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Money Exchange Rates - ATM vs. Bringing Cash


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On 8/16/2018 at 3:02 AM, xyzzy said:

  How long has it been since you opened these accounts? It's been almost impossible to get an account for a few years now (unless it recently changed) on an entry stamp/tourist visa unless you go to immigration and get some form with your picture on it. And even then your account maybe limited as to what it can do unless you have a retirement visa.

The Kasikorn account was opened 3 years ago, the Krung Thai over 20 years ago. I think everything  is becoming more restrictive since the old man took over. Last time I applied for an international driving licence I was informed it also required permission from immigration, which of course costs yet another 1k baht on top of the 500 baht for the licence and a residency certificate. If you use a hotel on regular basis, the staff will most likely help with this. I always stay Sutus Court, they always fix things for me. Good luck.:girldevil:

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On 8/15/2018 at 8:21 PM, xyzzy said:

 You can open a free bank account at Schwab (USA) and get a debt card that will charge no foreign transaction fees and will refund the ATM fees (at the end of each month).  You will get the VISA US FX rate which is generally slightly better than the TT rate at a Thai bank. I find the rate about the same as TT Exchange in Pattaya and damn close to Vasu. I've been using a Schwab debit card in Thailand for years.

   

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The Schwab card mentioned above is a great card to have. Here is the link that account info.

Link: https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/checking_account

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  • 1 month later...

Regarding exchange rates in the basement of Suvarnaphumi technically in the Rail Link station it just takes a minute to check all the booths for the best rates.

They tend to be very close but there are occasional aberations.

At Kasikorn (only in basement of airport) the Busy/Sell spread is typically 0.05 or 0.06 baht for USD maybe around 0.20 or so for Euros and Pounds.

But the spread recently was 0.27 for USD at Kasikorn after a day of extreme currency flucuation and a big stock market slide but the other booths (Superrich Thailand and others) had the normal spreads.

Oddly the rate for buying baht at Kasikorn was exactly the same as selling baht at one of the other booths.  If the rate was only 0.01 baht different in the right direction, I could have gone back and forth between the booths buying and selling.  I was exchanging a few thousand dollars if only changing a hundred bucks it wouldn't be worth it.

If exchanging minor currencies such as the Philippine Piso there can be huge differences between the booths.  Think one would be better off changing Philippines Piso to USD in the Philiines and then changing the USD to baht in Thailand.

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Kasikorn, or any big bank, always has a worse exchange rate compared to the best of places in the airport rail link or TT Exchange in Pattaya. Kasikorn closed three exchange booths on Soi Buakhao a couple of years ago. I presume because of competition from TT Exchange and perhaps others.   

 

 

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On 10/15/2018 at 4:03 AM, xyzzy said:

Kasikorn, or any big bank, always has a worse exchange rate compared to the best of places in the airport rail link or TT Exchange in Pattaya. Kasikorn closed three exchange booths on Soi Buakhao a couple of years ago. I presume because of competition from TT Exchange and perhaps others.   

 

 

Correctomundo (in general)

However there are two Kasikorn exchange booths at the Airport Rail link that offer much better rates than at their other exchange booths throughout Thailand or what is listed on their website.

One of them is at the top of the ramp and the other is by the other exchange booths.

My only experience is changing USD to baht or changing baht to USD and at various times at the airport link Ihave used Kasikorn, SuperRich Thailand, and Value depending on who is offering the best rate.   If the rates are exactly the same then Value is a good choice because they gave me a free pouch to hold my money that I find useful.

I'm not even sure if Kasikorn cares if they make money from these booths. The real reason might be to punish the other exchange booths or knock them out of business.

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3 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

Correctomundo (in general)

However there are two Kasikorn exchange booths at the Airport Rail link that offer much better rates than at their other exchange booths throughout Thailand or what is listed on their website.

One of them is at the top of the ramp and the other is by the other exchange booths.

My only experience is changing USD to baht or changing baht to USD and at various times at the airport link Ihave used Kasikorn, SuperRich Thailand, and Value depending on who is offering the best rate.   If the rates are exactly the same value is a good choice because they gave me a free pouch to hold my money that I find useful.

I'm not even sure if Kasikorn cares if they make money from these booths. The real reason might be to punish the other exchange booths or knock them out of business.

  Interesting! Kasikorn sure got their butt kicked in Pattaya by TT. There is an SCB exchange not far from the rail link exchanges that didn't have a good rate the one time I was there. But I got there about 30 minutes after the rail link places closed. So instead of changing cash I used the SCB ATM to get baht. 

  I would guess most guys never find the exchange places by the rail link. Although they are a bit better known now because of the forums. But many US ~noon departures arrive around midnight so they aren't even open then. As was the case the one time I wanted to exchange cash.

    

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My guess is that the big banks need to have the same FX ate countrywide which is posted on their website (with some very minor exceptions such as the airport rail link.  

TT can concentrate on areas that have lots of farang and don't need to provide banking services, customer service.

In general, foreign exchange seems to the an extremely profitable business especially when just dealing with wire transfers.

Yesterday, a buddy brought over my Fidelity card, haven't used it yet and like Schwab will refund ATM fees.  Unlike with Schwab, there is a 1% foreign exchange fee imposed by Visa.

So my basic plan will be to withdraw money in Cambodia where the machines spit out USD then exchange to baht at the Airport Link where the FX fee hidden in the Buy/Sell spread is onlt about 1/100 of 1%.  Hard to see how they stay profitable given that there are expenses in handing paper money, rent, employees, possible fraud etc.

But if they're open I reckon they are making money at approx 0.01% so it shows how eggregious fees of 1% or more are.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

As mentioned in Pattaya, TT Exchange gives a much better rate than the banks for major currencies.

Two alternatives:

There is a very small exchange booth just past Friendship supermarket, at the very end of their space by their annex, as you head from TukCom towards 3rd Road. The USD rate was 32.98 while at TT it was 32.95. 

I have always had good luck at the antique store between Soi 16 and Soi VC on 2nd Road. But haven't used it in a longtime now that I use the airline booths at Swampy. If you ask for a better rate at the antique store they might give it to you if changing a large amount and if the rate is moving but not yet posted to a more favorable rate for them. I suspect that they offer a good rate on Middle Eastern currencies since I always see lots of Arabs there.

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Just discovered a website a few hours ago that makes it pretty easy to compare rates among money changers.

You might have to login to the site to see the best results but you can login by way of Facebook.

These rates may not be up to date and is not an exhaustive list of money changers but is a good starting point as to finding the best rate.

I fooled around with some links to make them more user friendly.

Below are the rates for USD, EUR, and GBP for Pattaya and Bangkok:

https://get4x.com/en/thailand/pattaya/USD-THB?amount=_1

https://get4x.com/en/thailand/pattaya/EUR-THB?amount=_1

https://get4x.com/en/thailand/pattaya/GBP-THB?amount=_1

https://get4x.com/en/thailand/bangkok/USD-THB?amount=_1

https://get4x.com/en/thailand/bangkok/EUR-THB?amount=_1

https://get4x.com/en/thailand/bangkok/GBP-THB?amount=_1

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5 hours ago, xyzzy said:

So how much difference does it show between say the top five? It won't let me create a login and I'm sure as hell not going to link it to Facebook.

To answer your question about 0.05 baht per dollar.

But I am not really sure if the rates shown are really up to date.

There were differences between some TT locations.  And some TT locations had different names. Maybe some are franchised or there was a merger/takeover?

I wonder if all TT locations in Pattaya have the exact same rate?

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14 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

There were differences between some TT locations.  And some TT locations had different names. Maybe some are franchised or there was a merger/takeover?

I wonder if all TT locations in Pattaya have the exact same rate?

  If you go to Facebook and search TT Exchange there seems to be a different page for each exchange site. But they all post their exchange rate at like 9:30 AM and they all seem to be the same. I did find one that was different but it turned out it was the rate for Oct 26 and all the other sites had only posted the Oct 25 rate. I looked at four different TT's and all showed the same number for the USD at 9:30 AM on the 25th. FWIW

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  • 3 weeks later...

I was checking out exchange rates today and noticed that not all TT Currency Exchanges have exactly the same rate.   When I checked some had 33.04 baht per USD and some others had 33.07 baht per USD.

The TT across from the antique store exchange had 33.04 as did the antique store.

The TT next to gay massage a little north of Pattaya Tai had 33.07 as did the place across the street.

Did not check other currencies.

Don't know if some TTs are always better or maybe they are just updating at different times.

All these places were substantially better than Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn, and Krungsri/Ayudathya.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Been doing lots of research into the Schwab card and Fidelity card.

These are both excellent but neither uses the Interbank Bank.  Rather they both use the Visa consumer rate with a buy/sell spread.

Perhaps technically they can call this no fee but to me the difference between the Interbank rate and the rate you get is a............................... fee.

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and fucks like a duck it's a..................... duck.

The rate you get is on this website.

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

I guess the way to figure out this fee is to do a hypothetical transaction on the website, then reverse the transaction.  If you subtract the original input from the reversed output and then divide by two you should get the fee.assuming that the Interbank rate is the midpoint of the original input and reverse output.If you want a percentage you would then divide the fee by the amount withdrawn.  This fee is reasonable. 

The good news is neither Fidelity or Schwab add any additional fees to the Visa Consumer Rate.

They also rebate your ATM fees.

I don't have experience with the Schwab card but to get the ATM rebate from Fidelity, the debit card must be inked to a Fidelity Cash Management Account, not a Fidelity Brokerage Account.

If you already have a Fidelity Brokerage Account it takes just a minute to set up the Cash Management Account.

Also with both cards, one should check online to see if the ATM fee is actually rebated. I believe with Schwab this happens at the end of the month while with fidelity you should see it in a couple days.

These cards are probably only available in the Trumpland and hopefully there are good ATM solutions  for guys from other countries.

 

 

 

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There have been some reports on a financial forum, that Visa (not Schwab, Fidelity, or the Cambodian bank) charges a fee even if taking out USD from a Cambodian ATM?

Has any Yank noticed any fees from Schwab or Fidelity when using their card in Cambodia other than the local ATM fee which gets rebated?

I am now also 100% sure that if using the Schwab or Fidelity card in Thailand, that the Visa takes a hidden cut in that the Visa  consumer rate is not the true interbank rate, and this fee could be as high as 1%.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/13/2018 at 2:46 AM, Pdoggg said:

I was checking out exchange rates today and noticed that not all TT Currency Exchanges have exactly the same rate.   When I checked some had 33.04 baht per USD and some others had 33.07 baht per USD.

I have noticed that most of them tend to have the same rate.  But one noticeable exception are the two booths on Second road on the opposite side to the Antique store.  The one nearest to Pattaya Tai has the same rate as the rest, but the one further away from Tai, and nearer to where a lot of Indians stay has a lower rate.  Is there a connection I wonder.  Maybe some savvy Indians check before they come and read TT is the best and by default head straight to the first one they see.  

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Quote

I have noticed that most of them tend to have the same rate.  But one noticeable exception are the two booths on Second road on the opposite side to the Antique store.  The one nearest to Pattaya Tai has the same rate as the rest, but the one further away from Tai, and nearer to where a lot of Indians stay has a lower rate.  Is there a connection I wonder.  Maybe some savvy Indians check before they come and read TT is the best and by default head straight to the first one they see.  

 

If I have to bring freinds around to change money, I check out the 5 places.

There are two TTs near Boyztown, on opposite sides of 2nd Road.

Then check out the antique store and the two TTs between Soi 16 and Soi 17 on opposite sides of 2nd Road (Actually I think it's name may be Thapppraya once you cross Pattaya Tai).

I usually find that the TTs have a different rates. 

Also seem that most independent exchange booths are Tsomething and pained yellow, maybe trying to fool people.

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Was fooling around with the Visa Exchange Rate calculator today.

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

Observation 1:

Let's say you are an American using the Fidelity or Schwab card which has a 0% bank fee and also rebates the 220 baht ATM fee.

You fool around with the calculator a bit (on December 26)and  you see:

1 United States Dollar = 32.723728 Thai Baht

Wow that looks great! But it's not the rate you get with the Fidelity or Schwab card.

The 32.72 rate is if you had a visa card issued by a Thai bank and you took out money in the USA.

The rate you actually get is: 

1 Thai Baht = 0.030795 United States Dollar 

Looks like giberish and most of us ignore that sort of rate.

You need to take the inverse (1/x)of 0.030795 which works out to 32.47 and change.

This is by no means a bad rate, in fact it equals what you could get at Super Rich Thailand today at the Rail Link in Suvaranaphumi.

Observation 2:

The Visa Calculator updates once a day.

From the website:

Quote

Rates apply to the date the transaction was processed by Visa; this may differ from the actual date of the transaction.

With the Fidelity card, it seems like it gets processed by Visa right away.  I tool out the money at 16:30 on December 25 in Thailand which would be 4:30 December 25 on the East Coast in the USA..  When I checked online an hour or so later, the transaction had already processed.

Since exchange rate seems locked in early in the day, you wouldn't want to make a transaction if the exchange rate has moved up intraday.  Coversely, if the exchange rate goes down intraday, you would want to hustle to the ATM and take out money.

I suppose the rate day begins when the rate is loaded onto the Visa site, and transactions processed by Visa that rate day get the rate. With Fidelity, you are clear about the rate soon after the transaction.

What was posted on Fidelity did not reflect the ATM fee rebate.  Last time I called and it was cleared up but this time I won't call and see if it gets cleared up.  

I reckon that once you find a Thai ATM in which Fidelity/Schwab gives the rebate automatically, it is good to stick with that particular ATM.

So it seems possible to game the system a bit, past posting using a horse racing analogy. 

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On 12/26/2018 at 5:40 PM, Pdoggg said:

Last time I called and it was cleared up but this time I won't call and see if it gets cleared up.  

Woke up today at noon on the 28th and the rebate was in my account without need for a phone call for the transaction at 16:30 on Christmas.

Quote

ADJUST FEE CHARGED ATM FEE REBATE (Cash)
Amount    $6.77

Looking forward to using Cambodian ATMs where it will be a truly no fee withdrawal as long as I can find an ATM which reposts the transaction properly so the ATM fee gets rebated.

Not all Phnom Penh ATMs have a $500 limit and none have higher AFAIK.

If anyone knows ATMs around the Riverside that will spit out 500 or more please post.

I believe with the Schwab card you can have a $1000 limit which means you can take out 30,000 baht but with Fidelity they hold you to a $500 limit. Maybe you can do two transactions in a row, but my objective is to try to minimize the ATM that Fidelity rebates because I hate waste and also there is probably an unstated limit as to how many rebates they will permit. 

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2 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

I believe with the Schwab card you can have a $1000 limit which means you can take out 30,000 baht but with Fidelity they hold you to a $500 limit. Maybe you can do two transactions in a row, but my objective is to try to minimize the ATM that Fidelity rebates because I hate waste and also there is probably an unstated limit as to how many rebates they will permit. 

Fidelity's limit is $500 a day. See section 4.1:

https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/PDF_Fidelity_Check_Card_Agreement.pdf

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  • 1 month later...
  • 3 weeks later...

My experience with the Fidelity card has been quite good.  Rate seems to be about what I could get at TT in Pattaya.

============================================================================================================

Looking at the Super Rich website, it used to be that the rate if changing USD to baht you would get at Headquarters was only about 2 satang better than what you would get at the airport.  But looking at the website recently it's 16 satang better per dollar.

https://www.superrichthailand.com/#!/en/exchange

This doesn't mean much if changing a couple of hundred dollars but if changing 10K there would be a 1600 baht difference between Headquarters and the Airport Rail Link.

My guess if Super Rich expanded their spread at the airport then the other Rail Link moneychangers are doing the same.

But if you look carefully at the difference in rates between HQ and the Rail Link the difference in rates only applies to changing dollars to baht but not baht to dollars. 

As I mentioned before when travelling home to the States change your baht to 1 dollar bills for the best rate.  Some of the money changers may have a limited amount of 1 dollar bills though.

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I looked at the VISA exchange rate yesterday and at that time it was very slightly better than TT Exchange and was the same as Vasu (BKK). But the VISA rate stays in effect for 24 hours I think? And the TT currency rates can change quickly. A few days ago I looked at the opening rate at TT. In the early afternoon there was a different rate that changed to still another rate while I was using an ATM next to TT. There was a fourth rate posted when I went out for the evening. Who knows how many times the TT rate changed during the day. 

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1 hour ago, xyzzy said:

But the VISA rate stays in effect for 24 hours I think? And the TT currency rates can change quickly.

I think that is the secret to gaming the system.

On a day that I do a transaction, by the time I get home, I see Fidelity has already debited the money.  Then the next day they give me back the dollar equivalent of 220 baht.

So if the amount of bahts you can get per dollar is rising intraday then one wouldn't want to make a transaction that day getting the stale Visa price.

OTOH, if the amount of baht you can get per dollar is declining intraday one would want to hustle to the machine to take advantage of the stale rate.

Big moves are likely to occur when the BOT or the Fed make major announcements.

I am not sure when the Visa day begins. Might be midnight EST but maybe not.

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

For guys not to famiiar with the website it can be a bit a bit confusing.   For Fidelity and Schwab you would be inputing a 0% bank . The rate you will be getting is listed like

Quote

1 Thai Baht = 0.032069 United States Dollar

Currencies fluctuate every day. The rate shown is effective for transactions submitted to Visa on February 24, 2019, with a bank foreign transaction fee of 0.0%.

 Then you need to take the inverse of 0.032069 which is 31.18 to see the rate you are getting.

If when fooling around with the website you see something like 1 USD =31.38 Thai Baht that is NOT the rate you are getting. 

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On 2/24/2019 at 2:09 AM, Pdoggg said:

This doesn't mean much if changing a couple of hundred dollars but if changing 10K there would be a 1600 baht difference between Headquarters and the Airport Rail Link. 

You might want to have something to carry your 300,000+ baht in. This USD10k thing would drive me crazy. If I did it the exchange rate would probably get much better in the following days. :blink:

21 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

OTOH, if the amount of baht you can get per dollar is declining intraday one would want to hustle to the machine to take advantage of the stale rate.

If you saw a sharp decline at TT the VISA rate would likely be better. But in my reality I get money from my debt card when I need it 30,000 baht at a time. 

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