rxpharm Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 It's been interesting reading posts from a few board members that Thailand is no longer the destination of choice, that it is finished and needs to be addressed with scathing indictment since they no longer "take care" of the lb oriented tourist or tourists in general Yes indeed, it is entirely all the fault of the Thais who force tourists such as these in the video below to visit LOS and behave in a way that they would not in their home country. http://youtu.be/NTSl_q_qUzw Right, so you now say that only a few tourists ever behave this way in LOS. Let me ask you how many of these tourists would you tolerate before your attitude would change if this was your own country? Ahh, but the reply is that it is your money and you should do as you please, and that you should be treated like a king. In actual fact the problem is on both sides. Before when the tourist numbers were lower, these kinds of instances were much less. Thais would overlook these, but now it has become much more common. So how many people who complain about LOS have actually said anything to these great high value tourists that they are free to behave in this manner? Probably very few. Of course it is much easier to blame the Thais, it is all their fault, they've become greedy, idiots, no longer interested in making tourists feel good about visiting Thailand. It is no small wonder that the attitudes of Thais have changed, looking at the incidents that have been occurring. So how long do you think it would take the Philippines to change if this started happening over there? With the strong influence of Catholicism, I think it would not take long. So then the answer is to visit another destination with lbs, like Columbia, Brazil, etc? The answer is not so simple, and may need to begin with a look in the mirror. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoolpusher Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Dont tell me....... More drunk Ruskys . I see that a lot in Bangkok in the wee small hours , I am surprised there are not more arrests or Fines handed out . Last trip one bloke got dragged to the ATM out side the Nana hotel and fined 5000 bht . for being drunk in public. Very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimslim Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 To be honest I think the problem began with the recession . The old style of tourist - British , European , American all but disappeared or at least their numbers dwindled . These were the people who drank in bars and spent their money in bars , its still that way just in lesser numbers . The tourists who replaced them - Russians , Indian's, Chinese etc just don't seem to have the same bar culture , that may or may not be a good thing but in resorts based solely on entertainment its gonna hit business . I believe in an ever shrinking market the Thai's have got greedy , prices have gone up instead of putting on offers , bill padding , rip offs and bad attitudes are all too common now , instead of encouraging people into bars many seem more content to make a fast buck and alienate them . Too many people believe we owe them a living . There have always been badly behaved drunks in Thailand the English lager lout or the American sailor has just been replaced with a clueless Russian , I don't believe that's the cause . That said I still love the place but its changing but then again in this world nothing stay's the same forever 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxpharm Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 Jimslim, thanks for posting your opinion - while the recession and change in type of tourists also contributed, I do think that there has also been an increase in the number of badly behaved drunks as well, compared to say 7 to 10 years ago. Blaming it all solely on the Thais is a bit simplistic, and they are perhaps a victim of their own success in promoting tourism, and now getting the problems they have now. Last year Thailand had 22 million visitors, the Philippines had 5 million. What do you think would happen if the same number of tourists started visiting the Philippines? I seriously doubt that the current comments some make about the Philippines would still hold, especially if problems like the above video show start to become common place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth007 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 @Rxpharm Interesting read indeed , but it will take more then just a few drunk tourist to keep me away from any tourist destination...... First off all i dont worry to much with them , as long as they dont come and bother me or my girls then all is oke , but even if that happend i will not think for a split sec not to visit Thailand or The Phillippines or any other Asian country just because of that.... I will stop visiting a Asian country or part of it if that is a direct danger to my life , other wise they will still see my ass each year back again and agian , lol Greetz , Stealth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciobha Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 All tourist resorts which have nighttime entertainment of any variety as their main attraction are, sadly, going to be open to an abundance of misbehaving, drunken louts, no matter what nationality they are. At first the pounds/euro/dollars, are enough for the locals to forget the bad behaviour that comes with tourists. A bit like the old story, they are so busy looking at the money in one hand, that they forget about the shit they have to clean up with the other. Think Benidorm, Tenerife etc in the early 80's. The locals were so overwhelmed with the influx of tourists, the bad behaviour was tolerated. Unfortunately, as numbers swelled the drunken misbehaviour increased dramatically, and so the locals got somewhat pissed off and their attitudes, understandably, changed for the worse. Now Thailand, Pattaya in particular is suffering the same fate, only with a different nationality of patronage in the main, and you could argue that a lot, if not most of these people are not getting drunk in the bars, rather from cheap booze sold in 7/11, and the locals are not getting the money in one hand to forget about the shit in the other. But, as Jimslim correctly points out, as numbers have dwindled within the bars and entertainment complexes, rather than introduce offers or attractions to regain some level of custom, as per the Spanish a few years back, they are more intent in going for the quick score. Rip off a farang or two, get a solid income for that one night, and see what tomorrow brings. To hell with the consequences and bad publicity, there will always be one tourist to rip off if things are quiet. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxpharm Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 Stealth and Ciobha - thanks for posting your thoughts. Unfortunately Ciobha, you are correct that many Thais do not look at the long term and plan for the short time score. That being said there are a few board members who blame the situation entirely on the Thais, going so far as stating that bars conspire to fool customers that "superstar" ladyboys are working in the bars by making them have the same nicknames. I think the real solution lies elsewhere. Those that extol the virtues of the Philippines haven't yet thought about what happens there if tourist numbers mushroom into the same as Thailand has been having. I think the real answer might be in tourists behaving as if they are at home - that is less of the drunken "louts" and belief that they should be be entitled to behave as they wish. The less problem tourists there are in any country, the more welcoming the locals will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciobha Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 . I think the real answer might be in tourists behaving as if they are at home - that is less of the drunken "louts" and belief that they should be be entitled to behave as they wish. The less problem tourists there are in any country, the more welcoming the locals will be. Very true RX, but I would guess that heck of a lot of these tourists who misbehave abroad, don't know how to behave at home either. The key difference is that in their local environment, the locals know how to handle them therefore their "loutishness" is less obvious. Put these fools in a foreign country, and there within a problem is strongly brewing. All said and done, I reckon Thailand is far from finished. We may see a few changes in the coming years, some for the good, some not so much, but I for one am a long way off looking elsewhere as my holiday destination of choice. Thailand still has, and IMO always will have, enough going for it to retain my holiday funtime tokens for the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimslim Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I would guess that heck of a lot of these tourists who misbehave abroad, don't know how to behave at home either. That's true for sure , an idiot is an idiot no matter what environment . To be honest RX I think you over estimate the misbehaviour of tourists and the Thai reaction . I've seen Magaluf in Majorca in the late 80's/early 90's , Malia in Crete , Kavos in Corfu ,Playa das Americas in Tenerife same era and I'm not exaggerating to say it was crazy , you had gangs of people running amok smashing up bars and riot police on the streets . I remember a blackout in Magaluf and the holiday makers robbed the shops and rioted with the cops . The point is all these places survived and pretty much reinvented themselves , Thailand has never suffered that to my knowledge . Thailand will have to reinvent itself as a Holiday destination in the future all the publicity over the last few years has been negative . Oh and as a side note if you misbehaved in the Philippines I've no doubt someone would shoot you , they seem to like their guns there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedeman007 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 This is a great topic rxpharm, But, as we all know misbehaving drunk tourists aren't just related to Thailand. This is a problem that exists in every country that is frequented by holidays goers. It is almost as if the "drunkards" forget that they are not at home and decide to take advantage of the situation and act up. A good majority of these types of incidents are simply young guys who are clearly overly intoxicated and want to blow off some steam entirely in the wrong way. I remember how I was in my early 20's, and I can't say that I was a model tourist when I was intoxicated either. I am not making excuses for these drunkards, but it is a fact of life. Some just act a fool when they are wasted. I can recall on a few occasions when I have told a tourist "drunkard" to take a chill pill, even going as far as paying for a taxi ride to get them away from the scene and back to their bed where they belong. I remember another time being in Mexico and bailing out some drunken fool who I didn't even know. You want to talk about drunken fights gone rampant? Just go to Tijuana and watch how many young drunk guys start trouble just for the sake of starting trouble. It's rather amazing actually. It makes LOS look like child's play. I can also agree with the sentiment of some of the other BMs that you mention saying that Thailand is no longer the destination of choice. For me, the luster of Thailand had begun to wear off long before the frequent arrival of the foreign drunkards. It is probably due to what I call "LOS overload" ,having traveled there way too many times, and also living there for about a year. Fact is I am no longer yearning to get back to LOS anytime soon. Does that mean that Thailand is a destination that I will not longer frequent? Probably not, but I am no longer in such a hurry to get back and these days and the "LOS blues" consist mainly of the terrible jet lag lasting for 4-5 days. No longer do I sit and sulk on my couch when I return, and counting the days until I get back. Countdown clocks in my forum profile have never done anything for me. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxpharm Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 Great insights and happy to have Swedeman's thoughts and more from Jimslim, and Ciobha. I will have to defer to Jimslim's experience of badly behaving tourists in other countries, and yes you're probably right that the Filipinos would likely shoot a badly behaving tourist! Of course Swedeman is right about overexposure, and certainly Thailand has boomed for the lb mongers with so much information on the internet from forums, and also paysites that feature lbs. Glad to see that not everyone feels it is all the Thais fault, which really was the intent of this discussion. Also interesting to hear stoolpusher's report of badly behaving drunken tourists being fined. As for reinventing themselves, yes that is probably a necessary step, as their Asean neighbors, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and Myanmar all are competing for the general tourist, but will probably never come close in the lb tourism arena. I think in this area the only other close country would be the Philippines. I suppose that the lb scene in the Philippines is uncharted territory for the lb enthusiast so that would make it an attractive destination, similar to the early days of lb tourism in LOS. I've been there once, back in 2006 and didn't think it was as good as Thailand. However I wouldn't say it is bad either, just different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torurot Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 In many countries the drunken tourist lout behavior would not be tolerated by the locals. You can see why the locals get pissed off, and if it wasn't for the MONEY it generates for them they would hardly tolerate it at all. For myself if a bar is full of pissed louts, tourist or other wise I just move on Thailands not done as a destination until it charges "western" prices. The only problem with moving on else where is that the quality and quantity of LB's is hard to find else where. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snick Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 As the ancient Thai Philosopher once said "Same Same But Different" There have always been tourist ripoffs, I was once given a giant bill at KC3. I carefully separated the recipes into two piles and paid one pile. They said nothing. Another time I was at Super Pussy on Patpong at they tried charging us 1000 Baht entertainment charge, AFTER telling me there was no cover. I called Bullshit, but ended up paying 200 Baht per head to avoid trouble. Paying a girl in advance is always a bad idea, they get to the room and refuse to perform. Its an age old trick. The internet and Social media make it easier for scams to get publicized, but they have always been there. I really haven't seen much change, except drink prices in Nana went up (but it does look like watering down drinks and using fake booze has decreased ). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 It's been interesting reading posts from a few board members that Thailand is no longer the destination of choice, that it is finished and needs to be addressed with scathing indictment since they no longer "take care" of the lb oriented tourist or tourists in general I do feel sympathy and do believe that I understand what prompted this thread...... Some BMs here are just negative folks...Half empty folks...Pessimists...And they ain't just negative about Thailand and the ladyboy scene...They are negative about everything...Whenever they get a chance to be negative they just splash their negative all over everything...They don't much care where it falls......... Now I ain't been to Thailand in while...But in past years I did travel there with some frequency and spent a great deal of my time there...And every time I visited it had changed some...That is the very nature of social institutions...They are dynamic...They are ever changing...Ever adapting...And every time I visited I brought a bit of my culture along...Every time I returned home I brought a bit of their culture back with me...Multiply that by thousands of tourists and thousands of encounters and thousands of cultural clashes...... Things change...always....Whether the change is good or bad is up to each of us to decide.... The Bard wrote centuries back..."Why, then, ’tis none to you, for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." We can all do our part to make it good simply by thinking good........ I feel very sorry for those negative eyed folks...But it ain't my job to change their views...It is my option however, to avoid their views...... And sometimes to tell them to fuck off when the opportunity arises........ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrysingapore Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 To be honest RX I think you over estimate the misbehaviour of tourists and the Thai reaction . I've seen Magaluf in Majorca in the late 80's/early 90's , Malia in Crete , Kavos in Corfu ,Playa das Americas in Tenerife same era and I'm not exaggerating to say it was crazy , you had gangs of people running amok smashing up bars and riot police on the streets . I remember a blackout in Magaluf and the holiday makers robbed the shops and rioted with the cops . I agree……you have not seen anything in Thailand! All you get here is a few random drunks. Magaluf!! Holy shit. Once and never again I was staying at a friends villa at the north end of the island…..stayed in Magaluf itself just for the last night before early flight home the next morning. The dates were "Glasgow Fair" - late July, when most of Glasgow heads to cheap sunny destinations in Spain to get as shit-faced as they can for a week. Half of those people are Rangers supporters, the other half Celtic supporters (soccer/football for the non-Brits on the forum) In our 20 minute taxi drive along the main beach road heading to our hotel, we must have seen about 6 pitch battles going on outside various bars/restaurants/cafes………and this was breakfast time!!! Thailand is a tranquil oasis compared to other places!! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth007 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 @Rxpharm I personaly thinks that this is a much deeper probleem with a much wider roots and very difficult to fix or to change...... I did not read the feedback that you where talking abouth on the other forums , but i do get a feeling that it`s the same feed back i am reading and feel among the mongers on the different GG forums , that the mongering way is changing and that it will not be the same or any left between now and let say 10 to 15 years..... It`s indeed very difficult to point the finger and say this is the probleem and we are going to fix it this and that way...... I think most things are the way it is because of the economic crisis and as always everything revolve around money money money , do you think the Thai want the russians there if it was not for the money ???? That you get to see video like this and read and hear other story how tourist misbehave is this the thai fault , just because they are passive people and and are looking for a way to keep there economy afloat..... For the note of the phillippines , i personaly dont think that it will get to be such a run as with Thailand for the simple reason that The Phillippines is not a tourist destination and it will never be.... The few Korean that are investing in the hotels are doing this for there own folks back home........ Just as Thailand the Phillippines also turn to emerging market to get more income by the name of India , but it`s not such a booming market as they have hope for..... Tourist do misbehave in The phillippines , but they will end up in jail with in minuut having to pay big fine to get there ass out , tourist will not get shot so easy as have been said but like that guy was punching the guy car glass , he would have get his ass kick big time by the owner.... Qua LB the sene is not so uncharted territory as you may think , offcourse the lb clubs are not in amount as in LOS , but the socal media side is booming with the new breed of internet mongers as they are been call..... Manila , Cebu , Davao , Cagayan De Oro , Antipolo and Olongapo are the main ladyboy hotspots right now , because of this mass socal media presence and mass invashion of Arab ladyboy lovers all over the place , follow by there Korean , Chinees and Japanees collega and at the end follow by us from the west and the rest of the world...... The quality may not be the same , but i can bet you that the amount of hidden ladyboy is enormous and will be between now and 10 year nearly the same as in thailand.... Greetz , Stealth 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomcat Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 One thing is without doubt and that is the falling footfall in some Pattaya LB bars . Last night Lita even turned the lights out and sat outside as no customers ,also B Boom and Obsessions had not one customer when i popped in. Even the GG Bars are less packed . 2008 has a lot to answer for and it seems like the Sex Trade in general world wide took a hit. Most Girly Bars in London have seen their trade in half since 2008 and also same in Hong Kong etc etc.. Thailand is no different and has suffered. In Walking Street the biggest attraction is the kids flip dancing in the street...or the Cowboy Magician..lol 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hefe Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 One thing that hasn't been mentioned concerning this is the deteriorating state of the russian economy. It will probably be limping for at least a couple of years anyway & that will decimate the middle class tour packages that Pattaya gets, some may have rushed & bought holiday packages while their ruble was worth still something... if they didn't need a car or washing machine instead, but after that I believe the Russian touristic herd will thin out. So on one hand the number of drunk/sullen comrades may start to dwindle pretty soon, but that may not be good for Pattaya's big economic picture. I also agree with Stealth that the PI is pretty undeveloped for mass tourism & easy mongering outside Angeles, more work in arrangements than most folks want to do on holiday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketSquirrel Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 One thing that hasn't been mentioned concerning this is the deteriorating state of the russian economy. To me, this year, Pattaya feels quite different to me on this trip, especially along Walking Street and Beach Road. A much nicer energy. Coincidence? I think not. I used to visit Phuket regularly but stopped doing so a few years back because I found it unpleasant to be around both the tourists there and the locals. With regard to the OP, I agree that the subject is a bit complicated. Factors to be considered include quality of the tourist to Thailand, the business practices of the locals, and also the ethnocentricity of many of the Thai people. Thailand's adult tourist areas do not seem to attract the West's finest. It would be so easy for those in the tourist areas to conclude that Westerners are not smart and have absolutely no manners. I believe that there is a very marked difference between the tourists who visit Pattaya and Patong and those who are truly here for temples and beaches. I find it uncomfortable when I see visitors ignore the most basic of Thai values, whether it's going without a shirt, screaming loudly at a waiter in a restaurant or being intimate or suggestive in public. This is not occasional, it's the norm in the tourist areas here. The simplest of manners fall into the "Thai Culture 101" chapter of any travel book or on any website. The argument that "it's my money, I will spend it as I like" holds up when referring to unacceptable behavior by the Thais (such as pressure for lady drinks), but IMO, it does not justify culturally insensitive behavior toward our hosts. I think that the bad behavior of tourists in other countries does indeed put the issue in perspective, but I also feel that bad behavior elsewhere does not make the negative stuff that goes on in Thailand any more acceptable. I don't think that I will lose my love for Thailand any time soon and it will probably remain my first choice as a travel destination. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pentire Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Thailand, finished as a LB monger destination? Not a chance, if anything it's gaining momentum so far as the ladyboy shagging business is concerned, there was a time when for many of us the very idea of humping a member of the third gender was strictly taboo, now it's very acceptable, almost fashionable and main stream. Twenty years ago LB bars were few, one or two in Pattaya and a similar number in Bangkok, just look at the options we have now. I've ventured to various destinations on vacation in the last five years including Australia, Brazil (Rio) Dominican Republic (Sosua) Jamaica, Barbados, Virgin Islands, Spain, Portugal, Germany, France, Italy, Czech Rep and let me tell you, there is no where I get a bigger rush than when that air plane door opens at Suvarnabhumi. Thailand for me just gets better and better. Also, I'm a night owl, seldom does my night out (in Pattaya) begin before 11.00pm with a conclusion around sun rise or an hour before, it's only occasionally that I observe over the top loutish behaviour from drunken, obnoxious thugs and when I do the Thais soon deal with it swiftly and effectively, indeed sometimes heading for the beach on my bike around lunchtime I find myself following the caged police van with just the one or two bruised and battered farangs chained together, probably on their way to the Jomtien court house. I did explore Cambodia for a fortnight in 2006 and I'm yet to make my maiden visit to The Philippines, but so far as my Ladyboy mongering hobby is concerned, it's all about Thailand and long may that continue. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnykey Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I have just got back from my 27th trip and cannot see any waning. On the contrary ,as every trip i find more and more new ladyboys joining the scene. I usually have a habit of repeat liasons with previous encounters i have known for a while, with a number of new ones thrown into the mix, but the trip just gone had the pleasure of 18 first timers with a few of them getting repeat business. So my emphatic opinion is the ladyboy scene is going from strength to strength, Cheers DK 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTel Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I too have just got back from a trip and similar to DK, I have my repeat liasons with Lady's I have know for many years and also dabbled in pastures fresh, must say for my own feeling I will never tire of Thailand and especially Pattaya which I like to consider as my second Home. I should add that I first came to Pattaya in 1981 and have also lived there from 1996 to 2002, I don't know any more how many trips I have made there over the years as the memory banks aren't what they used to be . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyzzy Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I think Thailand is getting better as a LB venue. If I still just went to Pattaya for GGs I probably would be thinking the end is near. I use to frequent the GG GoGos where the bar fines and GG prices have now gotten crazy. But in the LB scene the prices are still reasonable and selection good/better. It has gotten a bit more expensive finding a long term (2 months) place to stay in a good location. As far as I'm concerned many Thais never really cared for us much anyway. After all they live in the greatest country on Earth and we are infidels. I don't see it as something new just something I came to understand over the years. In all the years I've been coming to SE Asia I've been to Angeles City seven times. I use to go every trip and was there before ever going to Thailand. My longest trip was one month. I really don't want to go back to the Philippines. I'm just burned out on the place. And I can't see myself strolling into Margarita Station with a LB on my arm. Attitudes seem better there but danger and police corruption can be much worse. So it's back to Pattaya for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxpharm Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Great to hear from so many board members so far and it seems that most feel the LB scene in Thailand - although facing some difficulties, is still number one. We will have to see if Stealth's prediction that in 10 years the Philippines could be the no. 1 place for lbs, but you never know, China could be a dark horse in all this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globetrotter Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 so xyzzy how dangerous is the PI these days and what kind of dangers are we talking about here (I think I have an idea anyway) very curious and interested to hear your (or anyone else familiar,) thoughts on the matter. Also China really Rx? I would never have guessed that there was any kind of scene there at all, or would ever be for that matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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