler.

But, back to Josh... he was recently very helpful to me although i didn't really know him. I wish him well with whatever he does in the future.

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, blind boy grunt said:

wrong BIg Trev.... Covid itself ripped nothing apart. The knee-jerk overreaction by the Media, Government and others ripped everything apart. And still is continuing to do so.

Too high a price has been paid and is still the tip of the iceberg. If Covid had been ignored and allowed to do what nature intended it to, all would have been continuing as normal, i.e as before the new abnormal.

Little John

These remarks surprise me, I will not delay you by going on about how wrong you are, you will be rushing to next meeting of the Flat Earth Society

Big T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a good post from Sciencealert.com. So for those who don't believe masks work - you can try this experiment yourself to see what happens.

Quote

Simple New Experiment Reveals Which Face Masks Are Best at Blocking Droplets

 
10 AUGUST 2020

We know that by wearing masks, we can help reduce the transmission of COVID-19, and we know that not every type of face mask is equally good at blocking viral droplets when we cough, sneeze, talk – or even simply breathe. But how can we really know for sure?

Aside from simply believing manufacturers' claims, if you wanted to somehow test different masks against one another to compare how much protection they offer in the real world, how would you go about it?

New research from scientists at Duke University shows you don't actually need all that much to devise a test. In a proof-of-concept study, they cobbled together a simple, low-cost laser device, and conducted an experiment comparing 14 different types of masks and face coverings.

010-mask-comparison-2.jpg

The masks tested. (Fischer et al., Science Advances, 2020)

"The fundamental question is, how well does a specific mask type prevent droplets from spreading," lead researcher and molecular imaging specialist Martin Fischer says in a press Q&A.

The question is particularly relevant in the coronavirus pandemic, given many people have taken to buying fabric masks online, or making their own masks at home.

While the general consensus from experts is that all of these kinds of loose-fitting masks should help reduce COVID-19 transmission – which is why face coverings are mandated in many places around the world right now – most of the mask testing to date has been done on things like surgical masks and fitted N95 masks, and not on loose fabric masks or face coverings.

"Surgical masks are commonly worn by medical personnel and have received a fair amount of testing in clinical settings," Fischer says.

"But as far as we know, there was no quick, easy, and cost-effective way to demonstrate the effectiveness of such a wide variety of other mask types."

To fill that void, Fischer and his team devised an easy-to-make, inexpensive laser experiment, which can be used to test how different kinds of masks block tiny droplets that come out of people's mouths when they speak.

In the experimental setup, a lens turns an optical laser into a sheet of light. This light sheet, shone through a dark enclosure (made up of cardboard sheets and duct tape), reveals when droplets pass through it, with the results being filmed by a mobile phone camera.

In experiments, people would speak toward the sheet of light, saying the phrase "Stay healthy, people", while wearing 14 different kinds of face masks and coverings.

"We confirmed that when people speak, small droplets get expelled, so disease can be spread by talking, without coughing or sneezing," Fischer says.

"We could also see that some face coverings performed much better than others in blocking expelled particles."

010-mask-comparison-3.jpg

 

The results showed that fitted N95 masks blocked the greatest amount of droplets released by the person speaking, followed by surgical masks, then masks made with polypropylene.

However, all sorts of other masks, including cotton masks and even knitted ones, showed an ability to block droplets, as did a valved version of the N95 mask, which didn't score as well as the fitted N95 mask due to its exhaust valve.

"These valves are closed when breathing in, but can open when speaking, hence letting out unfiltered air," Fischer says.

"In other words, they do a great job of protecting the wearer from the outside environment, but a bad job of protecting others from the wearer, and it is the second role that is the important one to reduce COVID-19 spread."

Most surprising, however, were the results at the bottom of the table. In terms of blocking droplets, bandanas were among the less effective, but worst of all is wearing a neck fleece, which the researchers found is actually worse than not wearing any kind of facial covering.

010-mask-comparison-4.jpg

A schematic of the experimental setup. (Fischer et al., Science Advances, 2020)

That sounds counter-intuitive – and likely warrants further examination – but the researchers think the neck fleece actually makes droplets proliferate in the air.

"Common sense would dictate that wearing anything is better than wearing nothing – this was not the case here," Fischer says.

"We observed that the number of droplets increased when the speaker put on the neck fleece. We believe that the material of our fleece breaks down large droplets emitted during speaking into several smaller ones. This could make wearing such a mask counterproductive, since smaller droplets have an easier time being carried away by air currents and endangering nearby persons."

Of course, the researchers are eager to emphasise that the focus of the study is actually the low-cost testing method they developed, not their own test results of which masks are the most and least effective – as the same kind of testing could be conducted more robustly and more systematically than in the proof-of-concept study here.

That said, their own testing is certainly food for thought, highlighting again that not every mask is equal, and if you really want to protect other people and help to reduce the spread of coronavirus, you really need to think about what you're putting on your face.

The findings are reported in Science Advances.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

you will be rushing to next meeting of the Flat Earth Society... well you won't be rushing anywhere Big T... are you allowed by your betters to leave the house yet?

But, bloody hell Annat!....you have been reading my mind.. [don't go in there too deeply though, it can be murky waters] I had the idea of either joining the Flat Earth bunch, or alternatively taking up cricket instead.. Both anachronisms really.... :yes:

Seven, seven, Seven.... if you are reading this....please find me a cheap place anywhere in Scandi, or Holland.... i really need to live somewhere where people are no longer scared of their shadows in the dark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/9/2020 at 4:11 PM, seven said:

Lockdown is a blunt, unsustainable and harmful instrument over any prolonged period, especially damaging for younger populations, wider healthcare and the economy, with poorer people hit hardest.

personally I agree and have always felt this way, it's just forestalling the inevitable. What they SHOULD be doing is ramping up medical supplies and expanding hospitals to make new pandemic wings. It ain't gonna be the last one of that I'm sure. Fine, it "goes away", use the wings for storage of medical supplies. Masks and gowns, etc. don't spoil. The damage done to economies and the fall out from that will be worse than the deaths methinks.  It's the new Dark Ages.  Lockdowns, etc. are just going to PROLONG all this devastating every nation on the planet. Imagine the ones that have just lately become developing nations after decades of poverty, deaths from bad water, disease, no medical infrastructure, etc.  Gonna plunge these poor folks right back into the 40s. (As if Africa has not already been hit HARD by AIDS and ebola, along with crazy military dictators).

Unless a vaccine or vaccines are developed that have stunning positive results, I fear we will be looking at watching the sawtooth graphs edging up, skyrocketing then slowly coming down but always more than before...for a LONG TIME.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...