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How do the bars survive?


bumblebee

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I am staying very close to what was one of, if not the, most popular ladyboy bars in its prime, say 5 to 6 years ago and  it was the place to be for many lb lovers.  Now when I pass it appears to be lucky to have 1 or 2 customers at any given time...if even that.  
 

And this is the story we hear and observe across the scene, bars look relatively empty when guys are passing.  No doubt there are customer surges at certain times of the night in some venues, but on the whole the only time the bars are rocking is on a party night.  Maybe it’s a case of too many bars popping up catering to our particular niche market and not enough custom to spread amongst them all.  
 

But I find myself wondering how much longer can some of these bars survive without constant, steady business.  

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That's what I wonder everytime I go to los now. The first time, a few years back the bars had a fairly steady flow of customers. The last 3-4 years they seem to be empty a lot of the time.

It's not just the lb bars. There are a lot of gg bars on the quieter sois that are empty or just have one or two older regulars in the evening.

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The ladyman bars I've peered into over recent times are indeed very quiet, or empty, besides staff.

The ones with a farang backer usually get the larger following due to forum presence and also financial backing, which can cover the lean times, but that's no guarantee of customers on non-party nights. Having said that, the busiest bar by far I have seen recently was TJ's on the Wednesday just gone. I'm pretty sure that must've been an exception on the night as it had a party feel but no party. Pure luck perhaps, but many known faces in attendance.

It is a wonder how many survive.

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Sensations BB? i have heard so many people say the same as you... but if you read the reports it's buzzing every night!

The Roof? sooner that disaster goes the better... has been bleeding cash since it opened. Now reduced to a [non-ladyboy related] advert in Pattaya's dodgiest local rag .  i confess though i've never been there and will never go, to me it looks as though one is sitting in the Habitat store back in the 70's.

Many will fail during the next close season especially if the high season is bad too. The survivors will be places like Fantasy and TJs. The  foreigner promoted bars have no other place to advertise really but LBP.  and who are they going to advertise to?   fact is the mongers are budgeting nowadays... some not even coming. The amount that do will not keep the bars going.

You're right... dodgy party's are helping to save the day... i mean for god's sake... Sweethearts?... a party for a cashier who has been there 2 months! come on! there will be one for the cleaner next.

Mind you i suppose that one could say the same about the Meet and Greets at Katty. Although the idea behind them was at least original.

Time for a natural cull.

i probably saw more than anyone other than Quinn how awful it was for jomtien and the Katty this year... although thankfully things are improving. honestly i don't know how Emmy survived but bless her she did.

 Pattaya demographics are changing... the bars have to adapt or die. Time to extract the heads from the sand, but how and what to do i dont know, and probably neither do they.... 

but other than Katty. and Joy at Fantasy ..don't really care to be honest. Times are changing.

 

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Going by what I have been reading and hearing from people who have been on the ground recently I am seriously thinking of cutting my next trip down from 29 nights to 22 nights and have an extra 'jolly' in Benidorm (where I am currently) instead. :yes:

Thanks to Pigdoggg who suggested I make 4 seperate 'weekly' bookings of 7,7,7 & 8 nights (instead of a full 29 nights) with Booking.com it will be so easy to cancel one of them (without costing me a penny) B)

And yes it does seem to amaze me how these bars seem to be 'rocking' and busy most nights when in reality they are not :wink:

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1 hour ago, blind boy grunt said:

Sensations BB?

That’s the one BBG, albeit there are a couple of guys in there playing pool as I type, well it is Saturday night.  But it will be interesting to see if things pick up In general come the traditional high season.   With the party week in November and the WVB the previous years attracting quite a large contingent of lb lovers, the high season for our scene is now spread over two time periods,  November and Xmas/ New Year.  So there may not be the numbers this HS to fill the bars to the extent of say 7 or 8 years or so back when almost anybody and everybody from the scene descended on Los for the festivities if they could manage it.  

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Some quick observations...............

The town feels emptier than at the same time last year.   Additionally the ratio of mongers to total visitors has decreased.  My girlfriend works at a busy massage shop and there are more women customers than men. 

Obviously the strong baht against all monger currencies has an affect.  I guess that is mitigated to some degree by more affordable airfare than years ago.

Thirty years ago, there was not a general awareness of how cheap and user friendly the Pattaya sex experience was.   The internet changed all that.  But there's not that many people nowadays that are all of a sudden aware of what happens in Pattaya.  

It amazes that ladyboy barowners don't take advantage of the free advertising potential of all the forums.  Put more effort in bigger forums of course but there are there are some guys who only read one of the less populated forums.  It's free.   Why in the world would you not take advantage of free advertising?

There are a handful of photographic hobbyists who enjoy the ladyboy shoot niche. These guys are happy to take nice pics, send them to the owner so he can post them on the forums and Facebook.   Not sure why barowners aren't approaching these guys.  

Beyond advertising, of course bars have to give the customer a good experience.  TJ's seems busy.  It's hard for me to evaluate Katty Bar cause if just a few guys beyond the regulars shows up it seems much busier than usual .  The other bars I rarely go to.  I figure some random ladyboy is just going to pester me for drinks.  But there might be another bar that appeals to me but it's just off my radar.  I mean I know they exist but I don't hear anything about them.   I suppose truth be told, I am not really the type of guy who spends big money.  OTOH, I know lots of guys, and when they're in town I suggest the bars that I like, So for example, Katty Bar would go out of business if they depended on guys like me. But since they treat me extremely well there I bring other guys who buy those things called ladydrinks and who sometimes barfine.   

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18 minutes ago, Pdoggg said:

Bud is more expensive than Heineken or Amstel???  People actually drink Bud there?

They seem to really like one football club.  :biggrin:

I drink draught Amstel, happy hour prices are €1.5 a pint which equates to £10 for 7 pints ... Cheap as chips  B)

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2 minutes ago, Pdoggg said:

No, they're mugs, I guess 12 ounces? Or could be 10, not really sure what the glasses hold.

They also have pitchers fro 2 USD but not sure how many pints in a pitcher.

I am guessing that you can get draught beer for 55 baht (half pint) in a few bars in Pattaya, that would cost 770 baht aka nearly £20.... most other bars would cost a lot more..... so not exactly as cheap as it used to be with the current exchange rates <_<

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So how DO the bars survive?

I suppose there are some situations where a farang is financing a bar for his girlfriend by paying the key money and maybe even the rent so the Thai barowner just needs to have positive cash flow rather than an actual profit.  Would be cheaper to just give the girl money but some farangs like the idea of owning a bar.  Guess if you own a bar you get your own special table and can pick the music you want to hear.

Then I guess there are situations where the barowner also rents out upstairs rooms and if the rooms cover the total rent then one way to look at it (incorrectly) is that the bar is rent free.

I also think there is a trend towards freelance hostess staff with perhaps the the cashier being the only salaried staff.    I guess this works best if your primary concern is not losing money as opposed to making money which makes good sense in an economic downturn.   Of course, this makes it more difficult to force the staff to show up every day so if for example there is a big morlam and all the ladyboys go to the morlam then there are no staff available for customers.  (I would imagine that the big morlam held on December 5th probably had a 1000 ladyboys in the audience). One night at Katty Bar there was no staff except for Teya which was just fine with me but then my buddy wanted to barfine Teya so she had to call Emmy who appeared sleepy eyed from upstairs. 

In the massage business it is standard that the girls are not salaried and just get a cut of the massage price plus tips.  So where my girlfriend works there is no salary, just a cut and tips and she still has to clean the joint one day a week.   When she operated her own beach massage place, her workers were expected to set up and break down the place every day with her and share the non massage workload even though they weren't on salary.

Except for the most successful operations the farang barowner is just buying a job.  He is forced to be on premises most of the time unless he has a honest cashier.  And if he has an outgoing personality that draws in customers then he must be at the bar most of the time to entertain them which probably gets old quick.

I guess there will be a Darwinian shakeout, the strong will survive and  perhaps rents will come down creating a more positive business environment.  But it seems the Chaiyapoon/Treetown area is on an upswing so even in bad times there are areas that are prospering.

 

 

 

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Howdy boys, my 2 cents worth if I may:   The OP mentioned he hardly ever sees customers (at Sensations, I presume) anymore, but he could have usefully added that he also hardly sees any ladyboys there anymore.  And therein lies the problem: No ladyboys, the customers dont come.  No customers, the ladyboys quit.  Vicious circle.

The way I see it, the kind of small bars as we became used to enjoy with the contented farang owner, cheap liquor and more young whores than you could go through at 300 baht barfine a pop are going the way of the dodo.  Demographics, economic growth and the internet changed that.  Demographics and economic growth on the supply side: fewer Thai youths coming of age, more educated and with income alternatives to becoming bar-indented prostitutes.  The internet on the demand side: more foreigners learning about Thailand and about ladyboys and joining the legions of sex tourists.  And when supply (of bargirls) falls and demand (from mongers) grows, markets adjust by raising prices and/or reducing quantities transacted.  The latter applies to the growing number of smaller bars that find themselves loosing customers because they lost staff.  It's NOT the "low season" or the "strong baht,"  since the big gogo bars in Walking Street and Buakhao with many girls on staff seem to be thriving.

So, to answer the OP’s question:  Many of the little bars from back when the scene peaked 10-15 years ago are still open only because of INERTIA but one by one they are closing. That’s inevitable and Sensations wont be around much longer unless Paeng finds herself another sugar daddy.

The new bar business model is the Walking Street bars where girls can make more money pushing ladydrinks to tourists than sucking punters’ cocks, while the bar owners can sell more drinks and at higher prices with the girls in the bar than if they leave.  Hence the 1000+ baht barfines and the 3000+ baht to do the deed and the growing numbers of non-barfinable GGs which only 5 years ago would be inadmissible.  It’s only going to get worse.

The ladyboys situation is a little better as it’s still easy to find them on the cheap under 25 in bars (all but impossible with the GGs now) but the scene clearly peaked 5 or 6 years ago (for GGs it had peaked much earlier, possibly in the early 2000s).  I remember in 2013 counting over 30 ladyboys at Sensations with many (not all) I deemed fuckable.  Now if you spot 2 or 3 it will be a miracle and they will be late 20s-early 30s.  Last time I was there I ended up negotiating with the GG cashier to let me buttfuck her.  And you know what?  I was glad I did.

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My opinion.....

 There are way to many bars for the customer to choose from  so the right marketing on  this forum and not that crappy one ( B) ) and a draw card will get the punter in . We all have our fav bar for the daily hangout and the fav for the nights entertainment, I realy can't see that changing in the future 

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16 hours ago, Rom said:

The OP mentioned he hardly ever sees customers (at Sensations, I presume) anymore, but he could have usefully added that he also hardly sees any ladyboys there anymore.  And therein lies the problem: No ladyboys, the customers dont come.  No customers, the ladyboys quit.  Vicious circle.

Looked liked there were 3 there earlier this when I passed.  Have seen more at times, maybe up to 6 or 7 at various times.  I have been up in TJs twice in the past week, and have noticed some guys there both times, and I have seen them there on various other nights also.   So some bars are maintaining a steady stream of regular returnees while others are slipping off the radar from what I am observing on the ground.  

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21 hours ago, duke007 said:

Yes I am mate thanx, and yesterday's result at the Etihad certainly made it even better :yahoo:... and I have no doubt put a smile on your boatrace too :wink:

indeed Duke, good results for you and us, well done  Man Utd. i really could do without the totally useless world club thing coming soon though...

Actually while i'm here Duke, i was thinking about you recently, "why?" you no doubt ask..... well i'll tell you. 

You're from Stockport aren't you? Funnily enough i used to work in Hannover back in the Early 80s with a guy from Stockport. His name was Steve. The worst snorer i have ever heard but that's a bit besides the point. As is most of this post i guess but sometimes it's good to ramble on. 

So.. do you know Steve? i reckon that you probably do as there are possibly very few people that live in Stockport, or are at least willing to admit to it!
I'm sure that you must know him.... I've seen Coronation Street... every body knows everyone in that part of the world.

Some of you American chaps reading this are possibly baffled... "corrie st?.  what the hell is that?" well.... i'll help you here... it's an english TV soap opera... been playing since before Kennedy was shot, or just after. To help you visualise it...just think "Deliverance" in half-hour episodes but without the Banjo's.

It used to be based around a pub called the Queen VIc or something, owned by 'Dirty Den' and his Missus Ena Sharples.

You guys are probably wondering what i'm talking about... don't worry, so am I. Just a bit of English culture for you on a pretty nippy Thailand morning. I confess though sometimes my memory goes a bit haywire. Corrie was never the same after Albert Tatlock shot J.R.
Anyway to get back on topic before the Moddy fellows shout at me, Lady drinks! i'm pretty sure that Dirty Den once bought Elsie Tanner one in the 'Rover's Vic' or whatever the pub was called... I'm still convinced that he was trying to get in her pants.

And Ladyboys... must admit that i was never very sure about  Victoria Principal... looks too much like 'lily'.

:yes:

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Look guys, Pattaya has been changing and the type of people visiting there is changing.  Its been changing for at least 10 years, maybe more.  Kind of like some of the Gulf states trying to wean themselves off oil sales for its economies, Pattaya is trying to wean itself off a sex tourists economy.  Pussy and LB cock will always be on the menu in Pattaya.  Its just that things are "evolving".  If my life were different and if I were a younger, I am certain i would try and monger in different places.  Having said that, Thailand is still probably the easiest, most laid back and has the best infrastructure for mongering.

I would love to know what the monthly "nut" or overhead is to some of these LB bars.  I had a couple of miscreant buddies I know took a little trip down Pattayaway last month and my two buddies ended up drinking and buying a lot of lady drinks there.  I know that made their night but did it make their half week??  Their week??  BTW it was Katty Bar they visited.

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On 12/7/2019 at 9:50 PM, Pdoggg said:

But it seems the Chaiyapoon/Treetown area is on an upswing

There are a couple of big indoor bars at Treetown. One is closed and the Beer Hubb (lots of real ale, etc $$$) doesn't seem that busy. Much of the rest of Treetown seems busy but the two big expensive bars not so much. 

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On 12/9/2019 at 3:43 AM, blind boy grunt said:

  I've seen Coronation Street... every body knows everyone in that part of the world.

Some of you American chaps reading this are possibly baffled... "corrie st?.  what the hell is that?" well.... i'll help you here... it's an english TV soap opera... been playing since before Kennedy was shot, or just after. To help you visualise it...just think "Deliverance" in half-hour episodes but without the Banjo's.

It used to be based around a pub called the Queen VIc or something, owned by 'Dirty Den' and his Missus Ena Sharples.

You guys are probably wondering what i'm talking about... don't worry, so am I. Just a bit of English culture for you on a pretty nippy Thailand morning. I confess though sometimes my memory goes a bit haywire. Corrie was never the same after Albert Tatlock shot J.R.
Anyway to get back on topic before the Moddy fellows shout at me, Lady drinks! i'm pretty sure that Dirty Den once bought Elsie Tanner one in the 'Rover's Vic' or whatever the pub was called... I'm still convinced that he was trying to get in her pants.

I reckon having an Emmy and Teya behind the bar in the Rover's Return or the Queen Vic would send viewing figures through the roof! :biggrin:

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