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Online marketing for a bar is a no brainer IMHO. Jai Dee already pointed out the exact example of that for the original Guess Bar. Jim has also pointed out some of the pitfalls in doing this kind of thing and it can often open up negativity for all manner of reasons. I think this is one of the main reasons, the bars are moving more onto social media although nobody should overlook forums, but their 'influence' in getting new customers is diminishing. Its diminishing as threads get cluttered and lets face it, most of the guys who have been around a while, already know of the venues. But where this comes across badly is if its a venue he does not like, for whatever reason. Obsession in Pattaya is a prime example - way too much negativity from folk who freely admit to never going there. What i do find amazing is how guys are glued to these threads though. Its almost like they have no other life and seem to be online continuously and to keep posting comments. Its just a picture of a girl working in a P4P bar. The forum activity has a tendancy to cause issues and allow opinionated posters a window to make sarcastic comments even on threads/venues they freely admit to never visiting. That is hysterical IMHO and again will be raising questions in owners minds as to what is the point of it all. Same question could also apply to forum owners and their eagerness to get involved or even too involved for the greater good. Its a fine balancing act but blanket updates everyday are frankly, overkill. A bar does not need it and the danger is that the bar is accused of hype by the very people who spend their life absorbing the updates. As I say, you could not make this stuff up - nobody would believe it. One thing that does make me laugh out loud is people saying the "hype" did not match the experience. I have no idea what they expect from this. I swear some guys are so taken in with this stuff, they expect the exact same thing to be happening in the bar at the very moment they walk in. Kind of like, a picture gets taken of girls all on a pool table. The guy has an expectation when he walks in, that the girls are really sat on the pool table seductively waiting for him to walk in. But does it work for the bar benefit? Yes and no. aside from this above, I have been asked to slow right down on CIB updates. June is now getting hacked off at the sponsors who keep sponsoring the girls out after seeing their pics and then facebooking them etc etc. Again, its almost make believe how seriously some people take this. Forget blogs as well - while being done with the right intent to entertain and communicate with the community at large, you just get the usual suspects bitching on and on. The same guys who are glued 24/7 desperate for new content, or at least content they feel is what they want to read. Unfortunately, for many, they cannot seem just to skip over things/places they do not like/frequent. Maybe its as much a jealousy issue in so far, as when great nights are talked about (by the people who were there), you get some poster sat back somewhere in Farangland trying to rubbish it. same with big check bins and bell ringing - people seem to resent other guys being able to do it. For all they know, this guy may have saved up the whole year to have one blowout 2 week holiday. But no, he is online ridiculed as a mug for ringing the bell. His money, his choice is my simple view. But lets never forget, all the updates can do, is to encourage a visit to the bar. its then down to the girls within the bar, as to the chances of that customer staying/returning based on how they find the place. But for the forums - perhaps they should be asking themselves why posters stop posting and also why bars have mostly given up. And what are they planning to do about it? I see all the forums are dropping in terms of content and replies. Many posters who have neutral opinions have basically just given up and let the online bullies rule the roost, although that may reflect other forum and not specifically this one. I can think of half a dozen expats alone in BKK who no longer post. To me this is water of a ducks back and I will happily give as good as i get but for many its just falls in the too hard basket as they realise its just an internet forum talking about guys wearing a skirt and makeup.

if this could help....

I thought this was more like it.

I always want to find out if they are a stander or sitting when they piss, Only a small percentage will allow me to view their style, therefor I have to ask them. From my findings about 70 percent sit. Thanks to a handy mirror placement I caught this one standing on the rim to do her hosing.

Lots of food for thought here but just want to touch on two things that I agree with 100%I never understood why guys care so much about how other guys spend their money. It's their money, up to them whether they are a Cheap Charlie or LDOP using the pejorative vernacular. One of my best friends really enjoys splashing the cash around in GG gogos and tipping the girls way more than he could "get away with". But he is having a great time, he can easily afford it, wants the staff and management on his side, and is also a genuinely nice guy. He is no dupe. Even though he is quite wealthy he says he could not afford to have these wild times in a bar in Vegas. Spending 10K baht for a great time works for him but he wouldn't feel right spending 10K dollars even if it was possible to get that same experience in the States. OTOH, I'm careful with what I spend, and try to have a good time in a much more cost effective manner. Why should anyone give a fuck about how my buddy or I spend our money? As far as online promotion, the goal as Mardhi said is to get a customer to check out the bar, and then it's up to the bar to deliver an experience that keeps people coming back. For most customers, that probably means friendly, attractive ladyboys. Although some customers are looking for an overall good vibe where they can hang out with their mates that also has some eye candy around. Since each customer has his own list of what matters to him which can change on a nightly basis, no bar is going to please everyone.

@JustSameGai Hahahaha it`s very quite indeed around the trip report and pictures , hope i can boost some energy in the systeem and get the folks posting again when i get back with my load of pic`s and up to date info..... @Siamsam Yes , those where some cutty from Cebu , did not see them for a while , hope they are all oke , lost track of two of them...... @Sustra Thankx for the update , some fine class girls there with a cute boobs.... Greetz , Stealth

Nice update Sustra.

FWIW when I went to PP in December I used BKK Air and had the same experience. I noticed almost no one at the visa counter as I looked back from immigration where I was entering with my e-visa. However there was no line at immigration and I sat three rows from the back of the plane (the other two seats next to me were empty). That left me with the impression that perhaps many of the passengers were Cambodian and went to different immigration booths?? Plus the plane wasn't packed so that helped with the lack of crowding. It would be interesting to hear the experience from someone that flew to PP on AirAsia recently. Everytime I've flown into PP on AirAsia there has been a fair size queue at the visa counter and they have been doing e-visas since at least 2008. I would assume the e-visa is getting more popular. But in the first seven years I used it and flew AirAsia it didn't seem to be gaining much traction. But perhaps that has finally changed. BTW if you fly BKK Air and belong to their fee FF club you not only get 10 kg of extra baggage as PD mentioned you get to use their lounges at BKK and PP even on their lowest fare tickets. You don't need to have any special status in their FF program. At one point there was no water fountain at the PP airport after security. So you could fill your water bottle in the lounge. But not a big deal if on BKK Air as they actually manage to serve you a real airline meal on the one hour flight. So you get something to drink anyway. I am under the impression the non tourist visa for long stay is called a business visa. It matters not if you are not doing any business. BKK Air charges more for a one way flight than they do for one leg of a round trip. BKK Air is usually a bit more expensive than AirAsia expecially if you catch a big sale of AA. But it seems even more expensive if you are booking one way. However the advantages of flying out of BKK instead of DMK were worth a bit extra for me. I took the Bell Bus from Hua Hin to Swampy and was too lazy to make the transfer to DMK with my suitcase, carry on and laptop. So if the price is reasonably close I take BKK Air. But I always have to pay for a fair amount of baggage on AirAsia as I travel heavy. I also pay for a seat in the exit row for extra leg room as the seat pitch on AirAsia is only 29 inches (BKK Air 31 inches). So I pay for some extras others might not on AA making it more expensive. That helps make BKK Air more competive price wise for me. I did once wait until almost the last day to book a one way from PP to BKK and it was actually cheaper on BKK Air (with my extra fees on AA). Neither were cheap but AA had jacked their last minute prices up even more than BKK Air.

It's been a while coming but looks like I will manage to get back some time in June! Early June I hope. Anyway just wanted to ask if anyone else was planning to be in Pattaya around the same time? It's been almost 2 years since I last managed out and may need some upto date local guidance if it's available :) My plan at this point in time, is a couple of days in Bangkok before heading down for 7 days in Pattaya then onto Singapore. Sorry for being so quiet on the board but please believe me when I say some of the postings on the site have managed to keep me on an even keel this past 20 months :)

And so it ends....

The German Dentist on the Jomtien Road. I asked the Penthouse one time who they recommend. I was very pleased with the place & the service. The owner, Michael I think his name is, isn't allowed to perform the work but he oversees everything his dentists do. I know lots of dentists get recommended, everyone has a preference but based on my experience I don't think you will get any better. And I thought the cost was most reasonable. Cheap actually but it was 3 & a half years ago. Heading towards Jomtien you can't miss the huge sign THE GERMAN DENTIST in silver letters across the building front. It's on the left hand side of the road before you get half way. I'm sure you will be OK at most places but the management at the Penthouse told me not to go anywhere else. Do with that information what you will. Good luck.

Hoy, Jaidee, I resemble that remark!!! In fact I reckon that was very much how I ended up last night. Yikes.

Well, I survived 2 days of it, soaking wet but relatively unscathed. Kind of figured there was no point moping about and tried to get it into the spirit of it, when in Rome and all that!!! But, although it was for a few hours, it certainly does get on ones nerves after a while. I think if it all stopped as darkness fell, it may make things more tolerable.

Thanks for all of this info. I will arrive in Phnom Penh May 20 and will be getting a 60 tourist visa for LOS. Cheers.

photo take last night for all you Pattaya swots. I will show another segment later.. only one chance though

That takes me back. I can well remember the feeling of wonderment from the tales brought home by my father after he visited the Chicago World Fair. Amazing stories about the latest advances seemed like fairytales to a child who thought a transistor radio must be the limit of what was possible in miniature technology. I recall vividly how we sat around the table as he described in detail all the wondrous things he saw. And we all went quiet as he told us in hushed tones of the most amazing product of all. A machine that could print out something that had been written in another town. It was a Fax machine & we all sat there struggling to grasp the concept of such a thing. The collective feeling of having seen the future among the family sitting at the table was almost palpable. Afterwards we sacrificed a goat & three chickens & danced around the fire for hours.

This method has been around for a while - one of the most famous cases was a German transsexual - Kim Petras. Her doctors prescribed the antiandrogen - cyproterone (Androcur) when she was around 12. She then had SRS at 16. The drawback with this treatment is that antiandrogens are quite expensive, but it is probably the best treatment. If the young child changes their mind, stopping the antiandrogens is still reversible, but protects them against the masculinizing effects of testosterone. This process is not used in Thailand because of cost. Female hormones via the use of cheap oral contraceptives are available without prescription (although recently regulations were passed to restrict this). Young transsexuals can easily get these at young ages 10-11, etc. My lb gf thinks this is probably too young to start, and feels the antiandrogen treatment is better - but as cost is prohibitive probably few if any Thai lbs use this approach.

I reckon you are right Sustra, guys who have been around the scene for a while just do their own thing for the most part and pop into the various LB bars as the mood takes them. Exposure on the forums may not influence their decision making too much.

I saw some girls I recognized on soi 7

Sheesh seems Neil's Mini art is more popular than the LB bars...............for me the attraction was the meat pies best I have had since leaving South Africa over 3 months ago.........aroy indeed! CONCLUSION: Probably a bit of an anti climax for those wanting more news on the LB bars because I had decided I would really like the last night with Keo.........having a few drinks .going to dinner ( I had not had any Khmer food yet)and taking it from there.......by this time I had established a good relationship with a Tuk Tuk driver who that day took me everywhere I wanted and despite telling him to take another fare was always waiting outside no matter how long I took.......I think basically for his service from 12 am to 12 pm was less than $20 booked him for the ride to the airport $7.hE showed me where he ate,,,but was closed and recommended a restaurant for good Khmer food. Although Keo said everything was up to me when I suggested trying Pretty Woman Bar she did not seem that keen saying it's mainly Korean's that go there.So we finished our drink at Ben Pub and left for Khmer Saravan restaurant on the river road close to 178 Street.Just in time happy hour 2 Draft Angkor $1........Fish Amok delicious $3,99. Keo had not been to a LB show so I wanted to find Classic but my trusty Tuk Tuk Driver did not know it and another maintained that it had closed down,armed with Pdoggs address for it we wnt looking but never found it, I t seems the Cambodian LB's are similar to Thais in that they do not like a lot of fuss so I decided to go back to 258 Street where I had spotted a pub which had it's own micro brewery.....Munich.very up market with lounge type seating inside and open air deck,OMG they also have a beer special after 9 pm buy 2 @ $1.95 each get 1 free lager or stout,Only tried the Lager very not clear but very drinkable.Unfortunately once the band started playing any conversation was impossible without shouting so sometime after midnight we walked half way down 258 street to my Guest house.......... Overall a great trip but a bit short...........the few LB's I met were lovely in everyway..........perhaps a bit shy and not keen to suggest places to go in case you don't like it..........swear quite a lot when talking to each other and I suspect know each other quite well.......food,drink and accommodation cheap.........would recommend staying close to the action ie 104 to 136 street. The pay for LB's in salons is incredibly low...quoted $100 pm or $30 pm +food and accommodation.........In bars they seem to either get none of the $10 barfine or $0.50 however the $1,50 per ladydrink they get mounts up and one GG I chatted to was quite happy on her earnings from that and not interested in going with customers. Looking forward to my next visa run.................. If the mods or xyzzy feel my posts have hijacked this thread in any way please feel free to move them into a separate trip report. Pics attached of ..........Candy Bar...........Top 10 Bar...........Big Mama Bar & Matida Pub next door ......Munik Poster ........Tuk Tuk Driver Rom 016 597 951 only 9 digits on mobile numbers in Cambodia

Actually BB this place reminded me of you and PBG...........just a tad cheaper......2 Jugs of beer $3.......the Tuk Tuk driver took me there as a recommendation for good Khmer food.so naturally had to wash the very tasty Amok down with a couple of pints......