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Not sure when we'll see Trump or Boris on peoples arms, but why not. Mr Tegnell has rock star status here now. Its not something he wanted though. He's very low key and the typical dry scientist type of guy.

'Face' of Sweden's virus response immortalised in tattoo

https://www.yahoo.com/news/face-swedens-virus-response-immortalised-tattoo-150750435.html

 

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37 minutes ago, seven said:

Swedish official Anders Tegnell says 'herd immunity' in Sweden might be a few weeks away

Anders Tegnell, chief epidemiologist at Sweden’s Public Health Agency – the nation's top infectious disease official and architect of Sweden's coronavirus response –denied that "herd immunity" formed the central thrust of Sweden's containment plan, in an interview with USA TODAY. Yet he also said the country may be starting to see the impact of "herd immunity."

Tegnell: We are doing two major investigations. We may have those results this week or a bit later in May. We know from modeling and some data we have already – these data are a little uncertain – that we probably had a transmission peak in Stockholm a couple of weeks ago, which means that we are probably hitting the peak of infections right about now. We think that up to 25% of people in Stockholm have been exposed to coronavirus and are possibly immune. A recent survey from one of our hospitals in Stockholm found that 27% of staff there are immune. We think that most of those are immune from transmission in society, not the workplace. We could reach herd immunity in Stockholm within a matter of weeks. 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/04/28/coronavirus-covid-19-sweden-anders-tegnell-herd-immunity/3031536001/

 

That sounds promising - herd immunity won't be that protective until around 70-80% of the population become immune. However if you have around 50% or slightly more immune, it makes preventing the swamping of hospital resources easier.

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British Airways sacked 25,000 staff and said they would take years to recover , Lufthansa going bust as we speak

They also mention the travel restrictions in place and being drafted will kill the Airlines 

UK is planning to quarantine ALL incoming passengers, whether you have symptoms or not for 2 weeks from May or big fine.....this is the plan

 

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We are in a world of mere rumors and speculation about virtually everything about the Coronavirus in the USA.  There is an incentive to undercount the fatalities so that there is justification for business operations to start up again.  What we could do in the USA is to institute rent, mortgage, and debt freezes, and payment of a universal basic income to all citizens until a vaccine developed.  However, because we believe in the Divine Right of Capital that will never happen in the USA.  Therefore, the subsistence workers must be put back to work to keep the engines of business activity going.  

Everyone knows how to truly measure the number of deaths from a pandemic or other event like war or famine.  You take the historical mortality rate for a region for a period of time, i.e. USA January thru April for last five years, and compare that to the death rate for USA Jan thru April 2020. The difference between the expected mortality rate due to historical data and the actual mortality rate, is the actual excess mortality rate caused by the event....in this case the coronavirus pandemic. Nobody wants to look at this number because it shows that the we are undercounting the actual mortality rate due to this pandemic in the western nations by at least 50%.  Thus, in the USA as of today the official death toll due attributable to Covid19 is about 60K, however, using mortality tables it is probably 100K.  As business gets back to business as usual in my country, the pressure to continue to under report will continue to grow, and the deaths of hundreds of thousands will  be willfully accounted and justified as a "cost of doing business".

All you have to do is look at Ecuador and Brazil, and realize that the worldwide difference between deaths attributed to Covid19 and the actual numbers will be on a magnitude of 1:10. 

My central observation is that during the European plagues, and the 1918 Flu pandemic, life still had to go on, farmers had to farm, sailors continued to sail, and whores continued to Ho because there was no cure, or any prospect of a cure.  So just like in times past when people knew they were essentially powerless to do anything to slow the spread and protect themselves from a deadly disease, my country, the USA has decided it is powerless, or at least unwilling, to do what countries like south Korea and New Zealand did to arrest the disease.  

In short, I will be wearing mask and gloves whenever I leave home and will not be getting on a plane anywhere until a vaccine is developed and proven to work.  That is what we are left with at this point.

 

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I'm a bit confused how herd immunity is achieved. Obviously you don't expose the very old and immune compromised to the virus or you will have many serious illnesses and deaths. I'm going to guess that with 2462 deaths in Sweden the herd isn't very big or at least very old. Oh well hope it all works out.

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Yay for Sweden which showed the world that this Covid hysteria is just that, hysteria. 
I could not be any less afraid of THE VIRUS. I think we are being scammed. 
Yeah, that’s your truly in the silly mask. I wrote “this is bullshit” on the stupid thing to show what I think of all this hysteria. 

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1 hour ago, xyzzy said:

I'm a bit confused how herd immunity is achieved. Obviously you don't expose the very old and immune compromised to the virus or you will have many serious illnesses and deaths. I'm going to guess that with 2462 deaths in Sweden the herd isn't very big or at least very old. Oh well hope it all works out.

Heres a good piece about it. All countries strive for immunity, be it vaccine or infected citizens, it's just a matter of how soon we should try to achieve it. Each country have their own resources and abilities to fight it. Putting a lid on it , i e lockdown, might come back to haunt you. Theres also the civil rights aspect. Basically the whole world dismantled democracy in a few days and became totalitarian states.  Now that is dangerous.

Honestly , I wouldn't want to be in Finland when the true russian numbers are official.

We fucked up with the elderly care, no doubt about that. Herd immunity is about people infected, not dead (2462).

"There's been a lot of misunderstanding," Ann Linde said. "We have pretty much the same goals as every other government ... And as we have always said, we are perfectly ready to go with more binding regulations if the population does not follow."
She said the fairly high death toll was "certainly not part of the plan" and said the high number of care home deaths was "one area where we have failed."
"And as long as the healthcare system reasonably can cope with and give good care to the ones that need care, it's not clear that having the cases later in time is better."
"The truth is that no one, no one in Sweden, no one elsewhere either, knows what the best strategy is. Time will tell."

 

Another piece. I happen to trust the WHO. I know the right wingers/FoxNews/Trumpers hate their guts so bad the orange

assclown cancelled the US financial support to the organisation and advised his people to inject/drink disinfectants.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/who-lauds-sweden-as-model-for-resisting-coronavirus-lockdown/

Dr. Mike Ryan, the WHO’s top emergencies expert, said Wednesday there are “lessons to be learned” from the Scandinavian nation, which has largely relied on citizens to self-regulate.

“I think there’s a perception out that Sweden has not put in control measures and just has allowed the disease to spread,” Ryan told reporters. “Nothing can be further from the truth.”

 

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1 hour ago, strocube said:

Yay for Sweden which showed the world that this Covid hysteria is just that, hysteria.

Hmm, thanks , I guess. :biggrin:

 Its real, strocube, and you and I  are both immune. You had yours in Vietnam, I had mine in Thailand i December. 

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37 minutes ago, seven said:

Hmm, thanks , I guess. :biggrin:

 Its real, strocube, and you and I  are both immune. You had yours in Vietnam, I had mine in Thailand i December. 

Never said it wasn’t real; just that it’s being way overblown. The flu is real . . . It also looks to me that there are various nefarious agendas behind the global lockdown. 
Sweden did not wreck their economy and put their people through hell for the fucking flu. Millions did not die. This puts the lie to the entire FEAR NARRATIVE. 

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16 hours ago, seven said:

Heres a good piece about it. All countries strive for immunity, be it vaccine or infected citizens, it's just a matter of how soon we should try to achieve it. Each country have their own resources and abilities to fight it. Putting a lid on it , i e lockdown, might come back to haunt you. Theres also the civil rights aspect. Basically the whole world dismantled democracy in a few days and became totalitarian states.  Now that is dangerous.

Honestly , I wouldn't want to be in Finland when the true russian numbers are official.

We fucked up with the elderly care, no doubt about that. Herd immunity is about people infected, not dead (2462).

"There's been a lot of misunderstanding," Ann Linde said. "We have pretty much the same goals as every other government ... And as we have always said, we are perfectly ready to go with more binding regulations if the population does not follow."
She said the fairly high death toll was "certainly not part of the plan" and said the high number of care home deaths was "one area where we have failed."
"And as long as the healthcare system reasonably can cope with and give good care to the ones that need care, it's not clear that having the cases later in time is better."
"The truth is that no one, no one in Sweden, no one elsewhere either, knows what the best strategy is. Time will tell."

 

Another piece. I happen to trust the WHO. I know the right wingers/FoxNews/Trumpers hate their guts so bad the orange

assclown cancelled the US financial support to the organisation and advised his people to inject/drink disinfectants.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/who-lauds-sweden-as-model-for-resisting-coronavirus-lockdown/

Dr. Mike Ryan, the WHO’s top emergencies expert, said Wednesday there are “lessons to be learned” from the Scandinavian nation, which has largely relied on citizens to self-regulate.

“I think there’s a perception out that Sweden has not put in control measures and just has allowed the disease to spread,” Ryan told reporters. “Nothing can be further from the truth.”

 

  Sorry but I can't wrap my head around herd immunity. There was a "secret" report leaked from Oxford in the early days of the UK spread claiming 50% of the population had already had the virus and had herd immunity. My simple question is why weren't the Emergency Rooms and ICU beds not overwhelmed by at least the elderly and immune compromised if 50% had the virus. This was after all supposedly before anyone even knew much about the virus.  

  So I feel the same way about Sweden. If Sweden is developing herd immunity why is the the medical system not overwhelmed. If two million of Sweden's 10 million people had contracted the virus, even over several months, the hospitals would be overrun. 

  New York City did a modest amount of antibody testing, with a lot of emphases on first responders, and came up with 25%. This in a city that is ravaged by the virus with many coming in direct contact with the sick. I could be completely wrong but I don't believe in herd immunity with anything short of a vaccine. 

  There is quite a bit of discussion in the US about how long immunity will last.

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3 hours ago, strocube said:

Never said it wasn’t real; just that it’s being way overblown. The flu is real . . . It also looks to me that there are various nefarious agendas behind the global lockdown. 

IMO you think there are nefarious agendas behind most everything.

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6 hours ago, strocube said:

Never said it wasn’t real; just that it’s being way overblown. The flu is real . . . It also looks to me that there are various nefarious agendas behind the global lockdown. 
Sweden did not wreck their economy and put their people through hell for the fucking flu. Millions did not die. This puts the lie to the entire FEAR NARRATIVE. 

What is the nefarious global agenda for Russia and the African countries locking down? Russia's case especially as Putin had to delay the referendum to make him President for life. With the rising deaths in Moscow and many other parts of Russia his popularity is decreasing, it was against his interests to implement the "fake" lockdown. You seem to forget that in past pandemics, the quarantine and social distancing, mask wearing (during the Spanish Flu), were all done too, but not on a global scale, but as each country got hit. Were those global conspiracies?

 

 

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8 hours ago, seven said:

And as long as the healthcare system reasonably can cope with and give good care to the ones that need care, it's not clear that having the cases later in time is better."

This would certainly be true if there was no hope for a vaccine.

But then on the OTOH even a vaccine doesn't materialise, I suppose those who have the financial and emotional ability to severely restrict contact with people for the next year would be better off in countries such as Sweden where more people have already been infected, with the infected either immune (if one can be immune) or already dead. 

I think the world is lucky that Sweden volunteered for an experiment which will shed light on this subject.

 

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Sad to read of the increase in the number of suicides happening in Thailand right now. I am sure it will be the same in other countries as the economies are dragged down. 

Part of the problem in a lot of countries is the disparity of incomes where those at the top can ride this thing out, but those at the bottom have no means of easily getting through it. 

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Well, it looks like it's coming: the US will be going for actions to punish China for the COVID-19 crisis. As reported by the Washington Post April 30, 2020.

One thing to note is that civil lawsuits are being considered as part of the strategy - and of course in those kinds of law suits, the lawyers will get at least 50% of the damage awards, if they are successful.

You can likely expect this to ramp up quickly before serious campaigning starts for the elections in November.

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On 4/30/2020 at 12:42 PM, strocube said:

 

FWIW the two doctors in the video were censured, by whoever sanctions doctors, just hours after this disinformation played on Fox News for the bullshit they were spreading. I'm sure you can make a conspiracy out of that. Fox News certainly made a conspiracy out of it.

If you go to snopes.com and look up Bill Gates and India you will find that the bullshit you posted about Bill Gates and vaccinations in India is total horse shit.

You remind me of Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory. Except he actually got one right. Why can't you post the crap in the conspiracy theory thread. That's where it belongs if someone is actually foolish enough to bother to post.

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