The Russians Are Leaving! The Russians Are Coming!

[Pdoggg]

 Fairly decent article by Forbes which touches on the Pattaya Condo market:

 

Russian tour groups are known in the hospitality trade as cheapskates

 

Who would buy a condo is sleazy old Pattaya? With its filthy beach, filthy people, and pathetic old and young prostitutes?

 

 

Quote

 

The Russians are leaving! The Russians are leaving!

 

I was in the process of writing about the drop in Russian visitors to Thailand and the region as the result the devaluation of the ruble. Now it turns out that the plunge in January was more drastic than forecast, as the Bangkok Post reported March 20.

 

There were 46% fewer Russian arrivals in Thailand in January 2015 than the year before: 145,605 this year versus 269,479 in January 2014. While the December-January period is always Thailand’s high tourism season, bear in mind that tourism in early 2014 was depressed by Bangkok street rallies that ultimately led to the May military coup.

 

The huge January 2015 drop in Russian visitors followed year-on-year declines of approximately 27%, 23% and 21% in October, November and December, respectively, according to the Tourism Authority of Thailand.  In the 4th quarter of 2013, there were more than 600,00 Russian visitors to Thailand, while in the 4th quarter of 2014 there were fewer than 200,000 according to the PATA (Pacific Asia Travel Association) mPower database.

 

Back in 2005, when the ruble’s long run was taking off and the value against the US dollar was three times more than it is today, a little over 100,000 Russians visited Thailand. In 2013, the numbers had ballooned to 1.7 million. Russians are by far the largest group of European visitors to Thailand. Along with China, Thailand has been the most popular Asian destination for Russians in recent years; no other Asian countries come close. Of course, for eastern-dwelling Russians, a jaunt to China is less expensive than to Thailand so, as seen in the box below, Russian travel trends to China haven’t been affected as much by the ruble plunge. 

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/susancunningham/files/2015/03/EDit-Best-border-quarterly-4-countries.png

Russian visitors to Thailand, China, Cambodia, Singapore – 2014

After Thailand, Russians’ favorite  Southeast Asian countries in recent years have been, in order,  Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and Philippines. The sudden popularity of Vietnam is intriguing: Almost 365,000 Russians visited last year, according to PATA numbers. Sure, Vietnam used to be a Soviet satellite well populated with Russian advisers, but before 2012 the Russian traffic was negligible.

 

Despite the continuing state of martial law and the Russian downfall, overall tourism to Thailand has characteristically bounced back.  A total of 2.65 million visitors of all nationalities arrived in January 2015, according to PATA. That’s even more than the 2.31 million arrivals of January 2013 (that is, back when Thailand was politically stable). What Thailand lost in Russian tourists in the past year has been more than matched by upticks in visitor numbers from neighboring countries, Hong Kong and, most especially, mainland China–the last group violating so many Thai customs and stirring so much antagonism that I’ll have to address it another day. Not that Russian tourists are known for their manners either, especially when drunk.

 

Russians Fueled Pattaya Real Estate Market

Of course, there have been knock-on effects on restaurants, tour companies and hotels catering to Russian tourists, even if Russian tour groups are known in the hospitality trade as cheapskate”low yield” tourists.  Russians that do come are discovering that smartphones and electronics are no longer cheaper in Thailand than at home. The value of the ruble has fallen about 50% against the Thai baht in the past year.

 

But who would guess that the Russian declines would also have such a major impact on the condo market in Pattaya, as reported by the Bangkok Post last month. Who would buy a condo is sleazy old Pattaya? With its filthy beach, filthy people, and pathetic old and young prostitutes? A lot of Russians, apparently. According to the Post story, in 2013 Pattaya accounted for 19% of all Thailand real estate sales–and about 65% of those were to Russians. The “deputy honorary consul of the Russian Federation” for the Pattaya area says that half of Russian visitors to Thailand in 2014 spent at least some time in Pattaya.

 

The trend was to buy a condo and then rent it out to other Russians when not owner occupied. Some owners are now struggling now to meet their payments.  Others that are fully paid up still want to sell, even at a loss, to get hard currency.  Construction projects are being called off as well. Andrey Snetkov, who works for a Russian travel agency, says that Russians can no longer easily get bank loans for travel. He also notes that citizens of other countries in the Commonwealth of Independent States are being affected by similar pressures.

 

Pattaya: Russian Media Hub

There’s a Russian-language magazine that specializes in Pattaya properties as well but the editor says she hasn’t seen a drop in advertising because she is targeting “the premium market.” (Premium in Pattaya?). The operators of Russian-language TV and radio stations in Pattaya don’t profess to be concerned either.

 

I suppose I was surprised by so much Russian participation in Pattaya real estate because the degraded seaside city east of Bangkok is usually the first way station when prepaid package tours from a new market start arriving in Thailand. Some tourists from the particular market gradually become willing to pay slightly more for prettier surroundings and cleaner beaches and move up to Phuket, maybe Samui and Koh Chang.

 

The annual Chinese tourist numbers to Thailand piled up for years–into the hundreds of thousands–without being very visible in most of Thailand. That’s because the Chinese were coming on super-cheap tours and staying in low-star hotels in Pattaya or in giant blocks on outer Bangkok expressways.  I started noticing Chinese tourists around the time annual arrivals surpassed 1 million. That’s when some began staying in two- and three-star hotels in inner Bangkok, tearing through hypermarts and dispersing cigarette butts outside McDonald’s outlets.

 

Russians followed the pattern to some extent–moving on up–though I have never noticed that many in Bangkok. They still rank as the third-largest visitor group to Thailand, after Chinese and Malaysians. Russians certainly are a presence in Phuket, where charter flights from Russian cities still fly directly, though there are  fewer in number than last year. There have long been rumors that super-wealthy Russians were buying villa condos and other properties in Phuket.

 

Then, in the past few years, as  Australia and Singapore enacted measures to stem purchases by mainland Chinese of high-end residential properties, some wealthy Chinese were supposedly investing in bolt-holes in Thailand. In the Post’s story on Pattaya property woes, some real estate brokers suggest that Chinese buyers will fill in for the Russians soon enough. And why shouldn’t new middle-class Chinese have their own bolt-holes? The problem is, at least for the near future, Chinese are grappling with their own credit crunches.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/susancunningham/2015/03/25/as-ruble-plunges-so-does-russian-tourism-in-thailand/

[Guest Lumix]

They never really bothered me to much,  just use to smile when they would hog a baht bus and look at you as if they owned  the only one in Pattaya lol.  It did piss me a little when you would be waiting in a queue to be served in say 7/11 and they would try push in, but id smile and laugh as it puzzled them more and the cashier would ask for me to hand over my items so they would have to wait. 

 

They don't seem to be many use the bars we use as they have wife's or gf's in tow so no problems there,  lets hope them leaving doesn't put prices up as Thais normally do when not a lot of customer ,  never worked that one out 

[EyeMahk]

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/susancunningham/2015/03/25/as-ruble-plunges-so-does-russian-tourism-in-thailand/

 

Russians that do come are discovering that smartphones and electronics are no longer cheaper in Thailand than at home. The value of the ruble has fallen about 50% against the Thai baht in the past year.

 

But who would guess that the Russian declines would also have such a major impact on the condo market in Pattaya, as reported by the Bangkok Post last month.

 

 

This point is key.  For any Russians that bought condos when the ruble was double the value it is now, they have a 100% gain if they can sell it near their purchase price (not a given, certainly!).

 

I'll take the Russians every day, and twice on Sundays, if the alternative is Chinese Mainlanders.

[Pdoggg]

The grand plan to lure back the Russians are weight loss programs for Russian women.    

 

 

Thailand to develop tourist spots to attract more Russian visitors

 

BANGKOK, 9 April 2015, (NNT) – The Ministry of Tourism and and Sports and the Tourism Authority of Thailand are joining hands developing tourist spots in response particularly to Russian tourists’ demands.     

According to the Minister of Tourism and Sports, Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul, the new tourist spots are aimed at drawing tourists from the already overpopulated areas such as Bangkok and Pattaya to other cities.

 

The ministry plans to come up with traveling itinerary that particularly responds to Russian tourists’ demands; for example, tie-in weight loss programs, which target female Russian travelers.

 

Ms. Kobkarn expects the plan to boost the number of Russian tourists, which currently stands at approximately 1 million, by 5% next year.

 

A Thai-Russian joint committee will soon be formed, which will be tasked with formulating marketing plans to entice more Russian travelers, especially those who like sport and those traveling with family members, to visit Thailand, said the minister.

http://thaibulletin.blogspot.com/2015/04/thailand-to-develop-tourist-spots-to.html

[rxpharm]

Until the Ruble recovers, all plans will be for naught.

[Billy69]

The way the Euro n Pound is going Russians won't be the only ones...

[skyblue]

"There were 46% fewer Russian arrivals in Thailand in January 2015 than the year before:"

 

Good. Lets hope the remaining 54% are absent next year

[sustra2]

i guess that after this video a lot of russians will still go to Thailand ( couldn't find the version with english subtitles....)

[notagooname]

wow, the guy that bumped him hard i though was going to knock him on his ass.  Thats crazy te reactions they got.

[SiamSam]

Poor Russia. It has such a long road to travel. They might have money and global might but they remain lightyears behind enlightenment. It will take another decade, perhaps two before they come around. So sad. 

[anubis009]

wow I thought the last guy that split the "couple up" was going to go ape on that guy. As you said SiamSam its sad that attitudes in Russia are still a long way behind the rest of the world.

[Pdoggg]

This stories author from the left wing Huffington Post says "he's no prude" but Pattaya is getting what it deserves.  Seems there is a big downward pressure on hotel prices.

 

 

0

Pattaya is a hellhole. Granted, I stayed there 10 years ago, but Thailand’s pleasure dens aren’t known for their reformation and rehabilitation. If anything, I imagine this particular seaside town has gotten seedier and scummier, with drugs and prostitution around every corner, and thugs eyeing up tourists like midnight snacks.

 

Economic downturns certainly don’t help such situations. When has a moral interzone ever shrugged off its iniquity when the clientele goes even further downscale?

 

That’s exactly the issue in Pattaya, where hotels are “struggling to survive” due to “Chinese travel agents” pushing for reduced room rates. The issue is the city’s reliance on Chinese tourists, who were actively courted in recent years to make up for the loss of European and Russian visitors.

 

Which makes complete sense. The past years have seen Goa explode as Russia’s favorite hedonist hotspot, and well-heeled Europeans find better bargains closer to home. Those euros that still come into Thailand are diverted to the islands, favored by youngsters on gap years and fleeing flat economies at home. If they do somehow wind up in Pattaya, 22-year-old British yobs aren't exactly high-end hotel guests.

 

The Bangkok Post reports:

Travel agents live and die on booking commissions, and they're the first to smell blood in the tourism waters. During those rare times when they’re blessed with bargaining power, they don’t hesitate to strongarm hoteliers and other local tourism interests.

The Thai Hotels Association (THA) Eastern Chapter said some local hotels, which may not have strong marketing networks and cash flow like big international chains, had slashed their room rates after a lot of pressure.

Many five-star local hotels sell their rooms at 2,200 baht per night to survive, while four-star hotels charge about 1,400 baht and lower-grade hotels charge only 800 baht.

"Many negative factors have dragged down the hotel business in Pattaya since 2014. Room rates are down by 30-40% from 2013," said Sanpech Supabowornsthian, president of the Eastern Chapter.

Last month, the occupancy rate of local hotels in Pattaya stood at 30%, with some seeing occupancy as low as single digits. However, international hotel chains ran around 65-70%.

According to the Post, Pattaya has about 2,000 hotels with 136,000 rooms. If I had to guess, I’d say half are whorehouses. So, good luck Pattaya. I'm no prude, but you're getting what you deserve.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/van-winkles/thailands-sin-cities-stru_b_7805096.html

[Trenton42]

Poor Russia. It has such a long road to travel. They might have money and global might but they remain lightyears behind enlightenment. It will take another decade, perhaps two before they come around. So sad. 

 

It'll take a generation or two.

[Pdoggg]

The Russians are leaving but the Chinese are coming.

 

Fuzzy math though.  

 

 

 

An addition of one million Chinese tourists are expected to visit Pattaya each year after Air Asia has agreed to operate two new direct routes to two Chinese cities scheduled to be launched on September 25.

 

In order to accommodate the anticipated rise of Chinese tourists visiting the world’s famous seaside resort town on the eastern coast, the Pattaya city administration held a meeting with concerned agencies to discuss preparations which include infrastructure development to cope with expected increased arrivals.

 

Mr Sutham Petkate, Pattaya city deputy clerk, said Friday that at least one million more Chinese tourists would flock to Pattaya each year thanks to the opening of the two new direct routes from Utapao to Nan Ning and to Nan Xang.

 

He pointed out at the lack of a mass transit system between Utapao airport and Pattaya as well as other eastern towns.

 

Air Asia plans to operate four flights a week between Utapao and Nan Ning and three flights a week between Utapao and Nan Xang using two 180-seat Airbus 4320 aircrafts.

 

The airline has launched a promotion programme offering special price starting at 990 baht for a single flight, said Ms Watchuree Kantapeng, director of ground operations of the airline.

 

She said the airline has confidence in the capacity of Pattaya to attract more Chinese tourists.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-million-more-chinese-tourists-are-expected-to-visit-pattaya-each-year-after-launch-of-two-direct-flight-routes

[globetrotter]

FFS it pains me to say this but I think I'll even take the Ruskies over the Chinese, as its hard to imagine any nationality being ruder than our Russian comrades

[rxpharm]

FFS it pains me to say this but I think I'll even take the Ruskies over the Chinese, as its hard to imagine any nationality being ruder than our Russian comrades

 

feat not globetrotter, the Chinese gov't is giving lessons for the Chinese tourists on how to behave themselves overseas. Over time hopefully they will improve.

 

On the other hand I think the projections are optimistic and the average Chinese tourist probably won't spend as much as a Western tourist - when it comes to the p4p scene.

[globetrotter]

feat not globetrotter, the Chinese gov't is giving lessons for the Chinese tourists on how to behave themselves overseas. Over time hopefully they will improve.

On the other hand I think the projections are optimistic and the average Chinese tourist probably won't spend as much as a Western tourist - when it comes to the p4p scene.

We can only hope but to be honest I'm not overly optimistic on this one

[strocube]

When I was in Pattaya, there were huge groups of Chinese tourists. I found them rather amusing. They all wore the same color t-shirts, and would follow a tour leader holding up a flag that was the same color as the group shirts. Never had any issues with any of them. They looked like families on vacation.

Shared a van with a pair of really cute Chinese girls who were on holiday on a ride from Pattaya to the ferry to Koh Samet. They were friendly and spoke excellent English.

[globetrotter]

When I was in Pattaya, there were huge groups of Chinese tourists. I found them rather amusing. They all wore the same color t-shirts, and would follow a tour leader holding up a flag that was the same color as the group shirts. Never had any issues with any of them. They looked like families on vacation.

Shared a van with a pair of really cute Chinese girls who were on holiday on a ride from Pattaya to the ferry to Koh Samet. They were friendly and spoke excellent English.

The city I live in has a huge Chinese population (second biggest Chinatown in NA) so I see it first hand everyday

[Pdoggg]

from Pattaya to the ferry to Koh Samet. 

 

 

 How did you like Ko Samet Stro?  Which beach did you stay on?

[Pdoggg]

For the first time since before the Covid-19 pandemic flights directly from Moscow to U-Tapao airport near Pattaya resume Saturday, November 26th.

According to Pattaya mayor Poramese Ngampiches, this is welcomed by authorities and should see significant increases in Russian tourists locally. The relaunch of local direct flights from Russia will be spearheaded by flight ZF2847 arriving at U-Tapao this weekend.

Russian tourists have taken over as the number one tourist in Phuket, according to authorities there, driven by direct daily flights. Pattaya has seen many more Russian visitors in the past few weeks but Indian tourists continue to be number one locally.

According to Poramese, this should help the local economy and businesses bringing more tourists directly from Russia to Pattaya.

The Pattaya News notes, however, that some critics online have claimed that many of those coming from Russia are not tourists but rather young Russians on tight budgets attempting to avoid conscription in the ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

Thailand is officially neutral in terms of the Russia/Ukraine war and unlike many other nations has not restricted the travel of Russian nationals.

[outsider]

My first visit to Pats was 2006 and there were some Russians and I know Mainland Chinese were visiting especially during CNY. I was back in 2019 and saw some Russians, but really a mix of Asians (East & South) and Russians. I was in Jomtien recently, and holy crap! I am really surprised this forum has been translated to the Cyrillic alphabet already. I think I heard more Russian spoken than Thai. This wasn't in punting scenes, but just everywhere. Went to Koh Larn for a day and there were Taiwanese and Mainland Chinese on the beach, but the ferry was at least 75% Russian.

I remember the difference in Chiang Mai from 2007 to 2012 when the menus at restaurants went from Thai, English & Japanese to Thai, Chinese and either English or Japanese and seeing wechat and other Chinese app signage everywhere and being a little shocked, but there was definitely more Russian signage in Jomtien than Chinese or Japanese... at least where I was.

[Pdoggg]

27 minutes ago, outsider said:

I was in Jomtien recently, and holy crap! I am really surprised this forum has been translated to the Cyrillic alphabet already.

Jomtien is certainly packed with Russians.  It seems even more than pre-Covid but I can't tell for sure because pre-Covid I was living in farang monger area and now I'm not.

As a kid we were taught that we were the good guys and the Russians downright evil.  But the Russians in Pattaya believe in family values bringing their wives and kids along while the farang are paying for sex with people less than half their age.  There is no doubt the Russians in the Pattaya area have seized the moral high ground!  

[seven]

44 minutes ago, Pdoggg said:

Russians

 

Thailands unconditional welcome to the russkies is being debated in in Europe, and rightly so , imo. I guess money don't smell.

Thailand Cozies up to Russia

Thailand bucks the trend of sanctioning Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, opting to boost trade and tourism ties with Moscow.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/videos/20230130194022610/index.html

https://youtu.be/pF99bhX2fik

 

[Zeppie]

On 11/24/2022 at 12:02 PM, Pdoggg said:

For the first time since before the Covid-19 pandemic flights directly from Moscow to U-Tapao airport near Pattaya resume Saturday, November 26th.

According to Pattaya mayor Poramese Ngampiches, this is welcomed by authorities and should see significant increases in Russian tourists locally. The relaunch of local direct flights from Russia will be spearheaded by flight ZF2847 arriving at U-Tapao this weekend.

Russian tourists have taken over as the number one tourist in Phuket, according to authorities there, driven by direct daily flights. Pattaya has seen many more Russian visitors in the past few weeks but Indian tourists continue to be number one locally.

According to Poramese, this should help the local economy and businesses bringing more tourists directly from Russia to Pattaya.

The Pattaya News notes, however, that some critics online have claimed that many of those coming from Russia are not tourists but rather young Russians on tight budgets attempting to avoid conscription in the ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

Thailand is officially neutral in terms of the Russia/Ukraine war and unlike many other nations has not restricted the travel of Russian nationals.

Nice Pdoggg.  I question how long TH or any other neighboring country will be able to maintain a true neutrality in the region with china infiltration.