My Book Review of the PAULTAIN BOOK and Some Personal Reflections It Triggered

[Rom]

3 hours ago, Sylvester said:

I don’t know, Rom; based up the above anecdotes, it’s sounding more and more like this book is more fiction than fact, which is a far cry from ‘poetic license.’ It seems as if he projects an image of himself as a sort of Indians Jones of SE Asia mongering, always able to extract himself from a variety of precarious situations.

In my mind, the true bad-asses of the oldest profession in the world here in SE Asia are the guys who fly under the radar. They don’t write trip reports on mongering/porn marketing forums; they look like the average guy walking down the street, but who own a diverse portfolio of houses of pleasure in multiple cities; they produce and sell large quantities of pornography, or they operate like ninjas, never disclosing their tactics and existence. These guys make considerable amounts of money, and/or get to bed the hottest escorts in the game, and they do so virtually anonymously. That’s truly impressive and badass. I know a few of these guys in real life. They do exist.

The more I think about it, the fact that Paultain wrote a semi-factual book about SE Asia mongering does not merit him any kind of recognition at all, except perhaps that he had a big ego or some other psychological need to mythologize himself with a book about his apparently semi-fictional exploits and experiences buying and selling sexual services over a few decades. It seems to me that he is merely one of the many charismatic and self-aggrandizing characters who come and go in the SE Asia mongering scene, who wrote a badly written and exaggerated accounting of his life as a whore-monger and pimp. 

Don’t be so harsh Sylvester.  I did give Paultain’s book a good roasting but that was only because I was inclined all along to induct him into the Hall of Legends based on the fact that he is widely remembered in our ladyboy mongering milieu precisely for having written that book and being a character.  I am only troubled by the possibility that he could have made up the early parts of the book about owning bars in TH, but there is solid evidence he was a proficient and frequent sex tourist who was into the ladyboys.  I doubt he would lie about having married and divorced the Thai lady, so he probably met her in TH earlier in his life as he says he did.

There is another factor we have to take into consideration when assessing the book: Paultain does not strike me as minimally educated or experienced to write an inteligible book from beginning to end and he had an editor help him: Eric ‘Grumpy’ Simpson “who freely edited and advised on the book.”  Grumpy  did a good editing job in terms of continuity and consistency of the book’s thrust and of casting Paultain as the sexually insatiable monger with an Irish fondness for drinking and grandstanding but deep down a heart of gold  (Did I mention every trip to Pattaya Paultain would visit the orphanages to make donations?)  “Grumpy” probably wrote most of the book himself over poor first drafts by Paultain or transcribing his oral ramblings and, in doing so, Grumpy probably just decided to take Paultain at his word with a grain of salt and let the book’s narrative swing from fact to fiction to magical realism (the ghosts and the demons and the X-monks) in a hyperbolic hagiographic style that lent itself to the book’s first-person narration by the great Paultain himself.

All in all it is an entertaining book of memories if you take them with that grain of salt and, as I mentioned, it mirrors the Paultain in all of us as regards the quest for “the experience” that brings us to TH year after year and our desire to share that experience afterwards which is not easy because of the condemnation of the general population who have no clue about the secret magic world of the ladyboys.

As regards the stealth mongers who fuck more and higher quality natives without telling anyone, I agree they exist and I know a couple, but they cannot be legends if no one ever hears about their deeds or knows their names.  One such monger was the Captain-Outrageous who was a mentor of sorts to me and who I personally inducted into the Hall of Legends and no one else here had ever met him and has since gone back to obscurity while holding a respected position in the BKK expat circles...

[Pulci Gorgon]

14 hours ago, Quietguy said:

 

The proceeds from the book were to go to two Pattaya orphanages.

https://www.forums.pattayatalk.com/topic/51927-the-book-is-finally-published-in-thailand/

 

 

 

OK. He didn't write the book to make money at least to make money for himself. 

 

 

16 hours ago, Rom said:

PG, if you haven't yet sucked ladyboy cock I don't understand what you are doing with ladyboys.  It's like you are driving Ferraris, but not wanting to exceed 60 mph...  Try it.  It's like first drinking beer when we were teens.  The first 4 or 5 times it felt weird and then we get used to it and love a fresh one down the throat....

If I had to drive a Ferrari here, I wouldn't exceed 56 mph since this is the speed limit here. I drove far more powerful vehicles than Ferrari and spped ain't my driving objective. I daren't tell you at what speed I drive my personal car to save gasoline too. You would be surprised. I also drink one beer once a month. I don't want to die too early as Rinzler or Paultain. 

I am going what I am doing with ladyboys : I fuck them, I top them. I like the song of a ladyboy being screwed in a doggy style sounding more and more feminine after each stroke in her loins. You're not going to piss me off with that (I had troubles with bigots 100% bottom. I don't want to try again). I'm convinced many guys don't bottom with ladyboys and I often met ladyboys who felt offended that I watch their cocks.

Back to Paultain, I took some distance with the story as you tell it. I believe that all that he wrote is true. He probably omitted many details but wouldn't have told sad stories if he had decided to lie. As above explained, I noticed how people react when someone explains episodes of his own life : they react negatively. Recently, a guy told me I should be careful when going to Vietnam since the country is supposed to be full of ladyboys. That guy had probably never been further than Spain, so I explained him he confused Vietnam and Thailand and I didn't fear to find ladyboys in Vietnam. 

Regarding a Romscar, I found a word when watching an archelogist's interview tonight. Have you thought of the legacy left by inductees before you grant them a Romscar ? I wondered what kind of a legacy Paultain left us compared to let's say Snoopdawg. Then I watched your Romscars again : you inducted Sweethearts bar, you nominated Jimbo33, you had created a "Newbie of the year" Romscar etc ... So I can't say that Paultain wouldn't deserve a Romscar since a few Romscars were already granted to people who wouldn't deserve them. As posted in the previous page, I think the case belongs to the past and I don't want to try to guess what's true and what's BS in his book. 

 

[deleted]

1 hour ago, Rom said:

4 hours ago, Sylvester said:

Don’t be so harsh Sylvester.  I

Perhaps I was a bit harsh. I was honestly trying to play devil’s advocate and offer an alternative point of view.

[Pulci Gorgon]

Quote

I think they all have to credit me with going to great lengths to document them with photos and verifiable chronologies.  And if in the context of the TRs I write on ladyboys with a pen, it is primarily to INTERACT with BMs and give proof that those ladyboy encounters were taken AFTER BMs interacted with me.  Not from a trip a few years back, or downloaded from the internet from other mongers' pictorials.

The above comment raises a question. I'd never dare paint on ladyboys bodys as you do (The first time I saw one of your pics years ago, I found it disrespectful for ladyboys then I took these photos as winks or jokes sent to BMs.). However, everyone knows it's a pain in the ass to shoot a good pic. I don't mean a pic that would respect academic rules of beauty, but more simply a photo that can be used to have a documented post. I sometimes criticized that your pics don't show a ladyboy completely and think you're posting too many (fucking hairy) cocks but no real nude. I wonder how you obtain so much cooperation from ladyboy whom you shoot. Do you tip them ? What's the rate to get it. 

I haven't made stats but less than 20 % of the pics I post in TR were shot during the trip. I seldom used a pic from the previous year and complete my posts with photos found in social media that I find as better quality ones. I could count on the fingers of one hand the successful photos I have posted.The photos were watermarked (or not)  of course. I'm afraid my camera is useful only for landscapes. So I still wonder what's your tip to shoot so many photos. I hope you don't wait for them to be drunk before pulling your camera. 

[Rom]

23 hours ago, Pulci Gorgon said:

The above comment raises a question (...) how you obtain so much cooperation from ladyboy whom you shoot. Do you tip them ?  (...) I hope you don't wait for them to be drunk before pulling your camera. 

This thread is about Paultain (not me!) and to answer your questions I will have to commit precisely the same kind of self-glorification BS Paultain did in his book every time he cast himself as a more successful monger and sexpat than the rest of us because he connected so much more genuinely with the ladyboys (and the GGs) who in turn genuinely wanted to be with him and do things for him they would not do for the rest of us.  Don't we all think we are like that?  So much more special to our barfines?

Well ... that's how I feel: SPECIAL! when  I take so many nude pics of the ladyboys and they don't give me hell for it when I am heroed (and boy! was everyone out to hero me at PY).  But whether or not you think I am special, there are elements of skill to it as well.  I will share a few of those:

I start taking pics of the ladyboys as soon as I meet them.  At the bars, at the beaches, at the sois, at the salons: snap! snap! snap!  They love the attention and by the time we get to the room they are used to it. 

I also make my pic taking as quick and non-intrusive as I can.   I don't use a big fancy camera strapped around my neck with a telescopic lenses or ask them to pose optimally for flash shots.  I just snap away with a flat digital camera I carry in my front pocket (the size of a pack of slim cigarettes) or with my phone which is set to shoot without flash.  Most of my pics are out of focus or off center but I take so many that a few turn up good enough.  And my good enough is when they capture sharply not just the image but the spontaneity of the moment, which are the pics I like to use for my TRs in contrast with BMs who favor studio type posed pics. 

As far as painting them or writing on them sissies, it's all part of the playful mood of the moment. I don't dare trying it on some of them.  And with others it just comes naturally. 

My last tip is that, like everything in life, with practice we get better at it.  When I started out I took only a few timid pictures, but with every subsequent fuck I took more pictures and more pornographich ones at that...

and FOR THE RECORD:  I do NOT pay them extra for the pics or the artwork in a quid pro quo sense.  But of course, a session where I take sexy pics and do intimate body artwork is likely to be a more sex-pleasuring session which in turn is likely to make me want to be more generous to my models/lovers.

Hope this helps.

R

[Pulci Gorgon]

Thanks for your answer anyway. I wanted to know since I sometimes had to cop with reluctance. 

It's been nice to read this book review, not that I would either enjoy the book or spend time to discover Paultain's life. You gave us a good summary and pointed the contradictions that emerge from his account. I also enjoyed off-topic digressions, certainly because I don't grant too much importance to Paultain. but your topic gave opportunities to do so. 

[Rom]

I think I will use this thread to review another book I also read during the recent trip. To be more exact: that I read half way through because I got bored with it like I did with Paultain's the first time I had a go at it. This book presents completely different literary and mongering styles than Paultain's, but the underlying mindframes of the authors are the same: (1) their superior insightfulness; and (ii) their existential loneliness, which Paultain never mentions but is obvious in his "experience" quest.

This new book (2021) is called "Lonely Sex Tourist" by a monger-come-lately by the name of John Kane who admits he became painfully lonely following divorce in his 50s (?) and has since found solace in prostitutes worldwide.  Not just in SE Asia; he also went to Latin America, Caribbean, Madagascar and Europe.  He used his time in Thailand to do some graduate studies in socio-demographics and the book is an attempt to display an academic approach to the subject, which in my opinion John Kane was not up to the task despite the scholarly prose, literature citations and the stats which he would cheapen with personal ramblings and anecdotes.  His main thesis is that growing calls by western policymakers and the media to equate prostitution with cruel human trafficking do not reflect the reality where prostitutes plyed their trade by choice and without exploitation in the countries he visited.  It's a valid argument.  I think I agree that prostitution between elderly western men and young P4Ps from poorer countries is consensual enough even if rooted on regretable economic inequality.  If you also agree, I just summed up the book for you and you do not need to read it.

To be fair, the book is quite succinct and is organized in 30 chapters of 2 or 3 pages each that read like newspaper opinion columns (it does not include an indexed table of contents for me to show a pic of).  John Kane has a very candid logic inference style and unlike Paultain he does not brag about the pornographics.  Did he go to all those places he says he went?  I believe it when I see it and there are no photos.  He could just as well have read about those mongering hotspots on the net from his namesake Asian Sex Diary "John" who went to all those places, including Madagascar.  But lonely John Kane is too scholarly to give out mongering leads and stays focused on his paramount message that mongering is not intrinsically evil "as they say" and is in fact a much-needed mitigation for human loneliness, including for the whores who, according to him, are even lonelier as there tends to be male count deficits in their countries (in Thailand John Kane estimates 3 million more women than men; I am not sure if he adjusted for the ladyboys).  Although John tries to be factual and analytical at first, as the book progresses it becomes mostly about his opinions and predictions.  He also likes to share his music playlist and for most (not all) of the 30 chapters he selects a favorite song matching the chapter's topic for the reader to listen to on Youtube.  I did not bother to so no idea if the songs were a good match.  The book has a single image of a meme (below) that reflects the aforementioned book's thesis.

To conclude:  John Kane's acknowledgment of "lonely sex tourism" is a reality that most of us (like Paultain!) prefer to sidestep with the accounts of our sexual prowesses with partners in greater quantity and quality than are available to us in our countries.  But the reality is that it does get lonely, especially afterwards when we are back there in our countries too spoiled to seek company in partners of our age and culture.

[Zeppie]

1 hour ago, Rom said:

i think I will use this thread to review another book I also read during the recent trip.  To be more exact: that I read half way through  because I got bored with it like I did with Paultain's the first time I had a go at it.   This book underscores completely different literary and mongering styles than Paultain's, but the main messages are the same: (1) the superior insightfulness of both authors; and, not so explicit in Paultain's book, (ii) the existential loneliness of both authors.

This new book (2021) is called "Lonely Sex Tourist" by a monger-come-lately by the name of John Kane who admits he became painfully lonely following divorce in his 50s (?) and has since found solace in prostitutes worldwide.  Not just in SE Asia; he also went to Latin America, Caribbean, Madagascar and Europe.  He used his time in Thailand to do some graduate studies in socio-demographics and the book is an attempt to display an academic approach to the subject, which in my opinion John Kane was not up to the task despite the scholarly prose, literature citations and the stats which he would cheapen with personal ramblings and anecdotes.  His main thesis is that growing calls by western policymakers and the media to equate prostitution with cruel human trafficking do not reflect the reality where prostitutes plyed their trade by choice and without exploitation in the countries he visited.  It's a valid argument. I think I agree that prostitution between elderly western men and young P4Ps from poorer countries is consensual enough even if rooted on regretable economic inequality.  If you also agree, I just summed up the book for you and you do not need to read it.

To be fair, the book is quite succinct and is organized in 30 chapters of 2 or 3 pages each that read like newspaper opinion columns (it does not include an indexed table of contents for me to show a pic of). John Kane has a very candid unassuming style and unlike Paultain he does not brag about the pornographics.  Did he go to all those places he says he went?  I believe it when I see it and there are no photos.  He could just as well have read about those mongering hotspots on the net from his namesake Asian Sex Diary "John" who went to all those places, including Madagascar.  But lonely John Kane is too scholarly to give out mongering leads and stays focused on his paramount message that mongering is not intrinsically evil "as they say" and is in fact a much-needed mitigation for human loneliness, including for the whores who, according to him, are even lonelier as there tends to be male count deficits in their countries (in Thailand John Kane estimates 3 million more women than men; I am not sure if he adjusted for the ladyboys).  Although John tries to be factual and analytical at first, as the book progresses it becomes mostly about his opinions and predictions.  He also likes to share his music playlist and for most (not all) of the 30 chapters he selects a favorite song matching the chapter's topic for the reader to listen to on Youtube.  I did not bother to so no idea if the songs were a good match.  The book has a single image of a meme (below) that reflects the aforementioned book's thesis.

To conclude:  John Kane's acknowledgment of "lonely sex tourism" is a reality that most of us (like Paultain!) prefer to sidestep with the accounts of our sexual prowesses with partners in greater quantity and quality than are available to us in our countries.  But the reality is that it does get lonely, especially afterwards when we are back there in our countries too spoiled to seek company in partners of our age and culture.

"(in Thailand John Kane estimates 3 million more women than men; I am not sure if he adjusted for the ladyboys)"...........Now that's funny!!!

[Pulci Gorgon]

Thanks for this second book review. It's interesting since it can be a good start to discuss key ideas. Thganks for give a summary. I guess I would be bored rapidly. 

I agree with your conclusion : we come back lonely and loneliness is sometimes harsh when we receive messages from our sweethearts asking for money and showing less interest every day in our life and hard work. 
You also questionned whether it's possible to visit so many countries. I guess it's possible to do it in several years but he mustn't have explored each country very deeply. 

John's main idea consists in defending that Western politicians and media who see prostitution as an ugly human trafficking are wrong and that prostitutes in the country he visited had been free to choose the job. IMHO, this is questionable. I  think that prostitution is neither free nor ugly but it's sometimes a pleasant trade in which both parts find an advantage in the business eg the case tthat you mentionned "prostitution between elderly western men and young P4Ps from poorer countries is consensual enough even if rooted on regretable economic inequality." 
I have mongered in several countries in my life over a few decades (I started when I was 17 yo) and found that p4p is not so simple. I often saw girls pretending to be free but fairly often pimps are not far from the prostitutes. I remember a Romanian girl I had helped to get a new passport after her passport had been "taken and lost by a young man". She had maintained for weeks the indefensible version that she had no pimp and once she got her new passport, she told me a lot about the bad time they had given her. 
I also noticed many times that it's difficult for prostitutes to remain friendly with good feelings for their clients. Even when they have no pimp, they are unable to establish a long term relationship. You pay, you fuck and you go. Asian girls (gurls) are just more interesting since they prefer to make their client be a sponsor rather than a one shoot customer. Of course, evryone can find all kind of situations in every country. 

Not that I pretend that pimps are everywhere, there can be inexplicable reasons for a gurl to resort to prostitution. For example, their need for money doesn't always come from poverty, but I read about all kinds of different reasons why they need money. I thinks it's important for us to avoid those who don't have a strong motivation to do it, not that  I defend a moral attitude, but I think that gurls who have freely chosen prostitution are often the best ones. 

[Quietguy]

On 10/30/2022 at 12:35 AM, Rom said:

deep down a heart of gold  (Did I mention every trip to Pattaya Paultain would visit the orphanages to make donations?)  

He also encouraged BMs to visit the orphanages and donate, which many did.

[Pulci Gorgon]

Does anyone think that Paultain initiated a trend or a "fashion" consisting for ladyboys to go for long times with customers or was it already usual in the early 2010s (when I started mongering ladyboys)  ?

 

Regarding John Kane, how do you think he estimated the number of ladyboys in Thailand ? I saw sometimes saw figures published by journalists but they seem to estimate just putting a finger in their ass. I has tried to do the same in Vietnam, but the the information gave a percentage of the population longing to change sex or gender. Estimates are often wrong. 

[Pdoggg]

4 hours ago, Pulci Gorgon said:

Does anyone think that Paultain initiated a trend or a "fashion" consisting for ladyboys to go for long times

Not me, long times were at least as common as short times in the first decade of this century.  

4 hours ago, Pulci Gorgon said:

Regarding John Kane, how do you think he estimated the number of ladyboys in Thailand ?

Have no idea.  In order to estimate the number of ladyboys, one would first need to define the word ladyboy. For example, does an effeminate twink count as a ladyboy?

[soiboy]

13 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

For example, does an effeminate twink count as a ladyboy?

OK.  Before I answer this question I need to know the context.  Specifically - just how effeminate is this twink, and how many beers have I had?

[Rom]

On 11/4/2022 at 12:33 PM, Quietguy said:

[Paultain who wrote in his book that on his trips to Pattaya he would visit an orphanage to personally make contributions] also encouraged BMs to visit the orphanages and donate, which many did.

I think the words "orphan" and "monger"  should never be on the same sentence and mongers visiting orphanages for whatever reason is something that understandably raises contradictions and red flags.  Moreover, Paultain's orphanage was the one right next door to the Areca Lodge.  I am not insinuating anything personal.  Just that orphanages are not like doing charity at a church or a temple or at the mall...

23 hours ago, Pulci Gorgon said:

Does anyone think that Paultain initiated a trend or a "fashion" consisting for ladyboys to go for long times with customers or was it already usual in the early 2010s (when I started mongering ladyboys)  ?

Regarding John Kane, how do you think he estimated the number of ladyboys in Thailand ? I saw sometimes saw figures published by journalists but they seem to estimate just putting a finger in their ass. I has tried to do the same in Vietnam, but the the information gave a percentage of the population longing to change sex or gender. Estimates are often wrong. 

Your suggestion that Paultain may have invented "ladyboy LTs" implies that you think ladyboys would not have been predisposed for LT prior to Paultain.   Quite the contrary: the further back we go in time the more eager the ladyboys were to LT (as were the GGs) due to the unlikelihood of multiple STs on the same night.  Moreover the further back we go in time, the more the ladyboys were considered a dirty second choice for perverts and fags and not many punters were willing to admit they sought their company, let alone be seen with them at the breakfast buffet.  So when a ladyboy found one farang who treated him like a GG prosti he would latch on for as long as the farang would have him.

In his book, Paultain likes to give the impression he understood and enjoyed ladyboys more than anyone else, but even he could not avoid casting them as his second choice to the GGs. In the book he would spend extended-LTs with the GGs (2 weeks+) but not with the ladyboys and often he would ST them only precisely because he was extendedLT  with the GGs...

 

19 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

Not me, long times were at least as common as short times in the first decade of this century.  

Have no idea.  In order to estimate the number of ladyboys, one would first need to define the word ladyboy. For example, does an effeminate twink count as a ladyboy?

You and PG made me go back to John Kane's "Lonely Sex Tourist" book and read carefully the chapter on "Gender Imbalance and sex worker loneliness", where he writes "there are estimated to be between 70,000 and 150,000 ladyboys" without giving statistical or bibliographical sources for those estimates.  He does acknowledge that since ladyboys "compete for male attention" they aggravate the gender deficit 2 fold.  He also ackowledges "young Thai men who wear make-up and dress flamboyantly could be assumed to be gay"  (the femboys?).  Ironically, he does not mention the plain gay Thai men who are not transgender or K-Pop looking...

Thailand has currently a population of 70 million, of which half 35 million are men (according to John Kane it's less).  If 1% of those 35 million are ladyboys, we would have 350,000 of them.    I think it's a bottom line estimate if we take into account the feminine looking young ones, plus the older ones who stop looking so feminine...   

Wikipedia quotes a lower estimate of 0.6 percent "of native males who present themselves as transgender women or phu ying kham phet" and gives the published source for that estimate.

Hope this helps.

R

[Pulci Gorgon]

Thanks to both of you (Pdoggg and Rom) for confirming that LT existed earlier in the early 2000s or 1990s. 

Quote

Your suggestion that Paultain may have invented "ladyboy LTs" implies that you think ladyboys would not have been predisposed for LT prior to Paultain. 

Not that Paultain may have invented LT but that mongers were not predisposed to LT before Paultain. 

 

Quote

Moreover the further back we go in time, the more the ladyboys were considered a dirty second choice for perverts and fags

 I sometimes think that some guys in another forum are perverts and fags. I ca still 

Quote

Thailand has currently a population of 70 million, of which half 35 million are men (according to John Kane it's less).  If 1% of those 35 million are ladyboys, we would have 350,000 of them.    I think it's a bottom line estimate if we take into account the feminine looking young ones, plus the older ones who stop looking so feminine...

 

I understand that John Kane's estimate is like putting one's finger in one's ass then trying to catch the wind with the finger. But our estimates are not really better either. We make smart calculations then ... we look for needles in haystacks. 

Try to count people in the street in Pattaya. If you count everybody, I'm not even sure you will find 1% are ladyboys. If you travel to Thai provinces, you will hardly see a ladyboy. I Khon Kaen, I believed the city had many ladyboys. I found only one. One like this one  was enough for me for the time I had spent in KK (great time) but this shows how tenuous our stats and estimations are.  Just an example. I had found 4 years ago that 0.3 to 0.5 of the Viet population felt like having sex reassignment. With 100 million people, I had estimated that 300,000 to 500,000 are ladyboys. Wrong. When I saw your calculation, I thought I had counted both ladies and men. But even, 4 years ago, I ad seen something didn't fit with the estimate. It's not because people feel like changing sex that will live as transgender or even show they are lesbian or gay. It doesn't even mean they are lesbian or gay. 

Let's say my estimation was 400,000 Viet ladyboys. I found a little bit more than 400. So my rate of success would be 0.1% . If I add ladyboys who are too old or too ugly to place adds, I could add perhap 1,200 ladyboys I won't see and never look for. So the rate of actual ladyboys compared to my estimation is lower than 0.5 %. Fuck our estmations and better, fuck ladyboys if you can find them. 

PS : if you have time while I'm packing my bags, who would be able to give a serious estimation of ladyboys in Pattaya only or Bangkok only ? 

[Quietguy]

14 hours ago, Rom said:

I think the words "orphan" and "monger"  should never be on the same sentence and mongers visiting orphanages for whatever reason is something that understandably raises contradictions and red flags.  Moreover, Paultain's orphanage was the one right next door to the Areca Lodge.  I am not insinuating anything personal.  Just that orphanages are not like doing charity at a church or a temple or at the mall...

I have stayed at Areca Lodge, and wasn't aware that there was any orphanage right next door to it, and I've looked on google map and can't see any.

The two orphanages referred to by Paultain are the Fountain of Life Children's Centre which is in Moo 6 Naklua, about 3 km away from Areca Lodge. The Father Ray Foundation orphanage is in Sukhumvit Road also about 3-4 km away.

LB forums and BMs have supported the pre-covid Ladyboy Water Volley Ball competitions (organised by a BM) which successfully raised many hundreds of thousands of Baht for charities including the Pattaya Orphanage also in Sukhumvit Road.

These charities are well aware of potential issues and have safeguarding and security systems in place. Visitors cannot just turn up and wander round. Their details are taken at reception and they are escorted around by a staff member. There is no contact with children, and taking photos of children is not allowed.

Your comment does sound like an insinuation, which is uncalled for in my opinion.

[Rom]

1 hour ago, Quietguy said:

There is no contact with children, and taking photos of children is not allowed.    ???   such pics exist at PY

I know I was the one who first brought up the orphanage when I mentioned Paultain's visits there but now I would ask that please please orphans and orphanages not be mentioned here at the Romscars Club again as I am not comfortable with that topic.  If anyone has anything more to say please  please start an orphanages thread elsewhere.

[deleted]

1 hour ago, Quietguy said:

Your comment does sound like an insinuation, which is uncalled for in my opinion

I read his comments as having to do with hypocrisy and attempts to assuage guilt only. Nothing else, mate.

EDIT: Oops. Posted this before I saw your last reply, Rom. Delete if you want.

[Rom]

Sylvester just mentioned a major aspect of mongering that warrants its own thread:  "assuaging [monger's] guilt."  Basically we view ourselves as good men, but at the same time we pay for sex with young empoverished partners which we know is morally wrong and extremely selfish.  So there is the guilt.  I certainly feel it.  And unlike Paultain I don't visit orphanages to assuage it, but like Paultain I seek to bond with my prostis through acts of kindness and shared experiences.  Paultain took them to the orphanage with him, and also the zoo, the temples, Koh Larng or the shooting range.  I also take them to Koh Larng and on longer trips, I organize pool parties, and treat them to concerts and fancy clubs and then I make sure to show it on my TRs in the hope that my peers will see me as a considerate fun loving gentleman, which some do and it really makes my day when they post to say it.  Others see only the writing on the ladyboys, which is the least of my sins.  Of anyone's sins.  Because paying for sex with young partners it's the greater sin.

 

[Rom]

I think this is a good time for another book review of a book I also read on my recent trip.   It's called "Thai Lottery .. and Other Stories from Pattaya, Thailand" by Matt Carrell who does not acknowledge he was ever a mongering farang, but sure knows a lot about mongering in Pattaya.  This "Thai Lottery ..." (2012) was Matt's first book ever followed by one called "Thai Kiss" about an Irishman PAUL Murphy who I suspect was inspired by Paultain's characterization of himself on his "Paultain Experience" book, but I have no evidence so I am not going to make parallels with "Thai Kiss" that would be slanderous to Paultain.

"Thai Lottery ..." is a collection of 13 short stories, spanning from 2 pages-short to 100+ pages the not-so-short-story that gives the book its name.  The author caveats that the stories are "pure fiction and any similarity to persons dead or alive blah blah blah is purely coincidental" but real people came to mind when I read it and he touched on all but one of the taboo subjects we can't post about in TH-related online Boards (that exception being the Thai Royalty).  In a few of the short stories he casts Thai policemen as corrupt sadists but since it's fiction the book is apparently allowed to sell at the expat bookstores (or perhaps the Thai cops did not read it).  Drugs invariably come up whenever he mentions bargirls, which is a reality we can't talk about in online monger boards either.  Matt Carrell's book also has a story about a punter who starts an amateur porn website and eventually shows Thai underage models and then ends up in prison and the website subscribers prosecuted in their home countries.  It made me think of a long frozen website and its controversial hirsute farang star, and that Matt Carrell's stories are likely a composite of many real life stories and characters he embellishes for literary sake.

And speaking of literary, the author is a good writer and the stories are interesting to read.   But I recommend the book only if you like such short stories compillation books, several of which had already been written and self-published by farang sexpats with literary vocations and finally the time on their hands in their leisurely days of TH exile.

I also recommend "Thai Kiss" but it is a full novel, much longer than the short stories and after a while the clichés began to turn me off.  Matt Carrell has since written 3 or 4 more books but they are not about Thailand.

 

[soiboy]

44 minutes ago, Rom said:

I think this is a good time for another book review of a book I also read on my recent trip.   It's called "Thai Lottery .. and Other Stories from Pattaya, Thailand" by Matt Carrell who does not acknowledge he was ever a mongering farang, but sure knows a lot about mongering in Pattaya.  This "Thai Lottery ..." (2012) was Matt's first book ever followed by one called "Thai Kiss" about an Irishman PAUL Murphy who I suspect was inspired by Paultain's characterization of himself on his "Paultain Experience" book, but I have no evidence so I am not going to make parallels with "Thai Kiss" that would be slanderous to Paultain.

"Thai Lottery ..." is a collection of 13 short stories, spanning from 2 pages-short to 100+ pages the not-so-short-story that gives the book its name.  The author caveats that the stories are "pure fiction and any similarity to persons dead or alive blah blah blah is purely coincidental" but real people came to mind when I read it and he touched on all but one of the taboo subjects we can't post about in TH-related online Boards (that exception being the Thai Royalty).  In a few of the short stories he casts Thai policemen as corrupt sadists but since it's fiction the book is apparently allowed to sell at the expat bookstores (or perhaps the Thai cops did not read it).  Drugs invariably come up whenever he mentions bargirls, which is a reality we can't talk about in online monger boards either.  Matt Carrell's book also has a story about a punter who starts an amateur porn website and eventually shows Thai underage models and then ends up in prison and the website subscribers prosecuted in their home countries.  It made me think of a long frozen website and its controversial hirsute farang star, and that Matt Carrell's stories are likely a composite of many real life stories and characters he embellishes for literary sake.

And speaking of literary, the author is a good writer and the stories are interesting to read.   But I recommend the book only if you like such short stories compillation books, several of which had already been written and self-published by farang sexpats with literary vocations and finally the time on their hands in their leisurely days of TH exile.

I also recommend "Thai Kiss" but it is a full novel, much longer than the short stories and after a while the clichés began to turn me off.  Matt Carrell has since written 3 or 4 more books but they are not about Thailand.

 

Sounds like an interesting fellow.

http://mattcarrellbooks.com/

http://www.thebookbag.co.uk/w/index.php?title=The_Interview:_Bookbag_Talks_To_Matt_Carrell