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Understanding the Lives of Transgendered People (Ladyboys) and Their Partners


KellyKely

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Understanding the Lives of Transgendered People (Ladyboys) and Their Partners

 

We had a FULL HOUSE for the presentation! Thanks to all of you that showed up and for the great discussion and sharing of information. We are all now better equipped to help bring in more awareness and acceptance of transpeople.

For those of you that were unable to attend I am sharing my notes for the presentation so you will have an opportunity to get some of the information shared. Spread the word, help usher in a more accepting world for all transpeople and their partners.

Kelly’s notes for the presentation

 

Kelly’s pre-presentation centering > set loving intention > invite in playfulness > ask for it to serve the best for everyone present > invite in an opening to intuition > Open each Chakra > trust the process

Hi my name is Kelly and I am an advocate and lover of transgendered people. My background is that I have worked as a personal and transpersonal growth workshop facilitator for about 25 years. I counselled many transpeople through that time.

My intention today is to bring awareness about transgendered people. Some of what they have to deal with and why they are such an inspiration of strength and courage. I will also touch on the subject of what it is like to be a partner of a transgendered person. But first I will go over some guidelines for the group.

Guidelines:
1. This can be a sensitive topic because of the disease of prejudice that surrounds it. So I am asking for a show of hands from those of you that are willing to respect the confidentiality of anyone in the group that shares. This means you agree that you will not name names if you are sharing about your experience here today with anyone that was not present.

NOTE: If anyone is not willing to raise their hand in agreement we will ask them to leave.

2. If you have questions, or you want to share, then raise your hand and do not speak until your hand is acknowledged. Sometimes I will not answer a hand right away if I am getting the intuition to keep talking from the front first.

3. Keep the power where it belongs > with yourself. I will just be sharing my ideas and present beliefs. I do not claim to be the ultimate authorities on the subject. I am not trying to sell you on my beliefs. Feel free to have your own beliefs including ones that differ from mine.

4. Be accountable for owning that your beliefs are your own. If sharing your beliefs do not try to impose them on anyone else in the group.

 

4.Turn off all cell phones/electronic devices.

 

I will share for a while and then open the group up to questions.

Closed eye journey of imagination > Have people close their eyes. > Imagine that you are a transperson waking up in the morning knowing you will be facing another day where your father or mother is ashamed of you. After many arguments you are no longer talking with each other. You will be going to school or work and be faced with some people teasing you directly and others saying nasty things behind your back but still within hearing range. You live in fear of being beat up again. You will be told that you cannot use the washroom that fits the gender that you feel you are to the core of your being. You know that the person that you have a crush on will not want to be seen with you in public. You end the day in room alone wondering why you are alive. You wonder if there is a point to carrying on.

Invite people to open their eyes again. > This was an example of what many transpeople are dealing with. Fortunately not all are living with that level of stress. > speak about levels of acceptance growing slowly around the world. Speak about how the internet is a tool to take them out of isolation. Let them know they are not alone. Give them others to talk with about dealing with the things they are facing.

Let’s be clear that sexual orientation and gender are two different things. Transpeople like anyone else might be attracted sexually to any of the variety of genders out there or they might be asexual.

 

Names: Across the world transpeople are called various different names. And a name that is acceptable in one country will be considered degrading in another country. Example: Many male to female transpeople in North America would be totally offended to be called a ladyboy, but here in Asia the term is used with no offense by transpeople and the regular public. In fact when I first came here to Thailand and addressed people as being transgendered they looked at me with a puzzled face, not knowing what I was talking about. During this presentation I may use the term ladyboy or kathoey from time to time as these are terms common to Thailand.

Another example: Many transpeople would find being called a shemale offensive because it is a term usually used for transpeople who work in the sex trade industry. So unless the person does work in the sex trade and is comfortable with their work choice, it is likely they will feel offended.  

If you want to know what term to use with a particular individual, just ask them what they are comfortable with. It takes the guessing out of it.

 

Almost every extra challenge a transperson has, stems from prejudice. Without prejudice they would just have the regular everyday challenges common to all people.

They exhibit extreme courage to be true to themselves in spite of dealing with ongoing prejudices. Whether it be consciously or subconsciously, they are teachers of people that want to learn to be true to themselves rather than live a life of betraying themselves in order to attempt to please others.

North American transgendered people’s suicide rates are about 3 times as high as any other group of people.

Risk of getting beaten and/or murdered. (The gruesome story of my friend Jennifer being strangled and left with her head in the toilet.)

Work situation > Filipino example > to work in most factories they would have to wear men’s clothing, cut their hair, and pretend to be a boy. Huge disrespect of who they are.

Many Asian families have a tradition that the oldest male is responsible for the financial welfare of the parents if the parents are no longer able to work and of younger siblings. If a male to female transperson is the first born in an Asian family, they are still considered the oldest male. They may be living in a country where transpeople are refused as employees for most jobs. Because of this often transpeople will work in the sex trade because of the lack of alternatives. Many enjoy that type of work, yet many others are doing it because of the lack of alternatives.

Bamboo club > Share the story of going with a transwoman to do some dancing. Being told at the door that I can come in but that she is not allowed. I am hit with waves of sadness that she has to deal with this level of prejudice, quickly followed by anger. I start arguing with the doorman and he points to a sign they have saying in Thai that no ladyboys are allowed. As if the sign somehow makes it right. I feel her tugging at my arm and realize this is not the time to be arguing about this issue. She is already embarrassed enough with everyone around seeing her being turned away without my standing there arguing adding to her embarrassment. So we leave. This is 2015 but I feel like I have travelled back in time to the 50’s in the USA with signs of no blacks allowed! I am disgusted. And it has burst my bubble about assuming that Thailand is so progressive around acceptance of Kathoey. Yes Thailand is one of the most progressive countries in the word around accepting ladyboys but it still has a long way to go to eradicate prejudice.

Some male to female transpeople are born with very feminine features making it much easier for them to blend in as women. Hard for people to know that they were not born female unless they decide to tell you. In North America this un-detectability is referred to as being “stealth”. But others have very masculine features and are far more susceptible to receiving the brunt of prejudice behaviors.

One of the more difficult challenges faced by transpeople is if/when parents or other family members to not accept and support them in being true to themselves. This can also include their children if they have any. The deep desire to be accepted within the family system makes it even more challenging for them to be true to themselves.

 

What feeds people’s prejudice? > It is people’s fears of the unknown > wanting to have a gender role to cling to > attack anything that challenges that. Wanting to stay in the safety of the “box” of beliefs and patterns they have built around them. Even if that box is not comfortable, it is known to them. Often people will stay with the discomfort of the known rather than risking opening to the unknown. So when a transperson comes along it challenges their gender role. So rather than exploring that, they will attack and try to destroy.

But the reality is, there are not just two well defined genders. The gender spectrum is large. Including many babies that are born with two sets of genitallia. Most people are so stuck in their belief that there should only be two genders, that they will remove one of the sets of genitallia from the child. This happens without the child’s input. The child can end up being raised as a gender that does not fit the way they are hard wired inside their minds.

As well as there being a wide spectrum of gender there is also the layering on of one of 7 billion unique personalities that live on the planet. Sadly people think that they have to be the same as others in order to fit in. Not only is that impossible because we are all unique but it is soul destroying to attempt to mold ourselves into something that we are not.

Difficulties transpeople face in finding a partnership. >

Many males or females born with a corresponding body (referred to as cisgendered) are afraid to openly acknowledge their love for a transperson for fear of being persecuted for their choice. They risk rejection by family, friends, and co-workers. They risk losing their jobs. These frightened people do not allow themselves to fully develop partnerships with transpeople. This leads to secrecy and only wanting to be with transpeople part time behind closed doors.

Partner may want to have children but don’t want adopt so they will move on to find a partner that can provide offspring.

In many countries transpeople are not allowed to get married.

Many people just see transpersons as sexual objects > they want to have sex with them but do not want to build a relationship.

 

Lack of respect for a transperson’s intelligence. Thinking that ladyboys are desperate, so feeding them lies in hopes of getting what they want. Example: On social media guys claiming within minutes of first knowing a transperson that they want to marry her. Their sole intention is to have sex with the person and they think that a ladyboy will be so desperate to fill a dream of being married that they will leave all their common sense and intelligence behind and do whatever this guy wants.

If prejudice was eliminated we would see many, many more transpeople in relationships.

You may have read news articles about a transperson losing it and attacking someone. Sadly the buildup of emotions that comes with dealing with ongoing prejudice can explode in some transpeople. Then when others hear about it, it gives them another excuse for feeding their prejudice against transpersons. The media reports the most titillating stories. It rarely reports in on the hundreds of thousands of transpeople that are living regular day to day lives.

 

Transpeople also have to deal with prejudice police. Example: I had my wallet stolen by a woman. When I reported it to the Thailand police they asked if she was a ladyboy. I said no it was a woman. During the time I spent at the police station I was asked at least 10 times if I was sure it was not a ladyboy. The police want to pin crime on ladyboys. As if crime is only committed by ladyboys and not by men and women.
As you probably know, if you walk down Beach Road in Pattaya at night you will see many genetically born (cisgender) ladies and ladyboys working the sex trade. On a regular basis the police will gather up multiple ladyboys and ladyboys only. Take them down to the police station. Give them a talk about not working the sex trade, fine them and then let them go. There are cisgender woman standing right beside the ladyboys doing exactly the same thing and they are rarely taken by the police and fined.

When the police are doing a round up you will see the ladyboys scatter and run to hide. Yet the cisgender women are so confident that they will not be harassed, that they will just stand in their spots and continue working.
 

Ladyboys are the scapegoats. And because the police focus on them, there are more reports of them committing crimes so it deepens the prejudice and makes life even harder for honest living ladyboys.

 

Problems at the border > M to F have to use Male ID / F to M have to use Female on ID. (Hopefully these laws will change) When getting a passport in Thailand or the Philippines you will be marked with the gender you were born with and they want you to look like that gender for passport photos. So for a ladyboy they have to pull their hair back, wear no makeup and try to look like a boy. Yet when they go to travel looking like their normal feminine selves they often get hassled by immigration because they look like a woman not like the photo in their passport.  

Transgendered people are the same as any other gender when it comes to sexuality. They may be attracted to having sex with men / women / other transgendered people / or any combination of those.

 

Some M to F transpeople that are pre-op do not like to involve their genitallia in sex. Some even see their genitallia as betraying them. Because it was because of their genitalia that they were raised as males even though they knew themselves to be female. Others are happy to keep and utilize their genitalia.

Many ladyboys take hormones that can make them look more feminine, soften skin, retard body hair growth, lose muscle mass, grow breasts.

But they have to deal with side effects. Some go through extreme emotional upheaval in the early stages. The risks of getting cancer rises.

It is not uncommon for some types of hormone use to lower or even full diminish sexual drive. As well some hormones can totally block the ability to get hard. Some block the ability to ejaculate. Others reduce sensation of orgasm and the ejaculate is clear with very little volume. Others will reduce the size of the penis and gonads.

Until the wide spread use of the internet a large majority of transpeople (especially in North America and other countries that had not adapted to including transpeople into their culture) felt isolated and felt there was something wrong with them because they did not know there were other people that were like them. Fortunately in Thai culture transpeople have been included so there has not been the same kind of isolation here.
 

The following two paragraphs are from: http://www.wikihow.com/Respect-a-Transgender-Person

Some trans people will be comfortable answering questions, and some will not. If a transperson is uncomfortable answering, or doesn't want to, then let it go. If you need to know, use resources such as google.
 

Many believe that the word "transgender" is an adjective, and a descriptive word; not a noun or a verb. Others believe otherwise. Just as you wouldn't call an older person "an old" or say they are "olded", it is inappropriate to refer to a transgender person as "a transgender" without adding "person", "woman", "man", or any other appropriate noun. Some transgender people also consider this objectifying and dehumanizing.

 

Cisgender = adjective: denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity conforms with the gender that corresponds to their biological sex; not transgender.

Near closing > Just before doing our final piece, we would like to thank and honor the transpersons of the world for their courage and their ability to be examples to all of us about the importance of being true to ourselves even in the face of prejudice and judgment from others. If we are not true to ourselves we cannot be happy because we will be living in a state of self-betrayal. Next time you are worried about what others will think of you for being whom you are, whether it be about something as simple as being concerned about what others will think of your haircut and the clothing you wear or as complex as your sexual orientation, let transpeople be an inspiration and a reminder to follow what feels true to you.

End with an appreciation circle. Each person shares one or two things they are appreciative about.

Let people at the event know they can email me to be sent an information package. (Include Transgender Support and Terms for Gender Identity and for Sexual Expressions)

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  • 1 month later...

FANTASTIC post, thank you very much for sharing your research.

 

I've been living with a trans woman here in the USA for 2 years. When she first told her family she was transitioning, her older brother (who she is very close with) got upset and told her "Why couldn't you just stay gay!". He was very upset and disappointed. Although they quickly reconciled, it's still something that I know bothers her today, as she has always loathed disappointing anyone, especially those she is closest to. 

 

I think she was actually relatively lucky compared to the reaction most trans people face from family and friends when they begin to transition.

 

I believe part of the reason we are together is more than just simply "love" - although we both profess to love each other, I am 54 while she is 24. How often have you ever seen a cisgender couple in such a lopsided relationship? I've always believed that much of the reason I've been so lucky is that trans women don't have the same relationship opportunities as a cisgender... to find a stable loving cisgender partner she had to find a guy that was old enough (and financially set enough) that he didn't really have the same worries and concerns about being "found out" as most cisgender guys would upon considering a relationship with a trans woman.

 

I'm also relatively lucky in that Lexy was extremely "passable". Not sure about the term "stealth" that you used, I've never heard Lexy use that term. For her, it's all about being passable, and not getting "clocked", IE: recognized as being trans.

 

I've not had to deal with the trauma/drama of having to "come out" to friends and family about my love for a trans woman. I'm sure a few must suspect, but they either have the common sense and courtesy not to ask, or they realize it's not important. 

 

Once again, thank you so much for posting this. I hope this begins a dialog amongst the membership.

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I've been living with a trans woman here in the USA for 2 years.

 

Wow......Have you ever traveled a long road  DT since your beginnings on Stogies old forum..........

 

I am very as in extremely,  happy for you ...........

 

It matters little if we love GGs or ladyboys or femboys or boys........

 

What matters most is that we love ourselves first.......

 

Just  the way we are..........

 

I am happy for you..........

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  • 2 weeks later...

FANTASTIC post, thank you very much for sharing your research.

 

I've been living with a trans woman here in the USA for 2 years. When she first told her family she was transitioning, her older brother (who she is very close with) got upset and told her "Why couldn't you just stay gay!". He was very upset and disappointed. Although they quickly reconciled, it's still something that I know bothers her today, as she has always loathed disappointing anyone, especially those she is closest to. 

 

I think she was actually relatively lucky compared to the reaction most trans people face from family and friends when they begin to transition.

 

I believe part of the reason we are together is more than just simply "love" - although we both profess to love each other, I am 54 while she is 24. How often have you ever seen a cisgender couple in such a lopsided relationship? I've always believed that much of the reason I've been so lucky is that trans women don't have the same relationship opportunities as a cisgender... to find a stable loving cisgender partner she had to find a guy that was old enough (and financially set enough) that he didn't really have the same worries and concerns about being "found out" as most cisgender guys would upon considering a relationship with a trans woman.

 

I'm also relatively lucky in that Lexy was extremely "passable". Not sure about the term "stealth" that you used, I've never heard Lexy use that term. For her, it's all about being passable, and not getting "clocked", IE: recognized as being trans.

 

I've not had to deal with the trauma/drama of having to "come out" to friends and family about my love for a trans woman. I'm sure a few must suspect, but they either have the common sense and courtesy not to ask, or they realize it's not important. 

 

Once again, thank you so much for posting this. I hope this begins a dialog amongst the membership.

Thanks for the appreciation. 

Glad you found value in it. 

Happy that you and Lexy are enjoying a relationship with each other. 

Fortunately here in Pattaya there is not the ageism issues to contend with like in North America. I am more than twice as old as my present partner and no one here in Thailand gives it a second thought. Including her family. > Hmm not totally true > some of the tourists that bring their prejudice along with them on vacation give us the "stink eye" from time to time. 

I am proud of Lexy's willingness to be true to herself in spite of not wanting to disappoint her brother or anyone else. 

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Continuing with the theme:

For all my wonderful trans-friends and their supporters!! Spread the love!

I am in a group where the question was raised “WHY ARE LADYBOYS BETTER THAN WOMEN?” 

I thought it to be a good theme to bring up here as well and look forward to reading people’s comments. 

I will start by sharing my response to the question. (Note: Although the subject did not include FtoM transgendered people you will see some of the sharing below can be applied to them as well.)

Great subject yet I would suggest it is not about who is better. Every person is unique. I will say that in general I appreciate all styles, flavors, cultures and genders of people. I have a pretty big capacity for loving people regardless of whether their flavor would attract me as a friend or not. Now to narrow it down to my personal romantic, emotional and sexual attractions. Why am I more drawn to MtoF transgendered persons (ladyboys) and to hermaphrodites than to genetic females?

I trust my attraction to ladyboys and know as I follow what is true for me and honor of the essence of who I am, my life will be benefited. 

(For the term ladyboy, feel free to substitute transwomen or whatever term is your personal preference > I am using ladyboy as that was the term used in the question)

I can share some of the reasons I am more attracted to ladyboys but that does not make them better or worse. 

Most of the ladyboys I know have a strength of spirit and courage that I admire. I love that that have been true to themselves and live as women even in a world full of prejudice against them. We could all learn from them > to be true to who we are whether others like it or not. As ladyboys are teaching us > how can we possibly be happy unless we first live in a manner that is true to the essence of who we are. Of course this applies to every aspect of who we are, gender is just an example of one aspect. 

Typically because of challenges that ladyboys have had to go through in their transformation to women, they tend to have built strong characters. And they often have a compassion for other people's struggles because they know from firsthand experience what it is like to struggle. So many ladyboys have big hearts! (Sadly for some ladyboys, the struggles and challenges have turned them bitter instead. But I can certainly understand why that can happen.) 

I find that the majority of ladyboys really own, celebrate, and live from their femininity which is super attractive to me. Many genetic women don't.

Many (not all) ladyboys are very skilled sexually. It probably comes from having been born in a male body so they typically know much better about what pleases a man. 

Many ladyboys carry a sensual, sexy, aura about them almost all the time. 

I am attracted to the combination of all that femininity with a blend of some masculinity mixed in. My personal preference is for ladyboys that are non-op, that enjoy and love to use their penis. (Of course I support any ladyboy in having SRS [sexual reassignment surgery] if that is what is true for them. It would just mean that I would be attracted to them as a friend but not be attracted to them as a partner.)

In my experience ladyboys tend to be much more straight forward when it comes to sexuality. Most do not play the kind of "push/pull" games that many genetic women do. 

In my experience most ladyboys tend to embrace their sexuality whereas many genetic women tend to carry some shame around their sexuality that keeps them repressed or thinking they have to hide it even when they may desire it. This leads to the back and forth games that get played out. My preference is for people to be straightforward about what they do and do not want. In the area of sexuality my experience has been that most ladyboys are straightforward. This is refreshing and adds to them having an attractive personality.

And as someone pointed out to me that made me laugh > “You can tell she is not faking orgasm.” 

On a more esoteric global consciousness level I appreciate ladyboys for the following. 

I think more and more ladyboys are being born onto the planet to play an important part in lifting the collective consciousness to a higher, more evolved level. Ladyboys help bust people out of old black and white gender thinking. Too many people are stuck in thinking they have to live a certain way that conforms to societies norms around gender. Ladyboys have the ability by their very presence to bust people out of that stuck way of thinking. Ladyboys are teachers that show people that it is okay for each individual to be true to whom they are even if it goes against societal and cultural norms. 

I hope that any ladyboy that has taken the time to read through this will be left with a feeling of even more empowerment. Will stand even taller in whom they are. Will know that they are appreciated and loved and in fact needed to be here. Know that when you face and move through struggles that you are doing the ground work for making this world a better place for generations to come. Your courage is admired and appreciated. I am sorry that we still live in a world with much prejudice and that you have had to live through that. Thanks for helping transform prejudice into acceptance. My heart and support goes out to you.

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