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The Future of Asian LB's Mongering


Zeppie

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I would like to start a topic that requires a bit of crystal ball scanning, regarding the future for SE Asia LB mongering.  what is held for the future of TH (the #1) current location and where do you see is the up and coming Wild west frontier, before spoiled by popularity and rising cost and regulations.

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I would say the Philippines. If AC wasn’t such a shithole city I would probably be there now. But I still might pack my bags and get out of dodge. Exchange rate of my US dollar is as good if not better in the PI.

Another benefit of the PI is the complete absence of immigration woes. No absurd visa runs and tea money BS in the Philippines.

My perception is that Thais generally really don’t like Westerners. We are merely tolerated because of the economic benefit. Whereas the Philippine people really do like Westerners more. 

I have been in Pattaya, Thailand only a few weeks and I have noticed a few things that might just prevent me from visiting here in future:

1. Lack of LB talent. Obviously this is COVID related and the talent might improve in the coming weeks as high season begins. And only a few venues exist in Pattaya worth visiting—Katoeys R’ Us and Delirious. There is great talent at both locations (primarily KRU) but nothing like pre-COVID.

2. The level of shameless, bloodthirsty, money-grubbing has increased dramatically, it appears to me, by both Thais and many non-Thai business owners. This could be a misperception on my part because I have been away so long. But, I do get the impression both Thai and non-Thais in Pattaya are desperately trying to recoup COVID losses overnight. While understandable to some extent, it’s not a smart way to do business in the tourism industry. It has really turned me off and many people I talk to share my concerns.

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1 minute ago, ciobha said:

Interesting observations Sylvester. Would you say the attempts to recoup the losses are carried out in a blatantly obvious manner, or in a covert way, i.e bill padding etc.?

A few dates have attempted to ask for B1500 ST, saying the price had been previously agreed upon, one from Delirious and one from KRU. I flatly refused and informed them there would be no future business between us, as I coldly escorted them to the door.

I made a hotel stay deal in central Patts, which was not honored on the day of check-in. I will disclose more about this later, when I am out of town.

I have not experienced any bill padding and I have been vigilant. I did have one gurl get herself a drink on me, claiming it was a misunderstanding ( it was total BS). I was having a good time and didn’t challenge it. This happened at Delirious. Not that big of a deal, really. Some of these girls are completely broke and need to eat.

I will share more experiences later when I can’t be bonked on the head walking down Soi Buckaroo.

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Thanks Silvester, interesting observations of the current status.  PI does seem to have the opportunity, to become so much more, not sure what's holding things up.  The talent is there.  But, what about the less talked about, i.e., Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, Malaysia, etc.    

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3 hours ago, Zeppie said:

I would like to start a topic that requires a bit of crystal ball scanning, regarding the future for SE Asia LB mongering.  what is held for the future of TH (the #1) current location and where do you see is the up and coming Wild west frontier, before spoiled by popularity and rising cost and regulations.

 You've had pieces of answers in Rom's thread "It's official : I'M BACK" . You can find 3 posts about Rom's observations on the field. First post    Second post     Last post .

I had added my own comment in the next page. The most important paragraph is

 I had also explained -before Covid- (...) that there seemed to be a crisis in bars in BKK. You (Rom)  measured the results for a month. I had already considered that Patpong was no longer interesting (end of 2016) and you (Rom) confirmed this area's declining. 

Quote

In 2019, I had posted in the Canuk forum a rethoric and longish post dealing with mongers4G. To make it short, I explained that the hippie generation mongers gathered in bars to share information, then used forums in internet becoming "mongers2.0" (as journalists say). I also stressed that many "mongers2.0" were still linked to the bar system that is about to collapse. But mongers2.0 are already old fashioned since mongers4G will replace them. You (Rom) believe that ugly, thickos and low-income sexpat won't be able to do it any longer. I believe those who will use 4G apps to organize their dating will be able to do it. Apps are now ready in Thailand :  Wechat and Thaifriendly, Line and Tinder to a lesser extent. (Documented in a TR posted in 2017).

SE Asia is large even if China is going to close for at least a couple of decades. 

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I've only been back here for 2 months now, and already I'm questioning the validity of my decision to do so as it certainly does seem like they're trying to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. For example, a week ago I enquired about longstay in an apartment - 6500 per month apparently. Went back yesterday just to confirm and the price has risen to 9500 (along with electric@ B10 per unit and water@ B500 a month). 

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5 hours ago, Pulci Gorgon said:

 You've had pieces of answers in Rom's thread "It's official : I'M BACK" . You can find 3 posts about Rom's observations on the field. First post    Second post     Last post .

I had added my own comment in the next page. The most important paragraph is

 I had also explained -before Covid- (...) that there seemed to be a crisis in bars in BKK. You (Rom)  measured the results for a month. I had already considered that Patpong was no longer interesting (end of 2016) and you (Rom) confirmed this area's declining. 

SE Asia is large even if China is going to close for at least a couple of decades. 

But where is the next TH, if it will ever exist.

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personally I believe there won't be another Thailand...a perfect storm of fun for several decades but now I think coming to an end.  Covid mostly accelerated what was already happening, the slowing down.  The economic crisis caused by 2 years of Covid is like the coup de grâce. The older Guard never liked having to whore out the country to get ahead.  Now they have industries aplenty and more and more educated younger gen to staff them. (or so they seem to think).  Thousands of small independantly owned businesses failed recently and I'm sure many got snapped up for pennies on the dollar and repurposed or bulldozed. (I just saw another video of MBK which now resembles a bland clothing mall, and that's not so small). Scores of street vendors have been swept off the streets and (if they could tolerate it) stuck in one of the new "street food" food courts in malls.  I'm sure the waterfront of Pattaya will soon start showing more and more non sexy venues as the years pass.  

And girls predisposed to throw their legs up will be doing so, more and more, on Only Fans and who knows what new sites come up.  Fewer see P4P as the only option to making decent money.  Airfares and other costs when you land are only going to get worse.  They are never going to give up this STUPID Thai math that if your hotel is half empty, DOUBLE the rates.  It's BAD now from what I can see, they're going to bait and switch if they don't just outright quote a highly inflated price.  I see even Cambodia seems to be going this route. It takes much more work and research to find a good price, at least what I have seen.  I think the best way will be to secure a squat for a night or two then spend your first days on the ground walking around talking to faces at reception until you find a sane one.   All this means the wild and crazy, easy, sleazy FUN times everywhere are grinding to a halt.  You'll still find that but it will be in fewer areas, for much more cost.  And the place you had fun at last year might be a mall or condo when you go in a future trip.

just my two cents...or, forgot, inflation....my $2

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I agree with some of what has been said above, namely as it relates to TH economic development and the availability of higher income opportunities outside prostitution.  I also agree that there are changing social attitudes towards prostitution with greater stigma being associated; and towards dodgy foreigners enjoying the country and the natives on the cheap.

But the main cause of why cheap and plentiful Thailand mongering is coming to an end is: DEMOGRAPHICS, DEMOGRAPHICS, DEMOGRAPHICS !

Fertility rates are way down to 1.5 children per Thai woman.  I repeat: 1.5! which is lower than almost all countries in Western Europe!!!  It is below the population replacement rate. It may even go a little lower, but what it means for us is that there will no longer be much of an inflow of newcomer youngsters into the prostitution business.  On the contrary, with only 1 or 2 children per family, the parents will invest in their education and seek to safeguard them from being exploited as prostitutes.  In the Philippines the same is happening, and that's why in both countries the GG bars and go-gos are already a shadow of what they were 10-15 years ago in terms of the number and quality of the GGs.  Most are now older and the young ones are very picky and expensive.  The situation is the same for the ladyboys in TH.  Not so much in the PH where they were repressed for too long and more are starting to come out.

I just came back from Thailand and the Philippines and there are still plenty of prostis around, and I expect such availability to last at least another 10 years on the assumption that the number of prostitutes keeps falling at a rate of 10% per year from current levels (with prices rising in tandem).  But 10 years that's just my guess.  Could be 5, could be 15...

However long it lasts, there will also be the growing competition from mongers from other parts of the world:  the Arabs and Indians in Thailand and the Koreans in the PH are already very much a demand pressure factor, and more will arrive in the future as they too get used to partying in Pattaya and Angeles.

Moreover, the demographic shrinking will also make other things that we love about Thailand more expensive.  Cheap maids, taxis, laundries, street food, all that is also going the way of the dodo.  Or the way of Hong Kong and Seoul, which also used to be mongers' paradises.

My advice is to enjoy while we can and use all the skills we have acquired over the years to place ourselves ahead of other mongers in competing for the most attractive prostis still in the business.  

Here are 2 World Bank charts that show the declining birth rates, in case you doubt my stats:

fredgraph (1).png

fredgraph.png

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Interesting forecasting JSG and Nostraromus.  When you consider the Millions brought into the annual economy and the fact that politicians find ways to enrich themselves, that less developed country would attempt to implement the TH model, until the point of saturation.  It's a sure fire way to improve economic conditions, some more than others.  

 

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I see it slightly differently from Rom's point of view. Demographics is just one side of the "problem". Thailand is experiencing economic development, what impacts demographics but also their way of life and their need to resort to prostitution. 

We've seen that scenes like Pattaya and BKK tend to collapse. I don't believe in a complete collapse. When many bars close and freelancers are back home, such cities will be less and less interesting while prices will increase. I don't know how long it will take and I don't really care. 

 

IMHO, in the next decade, you can find more opportunitie if you start tracking ladyboys "fresh from the farm" in their provinces (You will then discover they don't come from a farm but from middle or low class families). You will then have to drag and search in Issan. If you like the countryside, it can be a pleasant experience. The north and northeast of Thailand are likely to become places to visit. But the main difference is that you won't sit in a bar and see your prays coming to you unless you're really lucky. 

Since Thailand is no longer so attractive, there will be interesting opportunities in other SE Asia countries. They already exist but not so many mongers have tried the experience : Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines (I guess the Phil will last longer than Thailand), Vietnam, Cambodia (but it seems that Cambodia never manages anything), Indonesia (That'll depend on their economic development) and maybe later China (but too much remains unknown in China. As long as the country is lead by a dictatorship, the ladyboy scene will remain too low). 

Out of SE Asia, India might become an interesting ladyboy scene. One has to enjoy living there. 
If the UK remains unable to improve their economic situation, I guess there will be bars growing like mushrooms in cities like Brighton with English femboys and shemales. This would be fun, we'll be too old (not to say dead already when this happens). 

Whatever happens, I don't think we'll find new scenes like Pattaya or BKK between Nana and soi cow boy in another country. However, we'll still find pleasant scenes if we accept them the way they are. 

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I'm afraid my second answer explains my opinions but not facts. Sorry, I hadn't much time when I wrote and posted my first response.

I believe that freelancing will supplant bars. I also believe that Asian police(s) will crack down street freelancers. So prostitutes of all gender need to use internet apps for their business. I also noticed that Asian people, particularly low class people didn't develop an internet culture on PCs as we did in the "farangslands" as we did in the 1990s and 2000's. They started mainly with smartphones and Apps. So they use 2.0 websites (such as Thaifriendly) using their smartphone's browser, but they are fond of 4G Apps (Line but also TF App). 

The same phenomenon occurs in several SE Asian country. In each country, trends are different from other countries ( they prefer TF, Line and Wechat in Thailand, they use Pinalove - I don't think Pinalove has developped an App yet- and WhatsApp in the Philippines) but  "strategies" remain similar : a dating website, an messenger App and sometimes Apps to detect someone in the vicinity (Thaifriendly, Wechat, Tinder,Badoo). 
Once meeting ladyboys in bars is no longer attractive, Thailand will lose a key of their competitiveness. The market will be wider and more open. This is why no one can say what country is likely to win the new competition. Neither is Thailand doomed to lose.

All of the above is just my opinion. When I see pics and videos of Pattaya after Covid, I find the place fairly creepy. I can imagine many other places have a chance. If ladyboys mongers want to win in this kind of a new deal, they (we) need to exchange fair and serious information. 

 

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Bumped into a gay mate today and he told me that half of the sexworkers at the Jomtien Complex are Cambodian.  

Have no idea what real Cambodian historical fertility data looks like as i'm sure there is no good data from the Khmer Rouge era.

But Cambodians and Burmese do lots of jobs that Thais don't want to do for the wages offered and I reckon sex work is slowly entering that category.

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2 hours ago, Pdoggg said:

Bumped into a gay mate today and he told me that half of the sexworkers at the Jomtien Complex are Cambodian.  

Have no idea what real Cambodian historical fertility data looks like as i'm sure there is no good data from the Khmer Rouge era.

But Cambodians and Burmese do lots of jobs that Thais don't want to do for the wages offered and I reckon sex work is slowly entering that category.

Now that's a handy insightful piece of information, there P-dog.  Just think if the country decided to keep the economy home, there could be a whole new world to explore.    

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On 10/25/2022 at 3:51 PM, Pulci Gorgon said:

Once meeting ladyboys in bars is no longer attractive, Thailand will lose a key of their competitiveness. The market will be wider and more open.

started happening some years ago if you ask me.  Maybe 5 or more years.  Bars were never much of a draw for me, don't like em.  In 2009 I found the Guess bar to be comfortable with many of the BM's dropping in for a chin wag and to see who they might barfine that night, maybe spot new talent. Low key.  After it closed I stuck mostly to online contact, tho Dark Side had some brief shining moments. 

I believe the demise and lower attendance at many bars began pretty well before Covid.  Thinking it will return to the former glory days is wishful thinking.

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