A not-so-brief history of Ladyboy Forums

[JaiDee]

I saw a similar thread on the LB-69 forum, so I wanted to start one here as well regarding the history of these forums we all like to read. Bumblebee made some good points there and I'd like to add in my thoughts a little bit on this thread here as well.

10 years ago there were exactly 2 places on the internet where you could discuss the subject of ladyboys; one was behind a pay wall at Ladyboy-Ladyboy, so it wasn't overly popular just for that reason; the only people who could see it had to be paying members of the website. The other place was called ''Questionable Girls of Thailand'' and was a Yahoo group. More people probably read that one, but because it was a Yahoo group the layout was kind of funky and not very easy to follow. Great name though, huh?

In the summer of 2001 the AsianTS website launched. An idea was hatched to put a forum on the tour, the free area, rather than inside behind the pay wall like LB-LB. At first it was a rough go, as I was literally the only poster; mostly chatting about personal experiences from trips to Bangkok and Pattaya, I would float conversations out there daily hoping upon hope to get a few more people to chime in. That took a while; even well into 2002 there was only a couple dozen people at most who read and posted there, but at least it was a start. Some of the old-timers here would remember that forum, it was mustard-yellow in color and was just one long page where people could add their thoughts to existing threads or start their own, nothing special and certainly not much to look at.

But the one advantage we had at that time was traffic; because it was on the free tour of a website which was getting a lot of hits, many people saw it and registered, started lurking and eventually posting. By 2003 or so it had passed LB-LB in terms of popularity and was about equal or greater to that of the Yahoo group. Some people may also remember the Tooned-Up forum from around that time as well; started by an ATS employee named Mike and run on company servers, it achieved some mild popularity before it folded in 2005 when Mike left the company; I just didn't have the time or patience to work with TWO forums, hell one was plenty so that one was ditched.

In early 2003 I was approached by a fellow later to be called Stogie Bear to work for the company. At first very hesitant to allow anyone to mess with my baby, I eventually gave in and let him re-make the forum into what he had in mind. No question that what he produced was much better; it allowed posters to add photos and avatars and was broken up into 5 or 6 sub-forums which was much easier to follow than the older, original style. We kept both running side-by-side for about 6 months or so, but it was plain to see that the new style was much better so in late 2004 we said goodbye to the old yellow one with no regrets.

Around this time another forum had come on-line. This was run by a guy nicknamed "The Ladyboy Hunter", who would eventually start the LB-69 website; he had a great business model of starting that forum for free, gaining a lot of members, and then morphing it all into a pay site, but still leaving the forum in the free tour area same as ATS. So basically when it launched in 2005 it already had a good base of members, and was re-named the LB-69 forum and was wildly popular and still is today, 6 years on. It's a good forum and has a good base of posters who are very loyal to that board, many of whom probably go all the way back to their beginning.

'Bangkok Tonight' always had a decent main forum, and they had a good sub-forum just for chatter about Ladyboys but it never really took off, not sure why. I used to read and post there for 2 or 3 years but it never gained any traction and was eventually closed down. The Questionable Girls Yahoo group was closed around 2005 as well; I knew the moderator by then and he explained to me that Yahoo had a lot of rules to follow, and he was being constantly hacked and spammed all the time, and since it was free and he wasn't making any coin it just wasn't worth the headaches so he closed it all down; R.I.P. to a great, early source of info there.

By 2006 and 2007 I had grown weary and tired of running the ATS forum. Stogie Bear was a co-moderator by that time as he knew a lot more about the inner-workings of how the site ran, but it was still my baby and I didn't like the direction it was going in at all. Too many people to handle in my opinion, and too many people bitching and moaning about one thing or the other. I couldn't stay awake 24 hours a day to moderate what was being said, and I'd oftentimes wake up to some clown complaining about something and it would ruin my whole day; it was my intention at this time to just remove the whole thing from my website and shut it down for good, but Stogie talked me into letting it be and HE would run it himself. To anyone who enjoyed the ATS forums from then until now, you have him to thank for that as he took over the day-to-day operations so I could just run my business.

By 2008 and 2009 there was that forum, which I had re-named The Ladyboy Forums and set it off on its own domain away from the AsianTS website, and there was LB-69, and they were easily the 2 most popular places to chat about Ladyboys, each with their own hardcore group of dedicated posters and followers semi-exclusive to those forums. LB-LB was still up behind its pay wall and may have been popular at that time but I really wouldn't know. Pattaya Ladyboys came in at around this time; I have never really followed that site so I can't be sure, but I imagine they also had just a small following at first, which has morphed into a huge site by now, and probably THE place for LB-Lovers [especially for those who enjoy the city of Pattaya] to hang out at. As others have said, I would agree that site is good for the niche it serves, mainly newcomers to the scene and people who are just now discovering the joys of Ladyboys and the Land of Smiles. But for long-time readers and veterans of the scene there is not a lot to follow there, save for the trip reports if that is of interest to them, since much of what is discussed up there has been chatted about ad nauseum on these other message boards for 10 years now.

in 2010 a new forum came along called The Best Ladyboy forum, which was started by Manarak and has a nice layout, and seems to be gaining traction with a certain crowd of veterans who have been in the scene for a while. Manarak is a genius with tech stuff so the forum has all the bells and whistles and you can add photos and links, etc, and it looks really nice. Then there is this one which also came along last year, and is the new 'home' for a lot of the people from the old ATS forums who know one another and feel at home here, as well as assorted friends and fellow mongers who we have met over the years. Pig Dogg knows a lot of people and runs this forum well, so no surprise that it has taken off and even for a cynical old veteran like myself I feel comfortable and welcomed here, something I haven't felt elsewhere in years.

Unfortunately in May of 2011 the old forum I started way back 10 years ago met its demise. It had become a pay site back in January of last year and initially enjoyed a high level of success, with many people prepared to pay the very reasonable asking price of a dollar per week. By this time all management decisions including the pay structure were decided by Stogie Bear, and all the income was his; he also had moved the site to his own server by then and was paying the bandwidth fees, so I had little say in day-to-day operation and had in fact only read and posted there very rarely since 2009 when it was split off from the ATS website. I still owned the name The Ladyboy Forums, and the billing was done through my account with the credit card merchant, but all the proceeds were going to Stogie; he ran the forums well for 5 years by then so he certainly deserved it.

When some rules were broken in 2011 and other people were seeing content they had made inside another pay site, they complained to my credit card processor and after a week of warnings ALL of my businesses, including that one, were shuttered by them for 10 days, unable to transact any business. Needless to say I never allowed that site to re-open again as The Ladyboy Forums lest it interfere with my other businesses, and I cancelled that sub-account with the processor; but I did give all of that content, 7 or 8 years worth, to Stogie for no charge to do as he will with it. No reason for all of that valuable information to just be lost and gone forever. It has now re-opened as a site called LadyboyQuest with a whole new billing method completely apart from me in any way, thank goodness, and still has a small base of diehard members.

I know Pig Dogg goes was back to the beginning, I remember meeting him through that Yahoo group and my own forum way-back-when. Blue Balls also, God love his republican ass, and my buddy Lefty as well and a great guy named Road Runner, who seems to be AWOL these days, same as the Lotusman. But to be honest I can't remember too many others who are still with us now; 10 years is a long time to be following message boards of ANY subject, and in all honesty even my own interest in ladyboys has seriously waned over that stretch. That actually goes back 4 or 5 years, to when I was being more hindrance than help on my own forums by suggesting to people that the Ladyboys may not have their best interests at heart {imagine that!} and turning a lot of people off with my too-truthful comments. Forums should be fun places where people go to enjoy the posts, not read the negative comments of what some grizzled ol' veteran of too many years in the trenches has to say. When I scan other forums these days and see some comments or stories which make me cringe I just smile to myself but I don't reply; we can let these new guys navigate the pitfalls of dealing with the ladyboys and in any case they don't want to hear what a jaded old fart would tell 'em anyway.

10 years, lots of posts, lots of comments and lots of friends made along the way - it's been a pretty wild ride and I have learned a lot and met some people I can hopefully call friends for life. If anyone else wants to add in their 3 cents and share with us when about you came into this story and which of the forums you have followed and which got you most interested in the LB's that would be great!

[SiamSam]

WOW!!!

What a terrific and wonderful account of the evolution of the scene as we know it now. Much thanks Jai Dee. You are indeed the "Accidental Pioneer" of what a lot of us hold dear today. As with many things (historically) which evolved into immeasurable value, they were started by someone who had a vision and saw tomorrow. You are such a person dear SIR and hat's off

I have had the pleasure of meeting you and look forward to future encounters.

And to everyone else, I ain't blowing smoke up his ass. :)

[SiamSam]

]

[deepthroat]

I think I remember you mentioning being a history buff, as am I. I LOVE these types of threads, with the background and gradual evolution of something into the form that most of us take for granted today. Without threads like this, the history and perspective is lost.

I think you're letting Stogie off pretty lightly in your assessment of the final days of TLF - he damn near ruined you through either indifference or ineptitude, and you're a far better man than I to write it off so easily. Back in it's day, TLF was a font of useful information, and I'm glad to at least see that the content remains available if someone choses to pay to access it.

Thanks for being the man with the foresight (or luck) to have been in on the ground floor of developing the vehicles and community that we all benefit from today.

[Hefe]

Great read jaidee, I'm also interested in history & people's journeys when they stray from the mainstream. My memory is so shot at this point in my life tho that a lot of the details are lost. I do remember chatting with stogie over on hung-angels when he was contemplating moving to Thailand.

Although I grabbed a ladyboy on my first night in Asia in early '95, I had been going with tgs for 10 years previously in the States & was in an ltr with a trans-pinay at the time. My primary "forum" then was the mailing list ASFO (which had originated on the newsgroups before they were terminally spammed).

Any former members here?

Some great stuff there in those years, but it was hetero & when someone brought up ladyboys they were generally criticized enough that it wasn't worth battling the noise. I think a number of guys there migrated to nanaplaza.com when the WWW came into it's own.

One notable exception on ASFO was a English fellow, who was an engaging writer, who recounted his maiden trip to Thailand & in several long reports over a few months detailed his meeting a ladyboy at Kings Corner 3 & falling head over heels for her & quitting his job & moving to Phuket with her & the inevitable collapse of the relationship & his pursuit of other ladyboys on his long drunken downward spiral. It was so well written & entertaining in a feverish way nobody complained that it was about katoeys.

[bumblebee]

Mention of the Tooned-Up forum brings back fond memories of my early exposure to the LB forum world. Think I joined it late '03 or early 04. I was unaware of the other sites mentioned at the time. Minerva with the mushroom bell end from the P.I.s was quite a prolific poster there.

After it folded I had to find a new home, and stumbled upon LB-69 and TLF in mid '05. I posted mostly on TLF for the first few years, then as I got to know more of the guys on 69, from about Xmas '08 onwards, I became more active there also.

Wonderful to see the history finally written down, great job JaiDee.

[JaiDee]

Thanks gents, I'm happy you all enjoyed seeing how these forums have evolved over the years. I figured that anyone who still reads and enjoys these LB forums would like to know how they all came about.

I never really got into Hung Angels, but I guess that one HAS been around for a while, since the late 90's. Prolly because I never had an interest in mainstream Shemales, only Asian Ladyboys. When my interest really came to a, errrm, head around 2000 I was a member of the LB-LB forum but it was inside a pay wall and wasn't all that busy.

As for letting Stogie off the hook DT....you have to remember that the first 7 years or so of our working and personal relationship were all good; he actually made my company a lot of cash with his behind the scenes work on free galleries which were floated out to thousands upon thousands of porn surfers, as well as working on certain parts of the AsianTS site itself. He also ran the forum when I just wasn't in the mood to do it from 2007-on, and put up with a lot of my grief along the way. No reason to pile on at this point, he knows he messed up badly by adding content which was not his, and his declining revenue and just about dead forum are punishment enough. As I said, may as well let him or someone else have all that shit because there is a lot of valuable stuff on there, no reason to leave it all parked on the servers for no one to see.

I told Sam the last time we met up that I don't post a lot these days because frankly I have nothing new to add, I haven't really been deep into the 'scene' for 4 or 5 years now. What I CAN add now and again are stories like this or the extortion story from years gone by; it's fun dredging up the old memories and putting it down and sharing some of this stuff with fellow mongers.

[JaiDee]

Mention of the Tooned-Up forum brings back fond memories of my early exposure to the LB forum world. Think I joined it late '03 or early 04. I was unaware of the other sites mentioned at the time. Minerva with the mushroom bell end from the P.I.s was quite a prolific poster there.

Too funny BB.... I remember when Minerva was causing trouble up there and she later did the same thing on the ATS forums; she has an attitude for sure. Also, the huge bell-shaped cock; Jaissus.....when I first saw that thing I almost fainted LOL. I just tried to find a photo or 2 of her but they seem to be lost to prosperity forever......for such a small person, maybe 5'2 and 100 pounds, she easily had the largest cock I'd ever seen.

Not really sure about Tooned-up, as I say one of my webmaster guys ran it but I never checked it that much as the ATS forum was rolling by then. But I know some people did like it, too bad Mike let it go belly-up.

[SiamSam]

Well you ain't getting any younger Jai Dee so please get the history stuff out there before your mind goes to NeverNeverLand.

[williethepimp]

well its nice to see you posting again Jaidee....you did sign off on us a few months back,nice to see you on here again....on a side note,you ever think of continuing the ayahuasca thread..im sure more than me want to see how that panned out.....

[JaiDee]

well its nice to see you posting again Jaidee....you did sign off on us a few months back,nice to see you on here again....on a side note,you ever think of continuing the ayahuasca thread..im sure more than me want to see how that panned out.....

I usually sign on to message boards when the weather is not cooperating; I live in Montreal now and it's damn cold these days! So I am on the PC more and more right now, not by choice believe me.

Hmmmm, I don't think the topic of Ayahuasca would draw much interest from most of the readers here....but feel free to send me a PM, I can tell you all you'd want to know. I have been to Peru twice to drink with the Shamans and the 15 times I have tried it were pretty wild experiences.

[Dabbler]

My primary "forum" then was the mailing list ASFO (which had originated on the newsgroups before they were terminally spammed).

Any former members here?

Some great stuff there in those years, but it was hetero & when someone brought up ladyboys they were generally criticized enough that it wasn't worth battling the noise. I think a number of guys there migrated to nanaplaza.com when the WWW came into it's own.

One notable exception on ASFO was a English fellow, who was an engaging writer, who recounted his maiden trip to Thailand & in several long reports over a few months detailed his meeting a ladyboy at Kings Corner 3 & falling head over heels for her & quitting his job & moving to Phuket with her & the inevitable collapse of the relationship & his pursuit of other ladyboys on his long drunken downward spiral. It was so well written & entertaining in a feverish way nobody complained that it was about katoeys.

"Any former members here? "

Present! :) I had no interest in lb's then, but I remember the lb afficionado you're talking about and he had reported contracting AIDS; we never found out how it ended though. He was neither sober nor prudent however, as you have alluded to; his posts were entertaining but it was like watching a train wreck (like many other stories from so many guys anyway).

One of the old-time members was in fact the moderator of the Yahoo Group mentioned by JaiDee ("questionable girls of Thailand") and he took occasional flak on the list for dabbling in lb's; a serious and informed amateur on all counts, that's for sure: always solid advice there. His usenet posts went back to the early 90's, pre-web.

[/start grumpy old man voice]

When you think of it, the quantity of info has changed, but not necessarily for the better: there is a lot of "noise" out there.

[/End grumpy old man voice]

D.

[Hefe]

Hi Dabbler,

From my time on asfo I recall many interesting postings & characters, but at this point in my life my memory has assumed on a soft-focus filter for any details & specifics are just out of reach for me (& hard drive crashes deleted the "keepers").

An example being our mutually admired poster whose hiv status I conveniently don't remember, nor his alias or his girlfriend's name or even the screen name of the guy who ran the list. I remember him posting for a while in the beginning of my residency there, but he soon became just the silent owner of the list. I always felt there is a treasure trove of info on a very unique emerging subculture that was just starting to gel there, I wonder what has become of all that?

I'm still scratching my head on how I was oblivious to this Yahoo group mentioned... what was the asfo alias of the mod you mentioned? (I have 2-3 notions...)

Cheers.

[HubbaBubba]

Fantastic history lesson. Thank you. I learned a great deal from the OP.

[Dabbler]

Hi Dabbler,

From my time on asfo I recall many interesting postings & characters, but at this point in my life my memory has assumed on a soft-focus filter for any details & specifics are just out of reach for me (& hard drive crashes deleted the "keepers").

An example being our mutually admired poster whose hiv status I conveniently don't remember, nor his alias or his girlfriend's name or even the screen name of the guy who ran the list. I remember him posting for a while in the beginning of my residency there, but he soon became just the silent owner of the list. I always felt there is a treasure trove of info on a very unique emerging subculture that was just starting to gel there, I wonder what has become of all that?

I'm still scratching my head on how I was oblivious to this Yahoo group mentioned... what was the asfo alias of the mod you mentioned? (I have 2-3 notions...)

Cheers.

Hi Hefe. The mod of the Yahoo group was "Oaktoad" on the post ASFO mailing list (but also on the old Usenet list), but I don't know what his alias was on Yahoo.

I tried to remember the alias of the HIV guy and I think it's "Bilbo" but I'm not sure 100%. Like you say, some of these things get filed in the back of our brain, or maybe erased altogether. For quite a few years, the list was the only serious game in town information-wise; I sure got good mileage out of it.

As for archives, you won't find any because--although a list member kept a private one on the web for a while--the list owner prefered it this way. In retrospect, it's probably a good policy. Here would be a good spot to insert a Latin quotation about the ravages of time ;)

In regards to lb forums, by the time I started looking into it ATS was already well established, so Jai Dee historical tour is very interesting. It seems to boil down to a very few serious "hobbyists" putting up the odd board here and there, and natural selection doing the rest.

D.

[Dabbler]

duplicate.

[Hefe]

By golly he was the primary one I figured it to be since he mentioned lbs in passing a few times.... altho in my memory banks I was coming up with "treefrog" as his handle :lol: He had some interesting posts all right.

I do believe you are right with "Bilbo" as well.

Cheers!

[Coxy277]

if it wasnt for your hard word and forsite to bring in stogie most of us would still be in the closet your site gave me the confidence to be open about what i liked as for 4 yrs before i would hind but now im proud

i also think that bangkok pattaya and phuket ladyboys all owe you a big drink as if it wasnt for you and you forward thinking they would be stuck in little bars picking up scraps but now they have there own bars ( somtimes bigger and more popular than gg bars ) to ply there trade

thank you

[SiamSam]

Well put Coxy!!!

[PadThaiBoy]

Well thanks for the insight, well written, and echo Coxy post above.

Although we know, the internet has been going a few more years than this it is interesting how it is only in recent years how this scene has really taken off....Is it awareness, or......

[Lefty]

Mention of the Tooned-Up forum brings back fond memories of my early exposure to the LB forum world. Think I joined it late '03 or early 04. I was unaware of the other sites mentioned at the time. Minerva with the mushroom bell end from the P.I.s was quite a prolific poster there.

After it folded I had to find a new home, and stumbled upon LB-69 and TLF in mid '05. I posted mostly on TLF for the first few years, then as I got to know more of the guys on 69, from about Xmas '08 onwards, I became more active there also.

Wonderful to see the history finally written down, great job JaiDee.

Minerva is still around, but she has so many different names she goes by, it's not easy to keep up. She has been the star of her own movie, The Amazing Truth About Queen Raquela, and I've seen her on facebook, under some other weird name. She posted on the TLF a few years ago under another name than the one she uses on FB. She is a discovery of JaiDee and I think he was the first to ever do a shoot of her.

[Lefty]

Hi Hefe. The mod of the Yahoo group was "Oaktoad" on the post ASFO mailing list (but also on the old Usenet list), but I don't know what his alias was on Yahoo.

I tried to remember the alias of the HIV guy and I think it's "Bilbo" but I'm not sure 100%. Like you say, some of these things get filed in the back of our brain, or maybe erased altogether. For quite a few years, the list was the only serious game in town information-wise; I sure got good mileage out of it.

As for archives, you won't find any because--although a list member kept a private one on the web for a while--the list owner prefered it this way. In retrospect, it's probably a good policy. Here would be a good spot to insert a Latin quotation about the ravages of time ;)

In regards to lb forums, by the time I started looking into it ATS was already well established, so Jai Dee historical tour is very interesting. It seems to boil down to a very few serious "hobbyists" putting up the odd board here and there, and natural selection doing the rest.

D.

The guy who ran Questionable Girls of Thailand went by the user name Lavenderchaps. I saw that name on forums, Oaktoad, but had no idea they were the same person. I heard somewhere a couple years ago, that Lavenderchaps passed away. Not sure how accurate that was though. I met him once and he was quite a bit older than me and would have to be in his 70s if still alive.

[Lefty]

if it wasnt for your hard word and forsite to bring in stogie most of us would still be in the closet your site gave me the confidence to be open about what i liked as for 4 yrs before i would hind but now im proud

i also think that bangkok pattaya and phuket ladyboys all owe you a big drink as if it wasnt for you and you forward thinking they would be stuck in little bars picking up scraps but now they have there own bars ( somtimes bigger and more popular than gg bars ) to ply there trade

thank you

The first trailblazer to bring a lot of attention to the Asian ladyboy scene was Seanchai, the owner of ladyboy-ladyboy.com and JaiDee was right behind him. Sort of like if Seanchai was Jim Bridger then JaiDee was Kit Carson. If you want to really thank anyone that is whom to thank. JaiDee was always much more customer oriented and sort of broke some new ground on that. When I first found his site, I liked a certain model, he knows who, and no reason to say her name here. I emailed him and asked if I could contact her, and could he help me, and less than 24 hrs later, he replied with her email address and phone number. I think he even contacted her in advance to let her know I may be calling or emailing her soon. This was all done for me, for free. How can you beat that? You can't. 3-4 months later, I went to Thailand for the first time and spent 3 eventful weeks with this ladyboy and had a very memorable time.

Suffice it to say, I LOVE JaiDee, and even though he and I disagree on Brett Favre and Lee Harvey Oswald, the big lug always has a hug coming from me whenever I am able to see him again.

[JaiDee]

I think part of the reason the ATS website and forum took off so well WAS the customer service angle. It was unique for the time; you could not only view and chat about the models, but if we had their contact info we would be happy to share it with members. It was good for the girls and good for the site and its members, so win-win all around.

By 2003-2004 the models all started having e-mail addresses, or I would simply start a new Hotmail account for them which they could check at any internet cafe; and of course telephone numbers were always available for people who were coming to BKK or Pattaya. Within 3 or 4 years it was literally impossible to keep up with all those girls, but for a while the 'contact' feature worked pretty well.

Oaktoad/LavenderChaps was ahead of his time for sure. Not sure how he started the Yahoo group or how it became so popular, but by 2001 when I first found it and for 2 or 3 years after that he had about 100 good posters and even more lurkers. It was the main place I went to meet fellow mongers in the early days and to read about the comings and goings of BKK ladyboys.

[beijo]

Thank you JaiDee, not only for the interesting history lesson and all the good you did for the LB's but for all the great help your work provided for us in preparing for our trips to LOS and the time we spend there. Thanks again