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The Vanishing Ways of Thailand that us Farangs will miss


Rom

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I am starting this thread as I wait at Suvarnabhumi airport for my flight back home after another exhilarating visit to the Kingdom of All Carnal Indulgences.  It was perhaps my 70th or 80th such visit, maybe more.  I started coming more than 30 years ago and have to have averaged at least 2 trips per year.  Over those 30 years I have metamorphosed from a starry-eyed backbacker too self-assured to pay for sex into a crushed-by-life old faun resigned to having more money than I will ever be able to spend on sex with the time and stamina I have left.  But it was not just me who changed.  So did Thailand.  In so many ways, mainly for the Thais themselves who went from a poverty rate of 70% of the population in the 1980s to less than 7% currently.  This is a major, major societal shift with broader change manifestations than the diminishing availability of the cheap sex young partners we farangs grew to love Thailand for and with our stepped up presence induced some of the very vanishings we will come to miss.

This thread will serve to record my and other BMs' memories and reflections on Thailand as it makes the ultimate transition from an upper middle income economy (currently) to a high income one in the 2030s (World Bank projection).   So much of what endeared us to Thailand has been and will continue to be lost in that transition.  And I am not just talking about the sex.

By chance during this just-finished trip I came across at the Canterbury Tales bookshop a Thai-authored book in English called "The Vanishing Face of Thailand" which I bought on the spot because the title matched the tag I've used for a few of my threads here at LBR: "vanishing Thailand."  The book is more narrowly focused than my feelings of "vanishing Thailand" as it covers only areas of traditional craftmanship being lost to modernity.  Moreover the book was published in 1993 which is only a few years after I started coming to Thailand, so it means that face of Thailand was already vanishing before I showed up.  But the book's broader message remains valid even more today:  with more education and social mobility, Thais are no longer bound to traditions with heartfelt dedication and acceptance of the hardships that go with it.  So, according to the book, in the 1990s craftsmen stopped bothering to spend a week's labor to make a single Thai-God papier-mache mask or a month to make a hand woven cloth with intricate ancestral patterns.   I think we can extrapolate the "loss of craftmanship" to the Thai sex workers who when I started mongering here eagerly sought farangs for open-ended GFE LTs, which is no longer the case...

In the coming posts I will focus on specific "vanishing Thailand" developments and urge all BMs to do the same.  For now I will post the pic of the book that inspired me to start this thread.  I read it from cover to cover and in the end left it in my Pattaya hotel room, so chances are it will make its way back to the Canterbury Tales, a wonderful bookshop labor-of-love that I am afraid will soon become part of my "vanishing Thailand" and I will miss it dearly.

Rom

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Glad to see someone who dares dealing with the subject. I hope that you will add your comments based on your personal experoence after you summarize the book. I have first visited Thailand in 2011, what makes be look like a newby compared to you. I have been to Thailand for the last time more than 5 years ago. I could add my comments about fantasies or promises of cheap ladyboy whores country, how the LOS hasn't granted me so many smiles, or add comments about farangs and/or country fellows (who are not the worst farangs in Thailand though). 

Looking forward to reading your posts.  

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I recognize the theme of this discussion, but as to the fact that there are less young Thai lb's,(I was going to say young men, but thought better of it), moving to BKK or Pattaya. Yes, maybe, but the other two sources, Laos and Cambodia are nowhere near in the state of progression as Thailand is. They need an income like there is no tomorrow. I am sure that they will fill the gaps,(excuse the pun), for some years to come. Geez, I nearly spelt it cum.

Maybe the BM's will find the changes that are coming, as much from social changes as those instigated by the authorities who have made no secret of wanting to remove the stigma of the bar scene, a bit off putting to their way of life.

There is always flux and change. Just part of life. I started off in 2015, so really am a newbie. If it wasn't for c-----d I would have spent more time in Thailand. That really did throw a spanner in the works for all types of business, including that one that we indulge in.

I am back in May and should be able to check it out although it was only 3 months ago when I was last there. I certainly did not have trouble having a good time.

Who knows how long it will last for me. I am getting on. I proved it today. You may want to read about my adventures in booking my tickets.

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Thanks PG, Woodie for your interest.   I don't think "summarizing the book" is of much interest to BMs as it's all about Thai folk art craftmanship and preservation.  For example: I liked a chapter about a Thai lady who bought old traditional wood homes and transplanted them to city buyers and how increasingly difficult it was for her to find carpenters skilled enough or willing to work with those homes.  What I was trying to stress was the book's broader message of "vanishing Thailand" as a result of modernization and social change.  Like everywhere else on earth where technological progress rendered many traditions too costly and time-consuming, especially those based on high-skilled but cheap artisanal labor.

Let me give an example of "vanishing Thailand":  the flagship Tuk-Tuks.  When I started my business there in the 1990s they were everywhere in Bangkok and since the skyways had not been built the Tuk Tuks were a much faster reliable mode of transportation than the sedan taxis.  They could just shortcut through side roads and alleys where the cars could not pass and get me to my destination faster.  I am not exagerating their importance:  traffic back then was much much worse than it is now.  To ride from the old Don Mueang airport to the Shangri-la I had to budget at least 2 hours, which is longer than it takes today to get to Pattaya from that same airport.

e40chy-1.webp.5717de1bf1b8cfacc44ae24ccbb70f75.webp So I would take a Tuk-Tuk whenever I could as they were also dirt cheap at widely-known fixed rates and the drivers were not trying to con you or take you to massage and jewelry shops like they later became infamous for.  Riding a noisy bumpy tuk tuk in the open air could be fun, but it was also very hot and you were exposed to toxic traffic emissions including those from the 100s of other gas guzzling tuk-tuks in the traffic around you many of which had no muffler systems.  As Japanese and Korean cars became more affordable, the Thais themselves started preferring them and the number of tuk-tuks on the road declined sharply from the turn of the century.  It is likely that more strict mechanical and inspection standards became a factor also as the Thai authorities may have wanted to free the roads of the pesky little vehicles.

But the tuk-tuks still retained their iconic appeal for tourists who were willing to negotiate and pay for the rides more than a metered taxi would cost them. The tuk-tuk drivers had huge kickback incentives to take the tourists to preferred businesses (massages, tailors, clubs, jewelry shops) where they were vulnerable to price gauging.  So many a tourist would take a Tuk-tuk at premium prices once or twice and then never again.  Many Thais however continue to this day to regularly take tuk-tuks especially for routes off the main roads and in the outskirts of BKK.   And eventually Tuk-Tuks started to turn electric.  But the writing has been on the wall for a long time.  When covid hit and tourists disappeared for almost 2 years, many tuk tuks never came back.

I was in Bangkok last month and still saw some tuk-tuks in traffic, both with starry-eyed farangs and with local Thais going about their business.  But I also would go long stretches without seeing one, which 20 years ago would have been impossible.

My bet is that the Tuk-Tuks will not completely vanish the way horse-drawn carriages did.  But their place in the life and ethos of Thais will not be the same and no more farangs will feel charmed and eager to ride them like I did when I first started coming to Thailand and discovered they were the most reliable form of urban transportation and a way to partake of the local culture.

 

PS:  my last time on a tuk-tuk  October 2022 going from Sukhumvit-Nana to the Hollywood Bangkok club with 2 trans friends...  the driver gave us a good deal on the rate because it was a club he was familiar with and once he got us there he stuck around until he made sure I had agreed to buy a bottle of Scotch so he could collect his farang-hunter fee.

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I got a summary of the book last night. I was experimenting "chat-gpt" and the app explained me everything. (But refused to give me adresses of good deals with ladyboys in South Vietnam). I was wondering what you (Rom) would be talking about. 

I rode tuk-tuks for my first trip in 2011. I found them cheap and useful. I was with a ladyboy in LT and I let her bargain with them. I particularly enjoyed one bringing us to a cheap hotel in Chiang Mai. 
I also used tuk-tuks in Bohol (Philippines). I noticed though that was stupid to spend money to go downtown while we could walk there but my Pinoy lazy companion had a different point of view. 
Bck in Thiland in 2013, I used a tuk-tuk to go from Chiang Mai airport to my cheap hotel, then once again. I noticed that tuk-tuks had vanished from the streets and motorbikes became rare. Thai people drove cars but also big cars or pick-ups. Either I would walk or I would use a pick-up like those used for the baht bus in Pattaya. 

I often wished I would find old fashion  means of transportations in Asian countries (like side car tuk-tuks in Bohol), but Asian people offered me another Asian specialty modern transports without safety. 

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14 hours ago, Woodie said:

I recognize the theme of this discussion, but as to the fact that there are less young Thai lb's,(I was going to say young men, but thought better of it), moving to BKK or Pattaya. Yes, maybe, but the other two sources, Laos and Cambodia are nowhere near in the state of progression as Thailand is. They need an income like there is no tomorrow. I am sure that they will fill the gaps,(excuse the pun), for some years to come. Geez, I nearly spelt it cum.

 

My point exactly.  Previously, I started a topic asking where is the New TH.  Because, mongering is and has been part of the economy in TH for long time.  I think it has produced riches for the country and the few, and over the years elevated the GDP in TH.  But, as indicated with wealth comes progress and with progress out goes the old West and in with the new (progressive) state.  But, this economical model for growth and prosperity that was key to success as demonstrated in TH.  So why wouldn't a PH, Laos, Cambodia, etc. incorporate and build the economical model.  What else they got?  Also, I would be surprised to see it dry up, still to much money to be had and paid off.  But, not as wild or as crazy, I could see that happening.  But, will they ever have the abundance of good paying jobs to totally transform the economy.  Especially with Marijuana now becoming abundant.  That doesn't promote a hard working labor force.  

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an

10 hours ago, Woodie said:

No, you dont have to go far off the main roads to see real poverty in Thailand. I think they have a long way to go. Still a them and us society. A small rich portion and a massive underclass.

and worse in neighboring countries

 

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I'm not convinced that poorer countries can provide ladyboys so easily to replace missing Thai ladyboys. Ladyboys from poor areas of Thailand might do it but the rise of living standards might be used by the administration to restrict p4p or make it more expensive and restrict immigration for purpose of working in p4p. A frontier will always slow down the migration so ladyboys from neighbouring countries can't just come and replace Thai ladyboys. 

It's not so easy to rely on economic indicators to draw conclusions. The GDP per inhabitant is 8,690 $ in Thailand, 2,650 $ in Vietnam and 1,660 in Cambodia. The poverty rate is 9.8 % in Thailand, 7.5 % in Vietnam and 10 % in Cambodia. What's the effect on p4p ladyboys and prices ? 

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17 hours ago, Pulci Gorgon said:



It's not so easy to rely on economic indicators to draw conclusions. The GDP per inhabitant is 8,690 $ in Thailand, 2,650 $ in Vietnam and 1,660 in Cambodia. The poverty rate is 9.8 % in Thailand, 7.5 % in Vietnam and 10 % in Cambodia. What's the effect on p4p ladyboys and prices ? 

I find it hard to believe the percentage values you listed.  I could be mistaken but they seem lower than in the USA.  Maybe poverty rates are determined differently country to country.  I think economical indicators do tell a story, and history documents them.

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I got these percentages from the new app chat.openai.com . I tested it first and found answers reluctant. 

Yesterday I asked for the same stats in the USA. The last GDP was 64,000 $ per inhabitant and the poverty rate 10.5 %. 

I have just checked again to copy the added warning in English "Please note that these estimates may vary depending on the source and the methodology used to calculate them. Additionally, this data may be affected by factors such as the COVID-19 pandemic and international economic fluctuations." I have just asked in English for the poverty rate in Thailand. The answer in English is 7.2 % in 2020, and the answer in another language is 9.8 % in 2019 (the App saying that it has no data for 2020).
 agree with you that it's not consistent. 

(I also asked for the poverty rate in China : 1% . Everyone knows about stats in China). 

 

I'm not really surprised that numbers are lower than in the USA (especially in Vietnam). I saw a lot of poverty in the USA. As above explained, methods used may vary depending on the source and methodology. In the USA or in Europe, people who can't pay for a decent housing are poor. In Vietnam, housing is far from being decent for everybody but I can tell you that they build housing and they make (almost) everybody have a job. If you have the opportunity, it's worth pushing to HCMC and see. 
 

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10 hours ago, Pulci Gorgon said:

. I saw a lot of poverty in the USA

I agree

My friend has a property on the water in Richmond CA. Less than 2 miles away as the crow flies, there is poverty. Smashed windows. Broken down old cars parked out front etc etc.

We drove up to Hood River and on the way saw a similar scenario. That is something you would rarely see in Australia or NZ. Also the number of homeless people living in tents under motoways etc. around San Fran. We have them but in small numbers

Something I would say is the scenery in the countryside on the way up to Hood River is spectacular. Forests of pines etc. down to the edge of the lakes.

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thanks gentlemen for posting to this thread.  Yes poverty threshold definitions vary across countries.  As of this post, an American is considered poor if he/she earns less than USD 13,590 per year (it varies with family size) while in Thailand the threshold is 2,762 baht per month which comes to 33,000 baht per year or a little less than USD 1,000 per year at the current exchange rate.  Such disparity should come as no surprise to anyone familiar with the less affluent sexpats in Thailand, many of whom get by comfortably and can afford an abundant sex life on survival-level pensions from their home countries.  In addition povertywise you also have to consider the availability of social services such as medical care and education available to the poorest and in this regard the Thais are also much worse off (no money: no advanced medical care like surgeries or dental).

full_nightlife_beerbar_4.jpg.5c3c4c0060cb5c30b0423ada98b0e04e.jpgI would like now to bring the thread back on topic with another vanishing act of Thailand as we know it:  Bangkok Beer Bars (with barfinable GGs).  Yes you are reading it right:  like the Bangkok tuk-tuks, of which there are still enough around to ride, the BKK beer bars ain't what it used to be.   Even in Pattaya where the number of beer bars must be in the high-100s, such number is dwindling as they get consolidated into the Buakhao area.  But let's stick with Bankgok.

In the 1990s-2000s the beer bars with cheap beer prices (40-50 baht), barfines (200-300) and LTs (700-1,000) were all over and around the 3 BKK mongering hotspots: PatPong, Nana, Cowboy.  In the Nana area alone they could be found in the middle of the court of Nana Plaza (no ladies now, only drinks), all along soi 4 (still can) and then at multiple places all around that no longer have them.  For example, under the soi 1 bridge that accesses the skyway there were dozens of bars (gone! cleared for traffic);  in the corner of Sukhumvit next to soi Cowboy there used to be more beer bars than there were go-gos in Soi Cowboy (gone! big building); Clinton Plaza on sois 13-14 that was touted as the next NEP (gone; big hotel); everywhere you looked in the Sukhumvit side sois there were such little bars with GGs just idly waiting to be picked up by farangs.  In the post-covid Sukhumvit area, such bars seem to have been concentrated in a new mini-plaza on soi 7.  There is like 15-20 of them reasonably well staffed, but the pussy numbers are a fraction of what they used to be for the total of such bars in the past.  The quality is also deteriorated as you don't find the younger ones mixed in anymore.  I did not try it, but soi 7 prices are likely higher and the ladies LT-averse while 20 years ago they would latch on to you like superglue.  Similarly the smaller beer bars of Patpong 2 were all still closed as of last month.  I wonder if any will come back.

The dwindling bar situation is even more evident in other Thai cities that used to have small red light areas.  When I was in Chiang Rai in 2019 their ONE bar street only had 2 bars with women who understandably were not in a rush to go with the farang men that outnumbered them 4 or 5 to 1.  In Chiang Mai it was not so dire, but nothing compared to what it used to be.  Udon Thani same same.  Pattaya still has plenty of beer bars but punters hanging out at those bars routinely outnumber the girls.  Did not use to be like that.  Treetown is a bright new spot packed with bars, but at least 10 BIG beer plazas along Beach road and Second road are gone for good, including soi MIT that alone probably had more bars and women than Treetown has now.  And those defunct beer bar plazas were only what I could see from the baht bus as I drove by.  The loss of beer bars in the sois of North Pattaya (soi 2 and across Second road) has been nearly total.  Soi Arab bars and further south down second road towards Jomtien also much fewer than I remember.  Better not speak for Jomtien in this board, but what I saw there were shuttered bars and bars like Emmy's with no more than 2, 3 or 4 ladies on staff.

We may have taken them for granted and there may still be enough around to party, but beer bars are a vanishing breed too...

BKK3_2001_0819_024539AA.jpg.a515d233e5f73c538f6dea2579bd2013.jpg

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13 hours ago, Pulci Gorgon said:

(I also asked for the poverty rate in China : 1% . Everyone knows about stats in China). 

 

I'm not really surprised that numbers are lower than in the USA (especially in Vietnam). I saw a lot of poverty in the USA. As above explained, methods used may vary depending on the source and methodology. In the USA or in Europe, people who can't pay for a decent housing are poor. In Vietnam, housing is far from being decent for everybody but I can tell you that they build housing and they make (almost) everybody have a job. If you have the opportunity, it's worth pushing to HCMC and see. 
 

As you stated, I would never believe anything from china....that's an evil government.

In USA, if you don't have a X-box and 3 large Tv's you are considered below the poverty line.  USA has medical, food stamps, welfare, all these things that are bankrupting the USA.  I wont go further with that conversation.  Poverty in the USA is a picnic vs TH,PH VN, etc.

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4 hours ago, Rom said:

thanks gentlemen for posting to this thread.  Yes poverty threshold definitions vary across countries.  As of this post, an American is considered poor if he/she earns less than USD 13,590 per year (it varies with family size) while in Thailand the threshold is 2,762 baht per month which comes to 33,000 baht per year or less than USD 1,000 per year.  This should come as no surprise to anyone familiar with the less affluent sexpats in Thailand, many of whom get by comfortably and can afford an abundant sex life on survival-level pensions from their home countries.  In addition povertywise you also have to consider the availability of social services such as medical care and education available to the poorest and in this regard the Thais are also much worse off (no money: no advanced medical care like surgeries or dental).

full_nightlife_beerbar_4.jpg.5c3c4c0060cb5c30b0423ada98b0e04e.jpgI would like now to bring the thread back on topic with another vanishing act of Thailand as we know it:  Bangkok Beer Bars (with barfinable GGs).  Yes you are reading it right:  like the Bangkok tuk-tuks, of which there are still enough around to ride, the BKK beer bars ain't what it used to be.   Even in Pattaya where the number of beer bars must be in the high-100s, such number is dwindling as they get consolidated into the Buakhao area.  But let's stick with Bankgok.

In the 1990s-2000s the beer bars with cheap beer prices (40-50 baht), barfines (200-300) and LTs (700-1,000) were all over and around the 3 BKK mongering hotspots: PatPong, Nana, Cowboy.  In the Nana area alone they could be found in the middle of the court of Nana Plaza (no ladies now, only drinks), all along soi 4 (still can) and then at multiple places all around that no longer have them.  For example, under the soi 1 bridge that accesses the skyway there were dozens of bars (gone! cleared for traffic);  in the corner of Sukhumvit next to soi Cowboy there used to be more beer bars than there were go-gos in Soi Cowboy (gone! big building); Clinton Plaza on sois 13-14 that was touted as the next NEP (gone; big hotel); everywhere you looked in the Sukhumvit side sois there were such little bars with GGs just idly waiting to be picked up by farangs.  The post-covid Sukhumvit area such bars seem to have been concentrated in a new mini-plaza on soi 7.  There is like 15-20 of them reasonably well staffed, but the pussy numbers are a fraction of what they used to be for the total of such bars in the past.  The quality is also deteriorated as you don't find the younger ones mixed in anymore.  I did not try it, but soi 7 prices are likely higher and the ladies LT-averse while 20 years ago they would latch on to you like superglue.  Similarly the smaller beer bars of Patpong 2 were all still closed as of last month.  I wonder if any will come back.

The dwindling bar situation is even more evident in other Thai cities that used to have small red light areas.  When I was in Chiang Rai in 2019 their ONE bar street only had 2 bars with women who understandably were not in a rush to go with the farang men that outnumbered them 4 or 5 to 1.  In Chiang Mai it was not so dire, but nothing compared to what it used to be.  Udon Thani same same.  Pattaya still has plenty of beer bars but punters hanging out at those bars routinely outnumber the girls.  Did not use to be like that.  Treetown is a bright new spot packed with bars, but at least 10 BIG beer plazas along Beach road and Second road are gone for good, including soi MIT that alone probably had more bars and women than Tree town has now.  And those defunct beer bar plazas were only what I could see from the baht bus as I drove by.  The loss of beer bars in the sois of North Pattaya (soi 2 and across Second road) has been nearly total.  I better not speak for Jomtien in this board, but what I saw there were shuttered bars and bars like Emmy's with 2, 3 or 4 ladies on staff.

We may have taken them for granted, but beer bars are a vanishing breed too...

BKK3_2001_0819_024539AA.jpg.a515d233e5f73c538f6dea2579bd2013.jpg

I have followed your continued premise, but continue to read from other BM's that do not suggest same-same.  Maybe/maybe not, you have better fortune cookies.  This economic model is worth billions to the TH GDP.  Things do change, cost do go up and the covid did wipe out all but the strong.  Maybe more mom and pop stores/bars/clubs are closed and more corporate types are swallowing up the small guys (i wouldn't be surprised). But, as long as the influx of chinese, indians, koreans, aussies, americans, europeans, etc., keep coming in overwhelming numbers the demand will remain high and the supply will grow with it.  Economic conditions have yet to improve to the point that the oldest profession in the world will have seen it's day.

I do get your point that's its not the old wild west anymore.

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BTW, I was just trying to explain that we can't correlate economic indicators and p4p so easily. What Rom describes in a post after mine is hard to believe for me. I visited a few declining p4p scenes. It's not easy to identify for one reason : I had been described something good and what I see is not what I had read (in the net). So I knew that Thai scene was a declining scene but I couldn't imagine even in my dreams that soi 1 or soi 13 were fulll of beer bars full of cheap hookers. 

Udon Thani ? I checked the city in 2017. I had read the Thailandredcat webpage. (Although I was already banned from another forum, I managed to open an AM account and get information from a TR by KendoUK in the forum's advanced section. The Thailand Red Cat described 4 spots to find ladyboys. The 2 spots with street action were empty. The other 2 spots were bar complexes. I usually don't like bars. I found a ladyboy in TF. She was 10 kg older than on her pics. Her price was reasonable, then she asked me to follow her to her bar. It had been a big waste of time and money. On the next day, I picked up a fresh from I don't knopw what idiot ladyboy. I had fun but she was uncontrolable. I had noticed how the mixed bar (female) boss looked worried about her bar's future. They had no customer in this place. 

Khon Kaen @Rom didn't mention the city in his above post. I had located a couple of streets near the Pullman hotels where the RLD was supposed to be. I located a few bars that looked like beer bars but no ladyboy. Girls seemed to be wise. I also found a new type of bars in which young Thai people gathered wisely to have some drinks and chat. These looked like bars in provincial cities in Europe. On the outskirts of this neighborhood, I saw closed shops and bars. This part of the street looked destroyed by war. I shot a photo of a business that had been the Aussie bar. I saw in this pic the future of Thailand, at least Thai p4p areas. 

 

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On 2/12/2023 at 1:25 PM, Rom said:

thanks gentlemen for posting to this thread.  Yes poverty threshold definitions vary across countries.  As of this post, an American is considered poor if he/she earns less than USD 13,590 per year (it varies with family size) while in Thailand the threshold is 2,762 baht per month which comes to 33,000 baht per year or a little less than USD 1,000 per year at the current exchange rate.  Such disparity should come as no surprise to anyone familiar with the less affluent sexpats in Thailand, many of whom get by comfortably and can afford an abundant sex life on survival-level pensions from their home countries.  In addition povertywise you also have to consider the availability of social services such as medical care and education available to the poorest and in this regard the Thais are also much worse off (no money: no advanced medical care like surgeries or dental).

full_nightlife_beerbar_4.jpg.5c3c4c0060cb5c30b0423ada98b0e04e.jpgI would like now to bring the thread back on topic with another vanishing act of Thailand as we know it:  Bangkok Beer Bars (with barfinable GGs).  Yes you are reading it right:  like the Bangkok tuk-tuks, of which there are still enough around to ride, the BKK beer bars ain't what it used to be.   Even in Pattaya where the number of beer bars must be in the high-100s, such number is dwindling as they get consolidated into the Buakhao area.  But let's stick with Bankgok.

In the 1990s-2000s the beer bars with cheap beer prices (40-50 baht), barfines (200-300) and LTs (700-1,000) were all over and around the 3 BKK mongering hotspots: PatPong, Nana, Cowboy.  In the Nana area alone they could be found in the middle of the court of Nana Plaza (no ladies now, only drinks), all along soi 4 (still can) and then at multiple places all around that no longer have them.  For example, under the soi 1 bridge that accesses the skyway there were dozens of bars (gone! cleared for traffic);  in the corner of Sukhumvit next to soi Cowboy there used to be more beer bars than there were go-gos in Soi Cowboy (gone! big building); Clinton Plaza on sois 13-14 that was touted as the next NEP (gone; big hotel); everywhere you looked in the Sukhumvit side sois there were such little bars with GGs just idly waiting to be picked up by farangs.  In the post-covid Sukhumvit area, such bars seem to have been concentrated in a new mini-plaza on soi 7.  There is like 15-20 of them reasonably well staffed, but the pussy numbers are a fraction of what they used to be for the total of such bars in the past.  The quality is also deteriorated as you don't find the younger ones mixed in anymore.  I did not try it, but soi 7 prices are likely higher and the ladies LT-averse while 20 years ago they would latch on to you like superglue.  Similarly the smaller beer bars of Patpong 2 were all still closed as of last month.  I wonder if any will come back.

The dwindling bar situation is even more evident in other Thai cities that used to have small red light areas.  When I was in Chiang Rai in 2019 their ONE bar street only had 2 bars with women who understandably were not in a rush to go with the farang men that outnumbered them 4 or 5 to 1.  In Chiang Mai it was not so dire, but nothing compared to what it used to be.  Udon Thani same same.  Pattaya still has plenty of beer bars but punters hanging out at those bars routinely outnumber the girls.  Did not use to be like that.  Treetown is a bright new spot packed with bars, but at least 10 BIG beer plazas along Beach road and Second road are gone for good, including soi MIT that alone probably had more bars and women than Treetown has now.  And those defunct beer bar plazas were only what I could see from the baht bus as I drove by.  The loss of beer bars in the sois of North Pattaya (soi 2 and across Second road) has been nearly total.  Soi Arab bars and further south down second road towards Jomtien also much fewer than I remember.  Better not speak for Jomtien in this board, but what I saw there were shuttered bars and bars like Emmy's with no more than 2, 3 or 4 ladies on staff.

We may have taken them for granted and there may still be enough around to party, but beer bars are a vanishing breed too...

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 I like the above description. It seems hard to believe, but from 2011(my first trip) to 2017 (last trip), I had the feeling of a decline. GGs looked less sexy, and fewer, bars seemed to vanished (I don't really care of bars actually) and ladyboys seemed fewer too and less eager at proposing sex. ST that were reputed to last 2 hours a few years before I go hardly lasted one hour and sometimess less. 

I visited a few of the sois you described such as soi 1. I can't imagine they were full of beer bars. 

Based on prices you gave, maybe I would have enjoyed visiting bars. 

Would you be able to give an evolution of prices both in BKK and Pattaya from 1990 to now (including the 2000s and the 2010s) ? 

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3 hours ago, Soju said:

(...) I was in Udon Thani two weeks ago and (...) was a bit of a let down [that] the only lb I saw [...] we lacked chemistry.

[...]  I ended up spending a couple of nights with a sweet fem I met on TF. She was asking 1000 ST but her STs were rather long so I tipped her accordingly.

Ninew from her TF:

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LOL.  It's a small world.  My last time in Udon Thani was in 2019 and like you I was generally disappointed by the many closed bars, fewer and elder GGs who asked prices starting at 2,000 LT.  I saw only 3 or 4 ladyboys in the bars of the complex and NONE OF THEM acted minimally interested in me.  Was it my age?  Were they there just to sell drinks?  It certainly was not competition from other sissy punters since I was the only one there.  I think I got a massage from a fat chic and fucked her tits and went to bed.  

The next day a femboy contacted me on Badoo and he was none other than your "Ninew".  I don't think I ever bothered to remember the name but I remember he was a hairdresser in a salon that he had to get back to.  I remember asking him if he would want money for meeting me and he said "yes! but not expensive: only 500 baht".  I am sure I gave him a little more because the afternoon sex was pretty good and he wanted to come back at night.  My assessment at the time was that he was in his early-mid 30s despite being so trim...  I did not take any pics of his scrawny ass because the moment I met him we went straight to sex and I had no chance to build the rapport that makes it possible for me to take pics during sex without tension ... but here are the pics I saved later from his Baddoo for my archives.

R

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12 hours ago, Soju said:

I hope this isn't too much of a thread F.  I was in Udon Thani two weeks ago and there are a few ladyboys around. My hotel was @Home Udon  which was on the same street as Day and Night. In fact Day and Night was a bit of a let down and consists of about 20 bars, all of which lacked character IMO. I did happen to have a drink with the only lb I saw in the complex but her English was non-existent and we lacked chemistry.

I did prefer Nutty Park a little more because the bar girls seemed more fun but I didn't meet or see any lbs there--was surprised that the ST prices were close to Bangkok. Most girls (the regular xx chromosome type haha) were asking 2000 baht ST although they would have a go for 1500.

Several bars just outside my hotel had ladyboys sprinkled in with the regular chicks and were good looking.  I ended up getting tanked with two but didn't pull the trigger (in retrospect I don't know why).  I ended up spending a couple of nights with a sweet fem I met on TF. She was asking 1000 ST but her STs were rather long so I tipped her accordingly.

Ninew from her TF:

 

Great description of Udon Thani. I wouldn't have written better than that. 

I had met a ladyboy from TF, Beer. We had sex for a ST. She was not in a hurry and her price was reasonable. Then she pushed me to go to her bar where she introduced me to her boss, a pretty GG who pushed me to purchase LDs then would watch the people passing by in the day & night complex since she was only worried to catch customers. When I deemed the experience wouldn't be cost effective. I left. 

 

BeerTF2.png.0f0fc4bc135f1153b9af60a4012e5960.png  Beer from her TF profile

 

Beer1.png.3b2f28c00f4edca2bdb9c07e2e1e5f3e.pngBeer as I shot her in my room

 

Beer3.png.f62d208f390eb8b9da4e87baf8bad0a3.png  Beer with her boss. 

 

On the next day, I caught Run. As i asked her for her name, I understood "Lan". Run could have been an interesting case maybe for @Rom or @The-Sith. She was a strange kind of a wanker. As we were undressing to have sex, she isolated near the bed and wanked till she cummed. Then, she sucked me and let me fuck her without being in a hurry but without spending too much time. 
Then she asked me to be paid (expensive) and promised me to come back in the evening. She came back in the middle of the night, since she wanted more money. She had purchased . I let her sleep with me a couple of hours then left. 
On the next day, she came to my service appartment with her mortorbike and rode me to the train station. I gave her no tip. 

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Back home, I purchased handcuffs in a sexshop. I swore I wouldn't let my next Run piss me off. The handcuffs followed me in bagage during all my trips in VN, but Vietnamese ladyboys are different. Handcuffs would scare them. I eventually dropped them at my last Vietjetair safetycheck. I got fed up to have to open my bagege to explain these were no weapon. 

 

I also found a good massage girl downtown. Since I often find Thai massage too hard, I chose the shop with an 18 years old girls. After starting, she asked me for 800 THB to get naked. 800 to perform a massage naked and what else ? Nothing, no sex, she had a bf and bla bla bla. I proposed her a cunilingus with a big orgasm for her. BF, bla bla bla. Forget yyour 800 baht girl. 

Near the same place, I found a restaurant with dark skinned female cooker. She probably had an American father. I congratulated her for her meal (I don't remember what). It's been the best smile I saw in Udon Thani. 

 

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  • 3 months later...

Last weekend the Thai military status quo was routed in national elections and an encompassing national coalition is set to take power in what looks like a societal-changing turning point in Thai politics with the military having to finally accept a lesser status, and likely so will have other paramount Thai institutions.   But let's not elaborate here on prospective societal changes for Thais other than what they may entail for sex-oriented farangs like us.

Personally, I think this election is another nail on the coffin of Thailand as we know it.  Despite seeking more civil freedoms, the new political forces are embued with a sense of national rebirth and social justice and are likely to also want to end the status quo of Thais as sex entertainment for foreigners many of whom of dubious character.

So the irony is that as westerners we tend to choose free speech and civil equality and to condemn how Thailand falls short in that regard, but the fact is that  we have long personally benefited from Thailand's authoritarian system and class rigidities that has allowed the exploitation of its most vulnerable citizens (youths from poor families of rural areas) and has even quietly profited from it (i can't elaborate on this one).  Such class rigidities in Thai societies have also benefited us in terms of low cost labor in trades other than prostitution  (maids, taxi drives, restaurants, etc.) that are complementary to the mongering.

My take is that it will become hard for a populist, electorally-minded government to ignore calls for dissipating the sex industry, or whatever is left of it since it is shrinking already regardless of politics.

What do other BMs think?   Is this election going to affect our mongering one way or the other?

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4 hours ago, Rom said:

the new political forces are embued with a sense of national rebirth and social justice and are likely to also want to end the status quo of Thais as sex entertainment for foreigners many of whom of dubious character.

What do other BMs think?   Is this election going to affect our mongering one way or the other?

Another way to look at it is military vs business with the military old guard wanting to preserve traditional Thai values while the pro small business-people parties understand that the Average Somchai needs to earn a living.

The military regime was cracking down on Bangkok massage joints making sure the girls wore uniforms instead of slutware.  Sort of a do as your told school uniform thingy.

But I don't think regime change will affect mongering very much either pro or con.  What some of us forget is that the majority of Thai tourism is not prostitution related.  Pheu Thai never interfered with the sex trade and I doubt Move Forward will either.   Strangely enough, the most pro-cannabis party is part of the current military coalition. 

Btw, it's not a done deal that Pita becomes PM.  The Senate could vote as a block to deny him the premiership.  

Some pundits say that the distinction between Pheu Thai and Move Forward is that Pheu Thai is populist with their introduction of the 30 baht medical plan while Move Forward is progressive concerned about structural and institutional change.  They seem to have a solid coalition and it seems like progress for Thai people.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Rom said:

So the irony is that as westerners we tend to choose free speech and civil equality and to condemn how Thailand falls short in that regard, but the fact is that  we have long personally benefited from Thailand's authoritarian system and class rigidities that has allowed the exploitation of its most vulnerable citizens (youths from poor families of rural areas) and has even quietly profited from it (i can't elaborate on this one).  Such class rigidities in Thai societies have also benefited us in terms of low cost labor in trades other than prostitution  (maids, taxi drives, restaurants, etc.) that are complementary to the mongering.

We could also contend that there are instances when we turn a blind eye to the suppression of free speech and civil equality by a dictatorship, especially when it aligns with our narrow personal interests, however the above paragraph  provides an insightful analysis of the societal changes that have occurred in Thailand over the past few decades and of our interactions. I believe that the upcoming election will have little effect on our mongering activities. Thailand has undergone significant development and is no longer considered a third world country. Regardless of the presence or absence of democracy, the country is increasingly resembling developed nations. Certain practices may no longer be tolerated in the future, or at least will be highly restricted, necessitating our search for alternative locations to find ladyboys.

It seems that you possess the necessary skills to continue your endeavors in the Philippines. 

 

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1 hour ago, Pulci Gorgon said:

(...) necessitating our search for alternative locations to find ladyboys.

It seems that you possess the necessary skills to continue your endeavors in the Philippines. 

Thanks PD & PG, I think there is broad agreement the election outcome will not impact TH mongering much as there are other more determinant economic and demographic factors at play pushing in the direction of the end of mongering as we knew and relished it.

I just want to add 3 things:

- The TH sex tourist industry may have peaked but it will still be around in expressive enough terms for at least another decade, which is not much less than the time I think I may have left of sexual activeness.  There may not be hot 20 year olds at discount rates like we got used to, but there will be plenty of 40+ MILFs who grew up in the sex industry and dont want to do anything else.  I am seeing a lot of such women trying to meet customers in Pattaya and Bangkok's regular bars and discos and I am not averse to hooking up with them.  Perhaps there will also be droves of 40 yo ladymen trying to meet but at this stage I cannot see myself going for it.

-  A lot of TH veterans are now talking of the PH as the next frontier, but here too things are changing fast.  Don't assume the white man is at the top of the natives wishlists like we were in TH.  The Koreans have pretty much made the PH their playground and I am starting to see Indians and Arabs...

-  Yes I have the skills to continue to meet young, hot sissies.  But will I continue to have the drive ?

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